Batdude and Kahn's Match #1: Kris Blaze/KM vs. psycho gundam/Charlotte DeBel
Team Kris Blaze/KM
Shaman/Talisman II: KM
Beta Ray Bill: Kris Blaze
Captain Comet: Both
Team psycho gundam/Charlotte DeBel
GL Kyle Rayner: psycho gundam
Tangent Superman: Charlotte DeBel
The battle will take place on Europa (a moon of Jupiter that has been modified to allow for a breathable environment).
- Each team will have access to a "team lounge" measuring 15x15 meters with a couple of couches, satellite tv, refrigerator, washroom, and an assortment of snacks and drinks for 5 minutes prior to each fight where they can use their prep time. . No extending of that prep time via any means (ie speed force or time manipulation).
In the start of the prep time we have Kyle use his ring to create 5 extra rings (all get recharged using power battery). He keeps 2 extras to himself and gives the other two to Tangent Superman. One goes to Zatanna “just in case” opposition’s magician is attempting mass magic negation. Tangent Superman telepathically learns the Kyle’s experience with the rings from his mind, simultaneously mindlinking the team.
Then we’ll have Tangent Superman and Zatanna use telepathy and magic to do two things to Kyle’s mind- one is to have him enter trance-like state, focusing totally on combat, and another one is to make sure NOTHING but the telepathic messages from the other two enter their minds.
In that altered state of mind he starts creating constructs- he creates 5 semi-independent constructs of Daxamite Speedforcers (no GL rings, though, as that alone is taxing, luckily we have extra rings to use). Speed sharing then happens, giving everyone in our team the superspeed (including the perception of the world in superspeed).
Zatanna then casts the “reverse physical damage” spell on the constructs, making them reflect any physical damage done to them back on who did that…making them nice dummies for sadomasochistic practice. The opposing team being masochists.
Just before we enter the fight, we have Kyle and Harvey use the rings to surround the team (minus constructs) into airproof bubble-type shield. Zatanna casts a couple spells on the insides of the bubble- one makes sure no magic gets into the bubble from the outside, the other- for general purposes of the fresh air within the bubble. The bubble gets cloaked via telepathic illusions and light bending Invisible Woman-style, performed via rings.
The Daxamite speedster constructs will stay outside the bubble.
That part is prep, the rest is opening battle plan. If it's invalid, I would ask judges to discount the "battle" part. If yoi've read that carefully, the prep part and initial battle strategy are marked separately.
A question in return- how exactly did you have the access to the battlefield in prep when it was said that all we're having is 15*15 team lounge (about rain and powder covering the battlefield). The prep is NOT on the battlefield itself. The rain and powder movements should be happening in opening seconds of the battle as that's where we get to SEE the friggin' battlefield. Unless you want to make it rain in the lounge..
Official post #1. Debating for characters Tangent Superman& Zatanna
And discussing their prep in general.
First of all, our opponents seemed to forget that thing in their opening strategy:
We're NOT spending our prep on the planet's surface, and I'm afraid Beta Ray Bill's ship is a)too big to fit in the space of the team's lounge; b) is sub-standart equipment which is not allowed in there (the only exception made is for GL's batteries). I don't think ship (unlike Stormbreaker) fits the description unless Batdude and Kahn have allowed that specifically. Also, there's no summoning rule affecting BOTH the assistance of spirits for Shaman and ship summoning for Beta Ray Bill.
Rain, spreading powders etc would happen in the opening seconds of the battle.So basically the only things I can accept are: a)mindlink; b) Bill communicating with his hammer; c)fog of invisibility and shields; d)TK shielding
The rain and powders can be done in the battle only, and since our team has got the edge in speed against yours... I see Zatanna's astral projection doing that to Shaman even BEFORE he pulls out anti-flying powder and the rest http://img81.imageshack.us/i/41484284xe8.jpg/
AND can be done to Beta Ray Bill causing him to reverse into mortal form.
Captain Comet is also busy with Tangent Superman who is at the very least telepath in his class... if not greater. His clairvoyance is countered by ours...Tangent Superman can play that game as well. But in general spying on the opposition during the prep is not allowed in tourneys.
Official post #1 Initial Attack:
As the match starts Talisman calls forth the wind spirit which has the ability to carry individuals thousands of miles in less then a minute1, which ultimately is being used to disperse the handful of baubles which are a powerful item used to defeat Ranaq “and just for a single wrenching moment the universe itself seems to blink out of existence, like a soap bubble suddenly impaled on a thorn2." and the Dust from the Realm of Dreams that puts anyone to sleep3. So your team will be experiencing extremely powerful attacks as well falling asleep from the dust and with the wind it can cover the entire area instantly.
If you do somehow go into astral form you merely sealed your doom as the Binder-of-Spirits (Talisman II) would quickly put you away and your host bodies would all be but destroyed. All of Talisman spells can be done literally in seconds. Not quite sure why your calling Talisman attacks slow as their said to be instant, and he can even “keep up” with Northstar. If you tried to instantly go astral form and attack you would become the newest member of the team.
Heck, Comet could make short work of Kyle Rayner as Comet has done so to Power Ring, Hal Jordan and Sinestro. Kyle isn't bringing anything to the table Comet can't easily counter or reverse on him. Just to note as stated Comet's willpower > Power Rings & Sinestros
Counter Attack post: Astral projection=Automatic lose
First off its Talisman II not Shaman, which is Shaman basically on steroids and a huge miscalculation for you guys you also say his spells and items are time consuming…their not, far from it. A huge hole in your strategy is the fact your relying on using astral projection which against Talisman II is pretty much an automatic lose. As the astral form is the “spirit” of their host. Why is this bad you may ask? Well Talisman is the binder of spirits meaning he has complete and utter control over ALL spirits, meaning you just became his servant. Also if you think he couldn’t do it Talisman II has taken over the sprit manifestations (astral forms) of the Great Beasts so your team would not be above him to control4.
Zatanna attack=Power up for Talisman
Another HUGE error in your tactic is having Zee going after Talisman directly. As Talisman power grows stronger with increased magic in the area, and can simply just cancel it out. Here even Talisman I even when she was vastly inexperienced at the time not like Talisman II who is a proven magician does it with ease. The actual Talisman they wear is what gives them this ability.
Also sorry to say Zee’s magical senses don’t compare to Talisman. Not only does he have his own magical senses, but donning the Talisman of Power, Elder Gods actually continuously feed him information.
Captain Comet > Tangent Superman
First off T.S is not at least Atom’s equal, and T.S is “Tangent Superman who is at the very least telepath in his class... if not greater”. Not quite unless you can back that up as stated and shown CC is one of DC’s TOP telepaths. T.S hasn’t shown Comet’s range or overall power…ever. Heck, even if T.S was greater (which he isn’t) Comet has beaten stronger telepaths then himself due to his experience.
-Astral projection becomes an automatic win for the team as Talisman can control astral forms as he has done so many times
-Zee attacking Talisman with magic would only be faulty as any magic only makes Talisman stronger, and he even has the capability to simply cancel out any magic spells making Zee useless
-You have no real means to counter the handful of baubles or the sleeping dust
-C.C is a superior telepath then T.S, and has vastly more experience over T.S and CC’s ability to adapt to attacks giving him the edge between the two.
-Comet if he wanted to could make short work of Kyle with ease, which Comet has done so to Hal Jordan, Power Ring and Sinestro (as outlined in the opening prep post)
First of all, I will point out all the glaring weaknesses in the opposing team’s strategy. Also, many of the faults with the characters, and not just our respected opponent’s plan. Kyle, has a really hard time maintaining sovereignty over his own weapon. He is highly susceptible to overridden and drained, just like the boy can be mind-controlled.
With all these things going on, what’s to stop possibly the strongest telepathy in DC or one of the best energy manipulators on Marvel Earth from simply taking control? Nothing. Unfortunately for Kyle, Tangent Superman is not comparable to Comet. Even the bare basics of properly shielding his own mind, seem to be too difficult:
1 - http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/...s/tsr_12_08.jpg
Let’s take about defences people. What kind of defences does Bill have here? Not everybody reads Thor, and those who do, do not necessarily read the ones with BRB in ’em. So before we get to the good part, the offensive strategies, let’s just see what kind of punishment this guy is capable of handling.
Bill has the best durability of the bunch here. His opponents are simply not capable of taking this kind of punishment. However, Bill does not actually have to take all of these attacks. His hammer, Stormbreaker, is Mjolnir’s brother with the ability to absorb near limitless amounts of energy. You should also note that he does not have to directly aim his hammer at the opponent for it to absorb the energy. The energy is pulled into the hammer, which minimizes effort and makes it impossible to flank or get any attacks past him. When Bill is absorbing, his team-mates are covered as well.
1 - http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e...-524-022-16.jpg
Also, let’s refute the claim that Zatanna can somehow reverse Bill back into his original form. This was a gift from Odin, who placed an enchant on his hammer. This was a reward for carrying out a mission alongside Thor, not a restriction like Thor initially had to suffer. Zatanna can not reverse Odin’s spells, simple as that.
1 - http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/...r_V1340_p20.jpg
Things get better, Bill does not transform back to his pre-cyborg shape, he transforms TO it. That shape only exists because of Odin’s enchantment. So she wouldn’t be turning him back into anything. The only way she could do it, would be offensive matter manipulation. While we’re talking, let’s have a look at BRB’s form WITHOUT Stormbreaker:
1 - http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/...rbgh_02_022.jpg
- Bill can absorb any attack.
- Bill's enchantment cannot be reversed, since his Korbinite form is no longer his standard and his human form does not exist in space.
- Bill's control over energy trumps that of Kyle Rayner.
- Bill's too strong and powerful for either of these member to match in a firefight.
On Captain Comet vs Tangent Superman. Tangent Superman can adapt as well, altering his body via molecular TK http://img406.imageshack.us/i/13fn0.jpg/
He is supergenius and equal of Comet in terms of raw power at least. I bet he knows enough to understand his tactics. They both are creme de la creme of DC TP hierarchy.
Zatanna has already shown that she can "deny access" to several minds even for the most powerful telepaths. Pray tell me, does Comet beating Gorrilla Grodd (via clever move, I admit) shows that he's >> Despero or Martian Manhunter. In short, while trying to breach our shields, you have good odds to forget about your own shielding.
But I'll let my colleague deal with that.
Official Post #2 Clarification: Speed & Hand casting
Not sure why you say Talisman has normal reaction as he doesn’t, as stated his magical senses allow him to “keep up” with Northstar. In addition Talisman isn’t even human anymore so you can stop with the human reaction time garbage. So there goes your theory. Once again your making ANOTHER inaccurate comment about Talisman, as you said “No free hands=no casting. And no pulling stuff.” you do realize Talisman doesn’t need to do free casting right? Probably not, but the point is Shaman like Zee can cast spells just by talking for instance saying “shush” he froze time (which is banned here) and for a period even when Talisman lost the Talisman of Power and became Shaman he wasn’t using his pouch anymore to cast spells. Talisman II when he got the Talisman of Power didn’t need his pouch anymore as he could do everything without it. You also said IF he absorbs the magic? No no no he would, even just being close to magic augments him you’re stuck now *See battle post #1.
Spirtis are not summons
You indicated spirits are summons, when their not. That’s like telling a magical user he can’t cast a wind attack as that wind attack is a spirit. Even Zatanna’s freezing attack that you wish to use would be considered a spirit as “to the Sacree, everything that exists--even lifeless stone--is animate, invested with a spirit force that can be called upon to give aid.” They always exist and basically it’s a way to give a “face” to their magical abilities such as causing plants to radically grow (which once again isn’t a summon, but is called a spirit of growing things). So if you ban the spirits you pretty much will have to ban every single magical spell cast or any kind of matter manipulation. Hell the spirit of wind is basically a wind attack, which Shaman has done so countless times seen here throwing China Force into a portal1. Makes no difference at all as you’re still going to be knocked out from the dust and seriously rocked from the baubles. Khan and Bdude approved it as well
Your neglecting the fact that handful of bauables and the dust from the realm of the dreams is still in the air and would put you all into sleep either from the dust or being knocked out from the baubles. Also going astral form and trying to attack the Spirit-Binder has just made Zee the newest member of our team. Comet as shown can make short work of Kyle Rayner if he wanted to as he has done to Sinestro, Hal and Power Ring *See prep post. Even if T.S did go after Comet first he would be quickly over-powered by Comet's sheer power and vast experience. T.S doesn't have the feats to compete with Comet.
Counter-post Astral Projection=Automatic lose
Ummm…controlling her astral projection is a big no no? How again are you saying that as that scan you showed doesn’t prevent her from being controlled by Talisman or even come close to it. Was the deity of choas the spirit-binder? No so you're post was pointless. Hell, Talisman has controlled the Great Beast and the Gods of the Arctic. Do you know who they are? “The Great Beasts were embodiments of death on Earth when it was first commencing to come alive”. It was stated "the Great Beasts rule over death and decay, and can implore death and decay as a weapon against mankind and “come from a time long before good or evil, for that matter, right or wrong. They're hellstorms, nothing more or less--living breathing tornadoes of mystical energy--consuming everything in their path without restraint or remorse2”. Hell just one Great Beast (Neooqtoq) was taking on Gods from 978 past and present Imperial Worlds and was winning. Great Beasts > demonic diety of Chaos. Heck even Shaman (not as Talisman) has beat Carcass, "a disciple of Khaos, who has defiled Indian burial grounds to start the Unmaking, which could destroy all reality”. Once again you’re outmatched.
As noted “Talisman is a mortal channel that the gods can fight the evil ones3” and is a key player in rules set out by Eternity himself, Zee isn’t overpowering anything. Also you still have neglected the fact that with Zee attacking Talisman you just made him drastically stronger. You’re actually arguing the Spirit-Binder wouldn’t be able to control Zee’s soul even though she has controlled skyfather spirit forms due to for that very reason while a human magician would somehow be beyond the control of Talisman? *Snickers* you’re overpowered and outmatched.
Captain Comet > Tangent Superman…still
Also Captain Comet once again is stated to be one of the most brilliant minds in thr DCU. He’s on par with Briainac, who is above T.S sadly and T.S doesn’t have many feats to back up being a true rival for him. Comet as shown can play 200+ moves in advance, you’re not going to surprise him3. Another intelligence feat is Comet was stranded on a barbaric planet and is forced to take action if he wishes to escape. She he appears to a cave-man intellect race to teaches them to be so civilized they reached an inter-stellar space program in just 6 MONTHS! Even another Brianiac who is revealed is being smarter then his father was shocked
Yes that feat for T.S where he noticed he was probed from another earth is good, but Comet did that years before him *shrugs* Next.
Also are you forgetting what Captain Comet has done? Show me Martian Manhunter doing easily what Captain Comet did? Why bring up Grodd when I didn’t, but sure that works better for me as Grodd has beaten MM before in a telepathic battle once. Also Grodd has even took control over Zee before. Try again. Why would be forget about our own shields? We have commented on why your attacks wouldn’t even work against us. Your neglecting the fact that handful of bauables and the dust from the realm of the dreams is still in the air and would put you all into sleep either from the dust or being knocked out from the baubles
-Talisman II isn’t human anymore, he is more of a spirit as noted connected to the Spirit World and plus his magical senses he doesn’t have just human reaction time.
-Talisman doesn’t need his hands or his medicine bag to cast spells
-To say Zee can overpower the Spirit-Binder who has controlled sky father spirits and as noted has complete and utter control over ALL spirits is down right laughable
-Still neglected to answer if Zee attacks Talisman you’re actually powering him up
-Still ignoring the sleeping dust and handful of baubles in the air which would put your team to sleep in more ways then one.
-Captain Comet > T.Superman
-Comet can plan 200+ moves in advance
-Captain Comet’s telepathy is breaching your defenses
-Spirits are not summons