Batdude and Kahn's Match #3: Team JaketheBank/Smurph vs. darthgoober/Blair Wind
Team JaketheBank/Smurph
Sersi: Smurph
Sinestro: Jake
Cyborg Superman: Both
vs.
Team darthgoober/Blair Wind
Silver Surfer: Goober
Dr. Doom: Both
Eradicator: Blair
Location: Flat planet with an indestructible trampoline-like surface that extends out into an infinite plain and has an Earth-like atmosphere.
Prep Time:
- Each team will have access to a "team lounge" measuring 15x15 meters with a couple of couches, satellite tv, refrigerator, washroom, and an assortment of snacks and drinks for 5 minutes prior to each fight where they can use their prep time. . No extending of that prep time via any means (ie speed force or time manipulation).
I think the hilarious part in all of this is that had their write-up been condensed to the legal limit, it would have actually looked a lot more competent. This is really just long-winded inanity.
Anyways, let's get to it...
Let's pretend for a second that all their processes of powering up their characters actually worked.
Surfer now has half of his power cosmic (note that in order to give Doom half, he has to lose half, as the scan shows), and full kryptonian genes.
Let's take a look at any of our characters. Cyborg Sinestro, for instance, has those same kryptonian genes, twice the energy manipulating abilities that Surfer has (the ring gives him essentially the same power set, but his is fully charged from the power battery), all the technological super powers that Cyborg Superman's power set gives him, the mind of a super computer, the most powerful weaponry available, and is being constantly healed to full capacity by Cyborg Sersi.
Not to mention that all of our characters have the complete experience and knowledge necessary to use their new powers to full capacity, while our opponents are using a feat of showing somebody a mental image and learning a woman's emotionally traumatic history to claim that they can transfer precise, but vast and complex experiences to each other. In ten seconds. Lol?
The point that I'm making, is that what we've done with our team is very similar to what they've done, but our methods are far more concrete, and our experiences are actually transferred. Furthermore, we have whole areas that we excel in that they don't really come anywhere close in, such as all the nifty things we can do with technology and telepathy. In the areas where the reverse is true, such as the use of magic, the edge that they claim to hold matters little to the outcome of the match, as I'll go on to show.
Their "telepathy"
If someone showed you a scan of a being telepathically sending a thought into space with the hopes that someone, somewhere might receive it, how long would you estimate that it would take him to transfer his life experiences to two specific people with enough clarity that they could then use his powers as effectively as him?
Would you think it even possible, much less possible in 10 seconds?
If someone showed you a scan of a being showing something similar to telepathy, with the only feats being mind controlling someone, and learning about a woman's history (though not necessarily with the clarity required to use powers effectively), and always requiring touch, would you immediately jump to the conclusion that he could establish a far-distance mind link between three people that he could then use to transmit vast and precise knowledge? In ten seconds?
Our opponents goal is to transfer the complete knowledge and experiences of the Silver Surfer, Doctor Doom and the Eradicator between each other so they can successfully use each others power sets to the maximum effectiveness.
In addition, they intend to transfer any relevant knowledge of their opponents (us) between each other.
They intend to do this in ten seconds, but lack any feat to support that such a goal is even attainable, much less in ten meager seconds.
May I remind the judges that super speed does not in any way extend the 5 minute time limit? So when we say that they intend to figure this out in ten seconds, it is ten speed-irrelevant seconds, as are all their other claims about time.
If you judges are extremely generous, you may believe that they can transfer experiences well enough that Dr. Doom won't BFR himself when he first attempts to use kryptonian powers. This is no easy process, however, as this involves a complete transfer of a lifetime worth of learning, and all that they have to support this claim is Eradicator picking up on how a woman felt emotionally throughout her life. Not the detail that they require, and that feat alone took an unindicated amount of time, and is only one way- there's nothing to support that such experiences could be transferred to Doom, nothing to support that a three-way mind link could be set up, nothing to support that any of this could happen in any short amount of time.
And yet this is absolutely necessary for Goob and Blair to not embarrass themselves.
Normally such issues would be trivial and not worth finding proof of, since they're fairly standard for any telepath- but they don't have a telepath!
If Surfer was a legitimate telepath, sharing his plan here should have been easy- but note that he says that he needs to give away half of his cosmic power to do so-
It wasn't even precise info transferred, just him mentally telling someone about his plan. If I verbally told somebody who had never driven a car before how to, in ten seconds, would you trust them at the wheel?
I think it's fairly clear that either they are fielding a team of inexperienced power houses, or they're spending their whole prep and then some attempting to prevent that situation. Certainly nothing supports 10 seconds- hilarious.
Kryptonians
So far, all they've proven capable of is taking off Doom's armor.
They then allot 15 seconds of their time to cutting Surfer's power supply in half, giving the other half to Doom, and then doing a complete DNA re-write of Doom.
15 seconds? The cut-Surfer's-power scan actually shows that it requires meditation. Even presuming that that requires little time, to suggest that these processes will only take 15 seconds put together, when every supporting scan they provide appears to take more than that time on its own, is just silly.
It's bound to take even more time than that as Eradicator will likely have to perform this operation on his own- they haven't shown the telepathic feats to suggest that they'd be able to quickly communicate to Surfer the necessary changes they'd have to make to Doom's genes.
On that note, their only scans supporting this claim show Eradicator unable to properly turn stone into Kryptonian (unless I'm reading that scan wrong), and show him deliberately messing up some genes- not exactly proof of the precise work needed to pull this off. Especially on top of the Surfer-power-switch, given only 15 seconds, possibly less since much of their time will have already been eaten up by the telepathy debacle.
Sun Lamps
So, now that they've presumably split up Surfer's power properly, they're going to take their half-powered Surfer, and have him recreate the energies from two suns, condensed into the size of Doom's armor.
In ten seconds.
We know Kryptonian power levels are dependent on the amount of exposure to the sun's energy- notice how much power levels spike given a sundip. This presumably means that they need the amount of energy given off by your average sun in order to gain the average power levels.
So, to make this work, they require the sun's energies. Their solution?
"Surfer, knowing the necessary sunlight types due to Eradicator's knowledge, uses transmutation to turn Doom's armor - aside from his forcefield generator which we're going to reconfigure especially to resist the gravity present in a Black Hole - into a series of super high intensity "sun lamps" that emit the same solar energy as both a yellow and a young blue sun."
To recap:
In ten seconds, Surfer, at half power, is going to reconfigure a force field generator to do something completely different and much more powerful, and is then going to replicate the power of two suns within an object the size of a person.
Could Surfer accomplish this even given full power?
In ten seconds?
Also, let's not forget that they mention they require telepathically transmitted info that Surfer likely doesn't have.
Frankly, this is just ludicrous. Even pretending that they can do any of the things that they've claimed so far- a HUGE leap of faith- believing they can do it within the suggested time limits is a whole other level of ridiculous.
Even if they managed to pull this off, it would leave Surfer powerless, unable pull off everything else they've committed him to doing, including making multiple black holes, protecting against every single type of radiation, shrinking and growing the team, creating spatial energy waves, transmuting anything they can, etc
Summation:
Telepathy
They have no feats involving actual telepathy. They have nothing showing they have the skill to even make a mindlink, much less transfer life experiences (REAL experiences, not just a memo about what they felt like, which is all that Erad has done in their scan). They propose they can accomplish this feat within 10 seconds. Lolz.
Kryptonian DNA transfer
A sheer lack of evidence. They have no evidence that they can transfer the DNA knowledge telepathically, they have no evidence they can perform this precise a process on a human, they have no evidence they can accomplish this within 15 seconds.
Power Cosmic transfer
This is intended to be accomplished within the same 15 seconds that they allot for the DNA transfer, despite it actually requiring meditation. Otherwise appears to be the only thing so far that they can actually do.
Sun Lamps
Haha.
Creation of two suns, condensed into an object the size of a person, given 10 seconds and half of Surfer’s power.
The end results after only a third of their prep:
They’ve already run out of time.
They’ve stripped Doom of his armor.
They’ve stripped Surfer of half his power.
They’ve drained Surfer of his power.
They’ve provided no reason to believe that they’ve given Doom anything other than a power set that he has absolutely no control over or experience with.
Have I left anything out?
Last edited by Smurph on Jan 6th, 2010 at 07:53 AM
So, the opponents strategy is to take the purpose of Doom's devices, generalize it to the extreme, then claim that he can make all of it in a couple of minutes.
They are presuming that the telepathy worked, that they have power supply left enough to accomplish this, and that they actually have two minutes left to spare. I'll leave that up to the judges to decide, though currently the evidence seems stacked against them.
The devices:
1. an invention capable of absorbing every type of energy, ever. no scans were provided. apparently Doom, now that he has the power cosmic and kryptonian powers (which he is probably spending the whole two minutes learning how to control), is capable of simply inventing this in seconds because he wants to. his energy absorption devices in the past have all been capable of absorbing some time of energy, but never anything, and rarely in the amounts that we're capable of delivering.
2. Psi refractors to block any psi attempts. As they show, Doom once made a device capable of blocking out a thuggish mental blast from an opponent with no obvious power level or feats to add credit that the device is worth anything.
In a matter of seconds, Doom is going to extrapolate this device to include blocking out any mental influence of any sort, of any power level.
Perhaps our opponents suspect we can't read the scans they provide.
In any case, I have little doubt that with only this prepared, Sersi will have a field day destroying their feeble mental defenses.
3. Since Doom once figured out how to channel fear into rage, it should be no problem to turn fear into a completely different emotion, relying on manipulating different parts of the brain. It should also be no issue that he's attempting to use it on his own team despite apparently blocking out any Psi attempts, that his team consists of a great variety of different species, including Kryptonian, Human, Cosmic-Powered Herald and Robot, whose emotions would be controlled completely differently than by whatever his original devices targeted, and that he is expected to twiddle his fingers and accomplish this feat.
Note that we don't need these devices to work anyways, as their function is irrelevant to our rings functioning (which is that the opponents are trying to tamper with here by messing with their own fear), but it'll be hilarious when Doom ends up sending their emotions completely askew because he had no time left to do anything precise.
4. Doom once made an electronic energizer to manipulate one opponents force field, and he made a concussive weapon to tamper with Sue Storm's cosmic force field. Obviously this indicates that he should, in no time at all, be capable of constructing something to tamper with any force field utilized by any comic character ever, right?
I don't think I should need to point out how inane this claim is.
5. They alter a force field generator to resist the pull of a black hole. Obviously, since it didn't take long for us to write, it should take no time at all for Doom to invent.
Seriously guys, I know he's smart, but if he was capable of inventing such devices in two minutes (which is time he doesn't have anyways), then he wouldn't be allowed in this tournament because he'd have invented himself beyond herald level, and stayed there.
Here's the kicker though- even if they were capable of such feats, and even if the judges agree that this is all remotely plausible, then there is nothing- absolutely nothing- to stop us from simply doing the same thing mid-match.
Our opening move is to mentally scan any tech they're using, which is something we're all completely capable of, with Hank Henshaw's power set. This is a character capable of manipulating tech on the level of the Source Wall. He's abducted technology that leaves Dr. Doom in the dust, especially things that Doom's expected to invent on the fly in two minutes. It is absolutely no issue for us to simply read what these devices are, and create them ourselves using any of our power sets- we're all capable. We can then nullify your forcefields, tamper with your emotions, and resist your precious black hole with ease.
If the opposition seriously believes themselves capable of these feats, then we can simply replicate them as fast as we please.
Anyways, now that their self-amping is shown to have little credibility, let's move on to the methods of attack that they propose:
No Contact Zone
To quote Kahn
Pretty much says it all. This device has no mentioned method of attack, it just kills things.
Luckily we have pretty much the best defenses in the game. Multiple fully charged Qwardian rings, Cyborg Superman (who has survived everything from the Source Wall to galaxy destroying blasts to the Omega Effect), and Sersi's ability to turn anything into anything else (coupled now with kryptonian reflexes and a super computer mind).
Also worth mentioning- in the scan describing the device, it's mentioned to work through genetic manipulation. If this means it actively manipulates our genes, it's illegal. If it means it works by manipulating reproduction and generations of individuals on Krypton, it clearly doesn't have time to operate. Plus, genetic manipulation is Sersi's bread and butter, and Cyborg Sersi would know everything about the technology thanks to receiving Hank Henshaw's genes- so she could just modify our team to be immune and could even set up the same device to work on our opponents.
They entered the battle armed with all sorts of tech. Against Cyborg Superman. Silly, really.
Magic
As mentioned above, their telepathic defenses are extremely limited.
As mentioned above, Sersi is an incredible telepath.
As they show in their scans, the use of the bands of Cy involves intense concentration.
On one end of the field, we have Doom, attempting to move at FTL speeds, utilize the power cosmic, maintain 5 seperate bands of Cytorrak (can you even cast more than one at once), utilize various technology, and attempt not to kill himself or his teammates with the kryptonian power set that he has absolutely no experience with.
Simultaneously he'll have to block out Sersi, which is no easy feat. She stalemated Exodus, after all. That's power.
The likelihood that he'll be able to accomplish any of those things with her mentally assaulting him is fairly low. The chance that he'll be capable of maintaining multiple bands of Cyttorrak, any one of which already requires much concentration, while doing all these things, while shutting her out of his head, and not getting utterly destroyed by our offensive players?
No chance at all.
This goes for all spells that he could potentially cast. Our team is faster, harder hitting, more capable, and has a powerful telepath on it- all things that pretty much nix magic.
The spatial energy wave
So, despite the fact that Surfer's already spent all his power, he's now going to attempt to create a spatial energy wave to take out Sersi.
Sersi's at the back of line, playing defensively physically and offensive mentally. So Surfer would have to go through two opponents that are physically superior, possess twice the energy manipulating capabilities, getting constantly healed, and that are armed with DC's most potent weaponry.
Sersi's biology no longer has such a weakness anyways, since she's now Cyborg Sersi.
Cyborg Sersi also possesses a Qwardian ring that would nix such an attempt.
Blastaar's blasts were bio-energetic, and capable of disrupting bio energy. Surfer's blast is spatial energy, and completely different.
Cyborg Sersi is fast. Faster than necessary to simply move out of the way, and fast enough to simply turn the blast into something else, either with her own energy manipulating powers, or those of the ring.
Summation:
Tech:
Impossible for them to pull off in time. Even if you give them that ridiculous benefit of the doubt, we'll just take their tech and use it against them.
No Contact Zone
Utterly ridiculous. They hope to use a device with no precise claim on how it works, and claim that they can kill us with it because it worked slowly over generations to imprison kryptonians.
Get back to us when that's anything more than another idea on the drawing board.
Magic
As shown in the scans, requires concentration. They're also claiming to do things with magic that Doom's never accomplished before, and they're claiming to be capable of these things while performing a myriad of other activities and being mentally assaulted, with no real mental protection.
Magic is a non-issue.
The anti-Sersi wave
Sersi is no longer Sersi, and even if she was, there are 101 reasons why Surfer, now nearly powerless, would no longer be able to pull off such an attack in time to do any damage, and why it wouldn't even do damage if it reached her.
Team JaketheBank/Original Smurph aka Team Awesome Post #3/10
Well, my partner, OGSmurph will be handling specific areas of our oppenents prep and intial attacking, leaving me with my own issues to touch up on. Let's get this underway, ladies and gentlemen.
Black Hole: Well, this one is pretty easy. Unfortunetly for our oppenents, black holes are nothing to our team. As many of you are well aware of, a rookie Green Lantern is able to traverse if not out right nullify the effects of a black hole.
And if a rookie is able to accomplish this, imagine if you will, a team of beings all weilding Qwardian rings, all of them armed with the knowledge of Sinestro. Black holes? Pfff. Screw black holes.
Doom: Let me get this out of the way right here. Doom removing his armor in favor of a lessened connection to the Power Cosmic and Kryptonian powers was a huge mistake. There is absolutely no way that Doom will be able to cast magic, weild the Power Cosmic, and use his Kryptonian powers to their full advantage against our team. He's going to be dealing with two primary attackers, each of them armed with Kryptonian speed and reflexes AND unimaginable computer like analytic processing AND Qwardian Rings. Not only will everyone on our team think MUCH faster and with much more clarity than Doom, they will be able to easily physically outmanuever him and most importantly, outfight him. I'm sure our oppenent's will attempt to counter this point with the fact that he's augmented with the Power Cosmic and has Kryptonian speed/reflexes of his own as well as the fact that he, indeed, Doctor Doom, but it's not going to be enough here. He's operating on a divided and less effective portion of the Power Cosmic and will be attempting to invoke magic in a futile attempt to bind us. And this is generously assuming that Doom, in all his grandeur, will even be able to reach this state of power to which our oppenent's claim he can during prep time.
Rings: Let me also educate our oppenents as well as others who may be unfamiliar with the Qwardian Rings. The Qwardian rings are fueled not by whether or not our oppenent's are feeling fear, but rather on the weilder's ability to manipulate fear and instill fear in the general sense. We could care less if you won't be shaking in fear from our team. Our rings are still going to be operating at full power. Because of the proximity to the center of the Electromagnetic Emotion Spectrum, the Qwardian rings are considered to be equal in power and function of the Oan power rings. And since each member of our team is going to have the mastery and finesse of weilding this weapons that Sinestro himself does, it's a safe bet to assume that they can acomplish the greatest high end feats of the most experienced of Lanterns.
Speed Advantage: I touched briefly on this above, but let's further delve into the most basic of advantages we have over our oppenents. With our Kryptonian DNA, we have at our disposal, FTL movement and reaction speed. And this isn't random DNA; this is DNA from Kal-El himself here, a being who, at the time, already had an adult lifetime of solar absorbtion under his belt. That alone puts on at least an even playing field with a team of pseudo-Kryptonians (if they can even accomplish that in their allotted prep time) and a divided portion of the Power Cosmic. Now, factor in the machine precision of our very minds, operating at levels far beyond what most supercomputers can even hope to achieve. We're going to be thinking at speeds faster than what our oppenent's are going to be capable of doing, and with our crystal clear clarity and ability to process pertinent information faster than their team can, it's a massive advantage in our favor. Now, if that wasn't enough, factor in the rings we weild.
Augmenting our own natural speed with our weapons clearly makes us faster off the bat. What's worse? Because of our superior thinking speed and thought processes, our weapons, which operate at the speed of thought, are going to be too fast to handle, especially for a team that purposefully weakened themselves for an unlikely, unwise, and unreachable advantage.
Strength: Not only our we going to be faster, but it can even be argued that we are going to be physically more powerful as well. In addition to Kryptonian strength (and not just any Kryptonian mind you but Kal-El himself), which is, for all intents and purposes, incalcuable, we're also armed with Kryptonian alloy which is equally impossibly strong. To make matters worse for our oppenents, we going to be able to use our rings to form constructs which can easily amp our physical might in the form of melee weapons.
Coupled with our speed, we could very well physically thrash the opposition if and when it comes to close quarters.
Energy Manipulation: Energy manipulation, and to a certain extent, matter manipulation is something that is going to play heavily here, and by both teams. Unfortunely, Surfer halving his power to Doom - who will somehow juggle the Power Cosmic, his own sorcery, and Kryptonian powers to the best of his ability - makes this aspect of the match overwhelmingly in our favor. Each member of our team possess first and foremost, a variation of what many consider to be the most powerful weapon in the DC Universe. Everything from hard light contructs to bursts of energy to...well, whatever we can imagine (within reason of course ) is at our fingertips. Not only that, but we have the ability to form weapons out of the blue, morphing them from our own body, something Henshaw is notorious for doing. Will be able to calibrate weapons on the fly DURING battle itself and with speed and computing ability that isn't even funny...well, yeah, okay, it is kinda funny but that's not the point. Here are some examples of Sinestro's impressive energy output and various ringslinging feats.
Here, Sinestro is shown able to rip out the Ion entity itself from Kyle with minimal effort. Three of his Corpsmen, who can assume are nowhere near as proficient with the rings as Sinestro is, are shown containing the powerful being in a construct. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...rdan/scan40.jpg
While not overtly impressive in comparison to what each of our characters can do, Sinestro with little effort, reforms Hal's fighter jet which was destroyed in spectacular fashion. Considering that Sinestro had just arrived on Earth and was faced with primitive technology he hadn't encountered before, this only illustrates what he can do unaugmented by other sources and with littler effort. Giving him the ability to move and think even faster than he normally can opens up a nasty can of worms for our oppenent. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...dan/GL32017.jpg
-Rookie GL's can survive and even close black holes with minimal effort. Three ring weilders all of whom are operating on Sinestro and Henshaw's level of experience in using them are not going to be bothered by that crap.
-Dr. Doom is a serious weak link to the team and will be promptly dealt with by our well oiled machine of a team (pun only marginally intended), leaving the rest of their team to be dealt with at our leisure.
-Our rings are fueled by our mastery of fear, how to instill it into others, and understanding of it, not by whether or not our oppenent's feel fear. They can be as brave as they want, it won't make our constructs weaker or energy attacks less deadly.
-Our tremendous speed advantage thanks to the dynamic combination of Kryptonian speed and reflexes, super computer thinking and processing speed of the highest order, and Qwardian power rings.
-Our strength advantage thanks to the combination of Kryptonian strength and alloys and constructs designed to increase the effectiveness of melee attacks, should we choose to fight in close quarters.
-Our superior energy manipulation thanks in part to built in tech and weaponry of our cyborg bodies and Qwardian rings compared to their divived power cosmic and "kryptonian" genes.
Sorry about the holdup but we're having to scrap part of our prep because we apparently exceeded the cap on a couple of points. We'll start posting our stuff as soon as we know for sure what we have to work with.
__________________
Last edited by darthgoober on Jan 6th, 2010 at 04:41 PM
Wow we spent all that time typing up an opening posts and apparently out opponents didn't even take the time to read it thoroghly so I'll correct several major errors before moving on. The character count limits prevent me from quoting everything Smurph and Jake says and still be able to go over our points to so I'll forgo responding that way and just hope people can keep up for now, and get into specific responses later on.
Errors in our precieved prep.
1. We're not giving Doom half of Surfer's power, we're giving him about 10% of it. In the instance I posted of Surfer sharing his power he said he had to give up half to create a "cosmic link", but our telepathy/cosmic awareness combo gets done before that even happens so that kind of link isn't necessary for us to share info from Surfer.
2. Our sunlamps aren't "mini suns" they're sunlamps and the amount of power it would take to create that kind of thing is trivial.
3. Surfer's not altering the forcefield generator while he's making the sunlamps. We mentioned the generator only to explane that we were setting it aside, we specifically talk about altering the generator in the next section.
2. Doom as a Cosmic Kryptonian- It's only going to take a couple of seconds to change Doom into a Kryptonian, period. How do I know? Well first of all because a less experienced Eradicator's already cloned Supes's body from rock with ease. I know he's not my guy though so I'm not really going to try to defend his half of the workload and I'll just focus on Surfer's contribution. Fact of the matter is Surfer's Power Cosmic is perfect for powermeshing as he's demonstrated with the Molecule Man(which we've already shown), Dr. Strange, Odin, and I think Her(the female Warlock) as well. So as good as Erads normally is, he's going to be getting boosted by someone who can evolve an entire planet billions of years in a matter of moments or a body for Quasimodo in seconds...
And as for the time necessary for the power transfer I'd like to know how anyone interprets the 3 panels the process took as being a significant amount of time. Surfer spends a panel getting ready by focusing on the guy, then you see the power reaching the guy, then Surfer says the process is complete.
3. Our Sunlamps- Dude they're lights, just lights. I mean they are high tech, high powered lights, but does anyone really think it'll be difficult for Surfer to pull off(even at 90% power) when he can create anything he can imagine? I mean the guy can do something like like create a house with fully functional electronic equipment from nothing in a second...
...and people think he's going to have a hard time with lights?
4. Surfer's power reserves- Transmutation isn't a big drain on Surfer's abilities. Hell in the scans we posted where he evolved that planet he was TRYING to burn out his power reserves and was unsuccessful in the effort. Not only is it not particularly taxing for him, he's going to be replentishing his own lost energies throughout prep. I mean the guy's not like a GL who has to set aside a minute to summon his power battery and say an oath, his energy gets replentished constantly unless he does something EXTREMELY draining.
Our Devices
1. You need proof of Doom knowing how to create energy absorbers? The guys history is littered with them... I can post examples if you need, but really? That's almost as bad as someone asking for proof that Hal knows how to make energy constructs.
2. The guy who's attack Doom's device stopped is the Overmind...
3. Did you not see everyone who got effected by Doom's machine? There were numerous humans with exotic physiologies, the Super Skrull, and I don't even know who all else. But if what you guys are saying about the source for a Yellow Ring's power is accurate then it doesn't matter, I was just making sure you couldn't somehow amp off of our potential fears.
4. Forcefields are pretty standard. Since Doom's done it at least twice now(and maybe more, I'm still checking on that) I think it's safe to assume that he can cook up something. It may not be universally effective against every possible type of forcefield, but I think it's safe to assume that Doom could modify one to mess with MOST types of force fields with some help from his teamates and Kryptonian speed.
5. I can see how people might question this one but you see at least one suit of Doom's old suits of armor was powered by a small black hole, so he obviously knows how to manipulate/contain their effects.
*Note*
I can't for the life of me remember where I read about the mini blackhole in Doom's armor, but I'm working on tracking it down now. I'll post a scan to support the claim as soon as I get it or I'll tell everyone to dismiss it myself if I can't find it before the end of the match.
And now with that out of the way on to the offense takes the field...
Questions
1. Sersi transmuting herself and the Avengers, but where did it say that she turned them into "Kree" exactly? I mean I may have overlooked it and/or it may be covered elsewhere in the book(forgive me if that's the case), but where did it say that she did anything more than alter their appearance and clothes?
2. Assuming that she is somehow able to pull off altering their DNA into that of a Kryptonain, how is she going to grant herself and Sinestro Cyborg Supes's powers? Since he's physically identicle to Supes outside of being a cyborg we can't really say it's not really a cellular or genetic effect, so when did she gain the ability to "grant powers" on a whim?
Other stuff
Apparently bats and Kahn have decided that we won't be penalized this round so...
Anyway on with the battle.
Now I've heard lots of funny stuff about how "supperior" out opponents team is to ours, and I must say it's laughable all around. Stonger/faster.... . Our team features a blue sun amped Fortress mode Eradicator and guys who are equal to a blue sun amped Supes. Standard Supes is good so our opponents obviously have firepower, but we've seen how yellow sunamps boost Supes and blue sun energy is even more effective. Yeah they've got power rings from Sinestro, but we've got energy absorbers and and as this scan demonstrates...
...energy absorption is something that even the best GL's are highly vulnerable to. Between Doom's devices and Surfer's own absorption skills the rings of our opponents team will be powerless in short order. That means no force fields, no constructs, no amping via rings, etc. They be trying to have 3 Kryptonians(who will be inherantly vulnerable to absorbing themselves)take on 3 yellow/blue sun amped Kryptonians, one of which is the Eradicator in Fortress mode to boot. Which means that they virtually no chance of even SURVIVING more than a minute or so of open combat, let alone "winning".
And if by some chance Sersi IS able to transmute her own form into that of a Kryptonian(something that's yet to be proven) itn means that when Surfer uses his Cosmic Awareness in the opening second of the match we won't be picking up the frequency of energy that harms Eternals, we'll be picking up that she's Kryptonian and the vulnerabilities of that particular race, so the "anti Sersi" blast will just use k-nite(probably gold K-nite since that the most effective) instead.
So to sum up
1. All our plans from prep will work.
2. Our energy absorption abilities spell doom for our power ring wielding opponents who's bodies are now fueled by solar energy.
3. With three yellow/blue sun amped Kryptonians on our sid(including Fortress Mode Erads) we're the most physically impressive guys on the field BY FAR.
4. The opposing team has NO counter for Doom's magic. Once he sticks someone in the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak they're going to be stuck there until we get around to finishing them off.
5. Even if by some off the wall chance our opponents were able to match us in strait up confrontation and most/all of our prep didn't work we'd still win because we've turned it into a numbers game. Even if she somehow survives the "Anti Sersi" blast, Sersi is going to be thrown from the area by our spacial energy wave for at least a few seconds which makes the fight 3 on 2 in our favor. Doom sticking someone in the Crimson Bands is to put yet another of their team out of comission which will leave them with one. Now Cyborg with a Sinestro ring would obviously be a tough opponent to take down for most characters, but it's going to be 3 on one against supperior opponents and he's not going to have a chance in that scenereo.
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Last edited by darthgoober on Jan 7th, 2010 at 12:02 AM
I think the ability to stroll through three posts of debating, reply to something in every post, and counter absolutely nothing is somewhat remarkable.
A convenient claim to make now.
You didn't show a sharing of cosmic awareness. You showed Surfer concentrating for a few seconds, and showing Thing a mental image.
A few seconds = 1 solitary image.
How many seconds = the details of everything Surfer knows regarding everything Power Cosmic, and his knowledge of the Eternals and Sersi?
Since his sharing takes up only about a third of the 10 seconds, we can assume that Blair and Goob have extrapolated the ability to concentrate and share a mental image, to mean that Surfer can basically transmit the details of his history since becoming Galactus' herald, with what, one more second?
Hahaha.
Fair enough, though that isn't what you said in your post.
You're right though, the power to create a lamp would be trivial. The reason being that the power that a lamp outputs is absolutely trivial.
They say the sun gives out every second about the amount of energy that mankind is estimated to have output up to this point.
Can you imagine how many lamps that is, constantly, all over the earth? And that accounts for an incredibly small fraction of a percent of what mankind uses every second.
The energy required to fuel kryptonians is so ridiculously higher than what's output by a household light. I mean, seriously? Why do you think it takes energy drainers so long to suck the energy out of Clark's cells? Why do you think that kryptonian power increases as exposure to the sun does, through a sundip?
The energy that a blue sun outputs would be even more, and you're suggesting to create both.
Please, if you have proof that a few watts will power planet pushers, feel free to share. Otherwise, let's accept that the kryptonian element of your plan is a dud, and move on.
You need to show three things:
1. That Surfer can transfer his own memories and experiences, as well as accessing those of others, with enough clarity that the recipient can alter his behaviour and learning as if he himself experienced these things, thus allowing for the recipients of his powers to not kill themselves with the powers you've given them
2. That he can quickly and easily filter through years of data in both his head and others to be able to exchange relevant information without wading through irrelevant memories
3. That he can do both of the above things with the third of the 10 seconds that you've allotted him.
You have yet to prove any of these things. I brought up these points previously, and you posted more bushleague telepath feats.
It's akin to me showing Juggernaut punching somebody, then claiming that he has the martial prowess of Captain America.
Ten seconds is not a lot of time to work with. 5 minutes would be lots for most telepaths, but you have yet to post any feat of merit.
True, he's even glancing through someone's memories in those scans, but you can even tell by the depiction that he's not experiencing those things, only watching her experience them.
I could read 1000 superman comics, it doesn't mean I'd have any skill with kryptonian powers if I got them tomorrow. I haven't actually experienced anything, despite watching Clark experience them from birth.
We already covered how you won't be able to actually use Doom's nonexistant kryptonian powers, due to not being able to power them up and not being able to transfer any memories to Doom, but I suppose nothing is stopping you from wasting even more time turning him kryptonian.
So, let's hash out why this, like every other item in your prep, will take significantly longer than you estimate.
You've taken scans, such as Eradicator telling a story that took place over what appeared to be a couple of days maybe, and assumed that a freeze frame of one action- turning the rock into a body- wouldn't take much time, despite the lack of indication of time. You've shown many transmutation feats that took longer than 15 seconds, and one that took less, and it was performed by Surfer, not Eradicator. Surfer may not even have the necessary knowledge since there's no actual telepath on your team to transfer that knowledge.
Other than that, it appeared in the scan to be as if Eradicator actually got the transmutation wrong- he said something was wrong with the eyes?- I may be reading that wrong, but it's a point that has yet to be addressed.
You've already claimed that your telepathy transfer will take ten seconds, which is clearly false.
You've also claimed that Doom can invent five devices he's not once shown before, that are far superior to devices he already owns, within the space of two minutes.
I haven't even gotten into how you've claimed that you're going to completely rewrite and remodel a kryptonian doomsday device in 30 seconds, or how you are going to outfit your entire team with ridiculous defenses in 30 seconds, based off of scans that all take longer than that.
The point is that you're already running incredibly short on time. You've also diverted Surfer's power and stripped Doom of his armor, which will all only hinder your efforts.
There is absolutely no way you're going to fit in all those things, and find time to do this, based on little to no evidence that you can accomplish it in any short amount of time.
I only really attacked his power reserves when you claimed to be pouring the energies of two suns into Doom's armor.
Now that you've rescinded that claim, and we've accepted that the kryptonian powers will simply remain dormant for the match, the big drains on his powers are simply that you're giving part to Doom (useless, now that he has no armor or alien powers), and that you're attempting to transmute everything within sight, create black holes, etc.
I'll let the judges decide exactly how taxed he is- we do know for certain that he's more taxed than any one of our team members though, who are all wielding fully charged power rings.
Hey, I don't need proof that Doom can make an energy absorber.
I need proof that in a few seconds Doom can draw up the plans for a device that can absorb any energy, ever.
Or, barring that, that he has devices to absorb any energy, ever.
You see, if he is missing types of energy, we'll know immediately- we're auto-synched with every element of tech on this battlefield. It'll be no problem for us to instantly know what you're missing, and auto-adapt with any of our power sets for whatever energy you're not looking out for.
So you've proven capable of blocking a manifested bolt of mental energy from the Overmind.
When you don't have a physical target to hold up your device against, as Doom does in the picture, you'll be SOL. Sersi doesn't even bother with physically manifested mental energy most of the time- her specialty is illusions, and she's fully capable of any sort of psychic intrusion.
Right, different physiologies which Doom would know about and prep for, I would assume. It's Doom. Prep is his thing.
There's absolutely nothing shown to indicate that it works on every being, ever. Especially since by this point you already claim to have manifested psychic blockers. I assume this device would have a way around your blockers, if any judge actually believes that there scan blocks anything other than a mental bolt of energy. If you did somehow make mental blockers, and this device works around them, then we, through out tech-tapping, would know that method around immediately.
First, let me remind you that speed in no way extends the prep time. So kryptonian speed doesn't aid here.
Further more- Doom did twice make a device to take down a type of forcefield. They were two different devices, with different methods specifically picked for different forcefields.
So congrats. Had we drafted the guy in the first scan, or Sue Storm, you may have had something.
But we didn't, and it's ridiculous to assess based off of those scans that Doom, in a few seconds, can invent a device to negate every forcefield, ever. We'll have kryptonian, Oan, Qwardian, war world, apokalyptian, earthling and god knows what other tech at our disposal. And, thanks to our technopathy, we'll immediately know what type of forcefields will and won't work. It's a non-issue.
Well, that's at least one issue that you can admit is a little far-fetched. Now let's work on the other 20.
We only need the powers granted by the kryptonian element and the cyborg element, which allow us complete machine interface, kryptonian powers (without the usual light dependency), and the technological transmorphing.
The fact that his consciousness can live on outside of his body is a separate power, and one that holds no merit in this tourney. We could recreate that, since the have the Qwardian rings and Sersi's powers, recreating his transformation would be relatively easy. Not apparently necessary though.
First off, I think we're all have our doubts that you'll have anything in the way of kryptonian firepower.
Secondly, even if you did? We'd still be stronger and faster. We actually have experience with these powers- your only experienced kryptonian is sitting in the back. Secondly, with Hank's mind, we think and adapt far faster than our opponents. Hank is capable of instantly scanning and adapting to any scenario. He took a second to calculate the trajectory he would need to toss Doomsday from earth to Apokolips, and did so. We're super computers. Super computers amped by kryptonian reflexes and Qwardian rings, which as my parter showed give huge speed boosts themselves.
As for strength, just take a look at the scans of Cyborg Superman, with a Qwardian ring wrecking Superman like it was childs play. He didn't have Sinestro's experience for that fight, and he wasn't prepped with DC's deadliest firepower.
That scan demonstrates preparation to specifically take out GL rings- not something you've done.
While it's true you have energy absorbers, you've only given Doom 10% of Surfer's power- your only true energy absorber is Surfer, and he's not wiping out three yellow lantern rings. We'll have bigger firepower, we'll have actual kryptonian stats, and we'll think and move faster. Plus our fighter's are constantly being healed up to full health.
The kicker though? Even if they did manage to absorb the energy from a ring, it just opens up the options. We've had to hold back on tech because we don't want to breach the power limit, but if you take away Cyborg Superman's ring, he can just respond with the weapons from a kryptonian gunship...
That the GL shield, her super speed or her super powers will simply block... Surfer's the only energy absorber you have, and he's busy attempting to engineer a blast to take out Sersi. Likely he'll just be stopped in his tracks by one of his superior, faster and stronger opponents that he'd have to go through to get to her.
Given a prep time 10 times as long and a chance to redraft characters, yes, that's a possibility.
However, if you're referring to the current match.... no.
Your energy absorption is limited to Surfer, who you've already commited to making more and more black holes (which we've proven to be immune to; he'll waste his time and energy), and to making an anti-sersi attack, not realizing that she won't even be directly engaging him, and that he'd have to somehow barrel through two of his superiors to accomplish this.
Doom has 10% of Surfer's power, no armor, and either no kryptonian powers, no solar to power his kryptonian powers, or simply no experience with those powers.
Judges, if you realize the reasonable doubt in any of those three things:
-Doom attaining kryptonian powers (no indication of the time necessary, no help from Surfer, no time whatsoever)
-Doom receiving power for his kryptonian cells (they're using lamps FFS)
-Doom receiving any mental experience that he can use to quickly learn kryptonian powers (They've shown zero telepathy feats that would be on par with what they're suggesting, much less in the time span that they suggest to complete it)
If you disbelieve any of those three extroardinary claims, then it becomes a three on one match, which we clearly dominate.
We win regardless, but I thought I'd drive home how clearly their state predicates on the many lofty claims they've made, while they have yet to lay reasonable doubt upon anything we said or did during prep
Anyways, we'll wipe him out of existence before he can think "Cyttorak".
Also, I thought I'd point out here that Sersi has manipulated magic before-
So she's not a stranger to magic, and is capable of manipulating it. Given her huge speed boost, both in physical and thinking speed, it should be reasonable for her to protect herself from any effect.
Recap:
-They have no capacity to be kryptonian, to power kryptonians or to transfer kryptonian memories. Three huge leaps of faith if their prep is to be taken seriously
-They have no capacity to invent 5 uber devices on the fly, all of which appear to be just like devices that Doom's previously spent developing, except better in every fashion. He can't make all these improvements if the whole prep time were given to him, much less just two minutes.
-These leaves Doom as armor-less, tech-less, and kryptonian DNA-less.... so the fight is immediately two on one.
-Consequentially, Surfer won't have kryptonian powers either, and will have already lost more than a tenth of his power.
-Erads is staying as back up- after we quickly dispose of Surfer, it's a three on one fight that our guys are far more equipped for
-They came to a fight with pretty much the best technopath in comics, with a shitload of technology. They could have anticipated that we would be able to replicate the rings, and they actually split up and wasted their energy powers. Then they knew we'd have a team full of heavy hitters, and kept their heaviest hitter in the back. This entire fight was just a demonstration on how a sheer lack of foresight can obliterate one's chances.
-Even if they drain us of any one ring, we immediately substitute with tech from all over the DC universe. Even if they hurt Sersi, we already had the majority in numbers, and Surfer will have wasted his time and his tactical position by diving for her- eliminating him should be a quick matter afterwards. It's all just poor planning.
Team JaketheBank/Original Smurph aka Team Awesome Post #6/10
I was thinking about waiting for another response for our oppenents, but I figured I may as well address some other points and shed more light on what our team is truly capable of (and hopefully spur on some more debating through out the tournament).
Since my partner already did a bang up job of supporting our claims during prep and overall battle strategy as well as dismantle our oppenent's, I'm going to use this oppertunity to display just what our team is truly capable of.
If you take a look at the above scans, you'll note that this is an earlier Henshaw, his consciousness inside the very same birthing matrix that sent Superman to Earth. In this state, he had already suceeded in absorbing all knowledge of Earthly science as well as all the information stored inside the matrix itself. And here, without a real body, Henshaw was already capable of discharging a blast of energy capable of harming Superman.
These scans here show us the makeup of a very early Henshaw, the time when he first arrived in fully decked "Cyborg Superman" mode. Thanks in part to Sersi's superior transmutation and molecular manipulation (which has been proven and shown time and time again), this is but a low grade sample of what Sersi and Sinestro would be upgraded to, keeping in mind that the Cyborg shown here is pretty fresh and hasn't assimilated years worth of tech and the like. Physically making all of us Cyborg Superman is not a problem. How about mentally tranfering all of our memories, enabling us all to share each other thoughts and experiences?
Unlike our oppenents, we have several ways of accomplishing this. Sersi's telepathy (again shown to be much more formidable than Surfer's) can easily "upload" the information to herself and her peers. Need more proof?
Here Henshaw uplinks with the White House database, melding with their computers while simataneously gaining any and all information from them. Seeing as how Sersi and Sinesto will each be Cyborgs themselves, what's to stop Henshaw from simply synching up with fellow machines and uploading his own experience and skill with technopathy/technomorphing as well as the ease in which he uses Kryptonian powers? Nothing. And again, that's a rather early showing of Cyborg Superman. The "vet" Cyborg we're using is years more advanced (both in publication history and in character history) and is more than capable of sharing thoughts simataneously with multiple computers/machines.
Not only that, the power rings themselves are capable of mentally transmiting data as well as outright telepathy:
Between all three members of our team sharing memories and skills of each member, and with all three members now possessing super computer minds to superiorly process said information, it can easily be said that we're not only going to be capable of transforming into Cyborg Kryptonians, but our knowledge and mastery of our newfound powers will easily dwarf our oppenent's. This will further translate into team coodination as well as match presence, knowing exactly what's going on through out every phase of the battle. Simply put, our team is just a well oiled machine, each member perfectly melded with one another.
In comparison, you have:
Dr. Doom, who relinquished his armor in favor of 10% of the Power Cosmic and a Kryptonian powerset that is highly unlikely his team can give him, much less give him mastery in its useage.
Silver Surfer, who is operating on 90% of the Power Cosmic and also given a powerset that is unlikely for him to attain much less weild properly.
And Eradicator, who's hanging back, watching his team get slaughtered.
None of whom can share each other's thoughts on the fly or with the ease that we can during battle, none of whom can match our sheer energy output/manipulation, strength, speed, durability, or recovery factor. I'm not going to even begin to touch on the "sunlamp" strategem. I would have found it much more plausible for Surfer to just pump up someone on the team that now had "kryptonian powers" with yellow/blue solar radiation than for the team to create a device which will grant them the effects of said radiation on a level in which it would actually matter. As a technopath and genius of the highest order, Henshaw would be more than capable of that, but in the scale and the usage you're proposing during prep time?
Summary:
-Our team is more than capable of achieving our prep in the form of transforming Sersi and Sinestro into Cyborg Kryptonians.
-Our team is more than capable of sharing experiences, skills, and memories, either through Sersi's telepathy, Henshaw linking up with their cybornetic parts, or with the power rings they now each possess. And with all of these options, why choose when we can effectively do it all?
-Our team has much more to offer when it comes to communication, teamwork, and overall effectiveness, something that can easily be overlooked when it comes to team battles.
-Our team is likewise far more formidable as a whole with access to Kryptonian powers (and the knowledge in how to use them effectively, something our oppenent's have not accurately displayed being capable of doing), technopathy/technomorphing of the highest order, and mastery of Qwardian rings. We're not going to be outmuscled, outmanuvered, out-thought, or outgunned here, plain and simple. We're not going to be outmatched, period.
I assure you it's not a claim we're just making now, it was our intent all along. We had specific numbers in our rough draft of our opening post but they got edited out somewhere along the way. But you can look at this portion of the original post to see that we were never giving away a significant portion when we said Surfer was giving up a small portion of his Power Cosmic.
Uh... yeah it is. Our opening posts clear states that we're creating sun lamps. When I said they emitted the same energy as a yellow and blue sun I was talking about the TYPE of energy, not the amount. We're not trying to create lights that will illuminate the solar system after all, just enough for the prep lounge. I mean Ruin can bring Supes down with red sunlamps
...and you really think it's outlandish to think that he could be empowered by lamps that produce yellow and blue sunlamps?
So NOW I need to show all those things do I? Originally it was...
...all a matter of whether or not Surfer had actual telepathy, but now that I've shown that he does in fact have it we need more specific feats right .
Even if by some stretch of the imagination our mind link was unsuccessful, you're seriously overestimating the trouble Doom would have using Supes's powers.
Well as we've already covered, I was never making the claim that Surfer would be pouring the energy of two suns into Doom's armor but here's a few things just so there's no question as to whether or not Surfer will have the power to fullfill his part of the game...
Now Surfer was unsuccessful in his attempt in the above scans(damage was done by the Beyonder and Molecule Man after all), but that should pretty concretely prove that Surfer could spend the ENTIRE 5 minute prep period transmuting everything in sight, and still not end up low on power from it. And the kicker is, the above scans are from Surfer's "depowered" period.
Dude, his energy absorbers have stolen power from the Surfer, a Watcher, Galactus, Franklin Richards, and God only knows who all else. It's pretty much common knowledge that if Doom wants someone's energy and has a little prep, he's gonna get it.
Also, is "auto adapting" even allowed in this thing? Sounds a lot like
HP Doomsday type stuff, and I'm pretty sure that kind of thing was banned. Even if not, it also seems to fall into the category of "power copying".
You're also over exaggerating our need here, we don't need a device capable of absorbing any energy ever, just one capable of absorbing the energy from your power rings and characters. And if Doom can create a device that absorbs power from Surfer, I think it's safe to say that he can build one that's able to absorb power from you and your rings.
Not only will Doom be safely behind the shield of the Eradicator, Doom's got one of the strongest will's in comics bar none, even if we didn't have the defices(which we do) Sersi would be hard pressed to pull off anything against him.
Well lets see, he gains knowledge of Kryptonian Physiology from Erads so there's no problem there, and he's an expert on Surfer so I don't really see a problem there either(especially since Surfer will be welcoming the effect). But like I said these devices are irrelevant given the way the fight went down. See I found a way that you COULD have amped your power if we didn't have the device so I made it just in case, but since you are either oblivious to the method or are saving it for a future round whether or not we have them this round is completely inconsequential.
Actually I believe it was the speed force which was banned from extending prep time, I haven't actually seen a rule against super speed in general. I mean if I just missed that notice then feel free to point it out, but I'm pretty sure it was just the Speed Force that was banned. But even if I'm wrong it still doesn't matter as I was just pointing out his now Kryptonian speed to cement it, even without super speed his mind works as quickly as a sophisticated computer and instantly assimilate raw data
So with info from Erads and Surfer about GL rings and various "cosmic force fields" it should be childs play for Doom to slightly alter one of his existing devices.
Only far fetched to those who are unfamiliar with Doom and his accomplishments(which is why I said SOME people).
Ok so I'm seeing lots of scans, but not a single one that indicate that she's actually changing "them" rather than just their appearance. Remember what you said earlier...
...well by the same token it can be said that if Sersi was capable of what you're suggesting in 5 minutes then she wouldn't be allowed in this tourney because she already would have made herself and the rest of the Eternals into "transendant" characters via transmutation.
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Last edited by darthgoober on Jan 10th, 2010 at 04:34 PM
His technopathy doesn't stem from his cybernetics, his cybernetics extend from his technopathy. So even if you were able to turn your team into cyborgs(something that still hasn't been proven), you'd just have Kryptonian Cyborgs, not a team with Cyborg Supes's powers.
Hey you'll get no objections from me that Cyborg is supperior to standard Supes, but none of your scans featured Supes sun amped by yellow and blue solar energy did they? And they damn sure didn't feature a blue sun amped Fortress Mode Eradicator.
As for speed, Surfer can calculate his exact position in the universe by simaltaniously noting the locations of billions upon billions of individual stars as they wizz by as FTL speeds
...and you really think that Hanks mind works faster than Surfer's because of how he calculated DD's course through space... . And if you're basing it off of your rings ability to amp your speed, then what feats has Sinestro pulled off that give us an idea of how much of an amp his rings and knowledge can give?
Sure we did, we created energy absorbers remember?
Any proof you'll be able to create a "Kryptonian gunship" on the fly in the middle of a blackhole WHILE you're being bombarded with magic, cosmic blast, etc?
Sure it is, just read my previous posts to see why.
Nope, we'll have them and your team is screwed.
Doom has all that stuff.
Transmuting Thor or helping him out with teleportation via moldulating field isn't really the same as "manipulating magic". What does she have that actually suggest that she(or any other memeber of your team for that matter) will be able to escape the Crimson Bands?
-Sure we do, we have two of the best matter manipulator's in comics, one of which is an expert on Kryptonian DNA.
-We don't have to "invent" them, we just have to create them. Doom's history is filled with devices similar to the one's we created, they just need to be slightly reconfigured to suit our needs. And that kind of reconfiguration is fairly easy with the Power Cosmic... http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/...98700521ts3.jpg
-Uh... no.
-Sure he will.
-You can't manipulate our tech Smurph, it's built INTO the Eradicator so your trying to manipulate it would constitute manipulating your opponents body. We DID antisipate that you'd replicate your rings, which is why we have energy absorbers. I'll let Blair defend Erads but it should be noted that he's not refusing to engage, he's just holding back and can jump in at any time.
-Who said we'd only drain one ring?
Now judges here are some things for you to consider from our side...
1. Smurph's putting too much stock in the amount of info we need to gain from our mindlink(which according to him, any legitimate telepath could pull off). Doom's already used the powers of the Silver Surfer with extreme effectivenes, and Surfer has all of Supes's abilites and then some. Aside from that, Kryptonain powers aren't exactly quantum physics anyway. Just look how quickly Pa Kent adapts after recieving them
Now does anyone really believe that Doom's going to be running into walls or anything like that when Pa Kent didn't?
The only things we really NEED to transfer is enough knowledge of Kryptoinian DNA for Surfer to help Erads change Doom's genetic structure, Erads knowledge on things like GL's, and knowledge of Doom's devices to Erads so he can help Doom out with transmutation. Anything beyond that is just icing on the cake.
2. Sersi's going to be thrown from the battlefield within a second or two of the battle starting by our spatial energy wave and won't be able to lend any help regardless. When she's gone and either Cyborg or Sinistro are trapped in the Crimson Bands, the third guys going down QUICK.
3. We have energy absorbers, they have a demonstrated vulnerability to energy absorption.
4. We have magic, they have no legitimate counter for it even in general, let alone a specific counter for the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak.
5. We don't need to be anywhere near as effective as Smurph's implying for us to win this thing in a sweep. We don't need to "invent" our devices from scratch, we just need Doom to make some slight alterations on some of his existing devices. We don't need to be able to absorb any type of energy ever, we just need to be able to absorb energy from their power rings and persons. We don't need to nullify every type of forcefield ever, just the type our opponents are using. We don't need Surfer to take out the other team solo, he's still got Dr. Doom and Eradicator watching his back.
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Last edited by darthgoober on Jan 10th, 2010 at 04:39 PM
The original "sharing of cosmic awareness" bit that you brought up was in context of telepathy and sharing knowledge.
These scans do nothing to support those effort. Look pretty though.
Yes. Hell yes that's outlandish.
Red sun doesn't work like either yellow or blue sun radiation.
Yellow and blue sun radiation fill Kryptonian's cells, grant certain powers and so on. They depend on the amount of solar energy absorbed, which is why power levels vary depending on the proximity to the sun- the mere presence of solar energy is not enough, it needs to fill up the inner energy battery that kryptonians essentially are.
Red sun radiation does NOT do the reverse- all that red sun radiation does is "freeze" the solar energy inside the cells, not allowing the kryptonian to access it. It doesn't drain energy, it doesn't depower, it just locks the energy away. It doesn't need to fill cells. Consequentially, the mere presence of red run rays can leave Clark without access.
Consequentially, red sun lamps like those used by Ruin and Batman are effective, since Clark just needs to be hit by them while without solar light.
In there he accounts for the short amount of time that red sun rays take to do their stuff.
They are NOT comparable to yellow sun rays, and so I hope you have other proof to back up your prep, because otherwise you're hooped, my friend.
It's kind of funny, what you do here. You don't actually respond to any of the points that I made (presumably because you can't), and instead choose to attack what I said earlier and then proceed to act as if you've actually established a point.
When I said it shouldn't be a matter of question for any legitimate telepath, I didn't mean anybody legitimately possessing something that could be labeled as telepathy. I meant somebody with legitimate skill as a telepath. Somebody that regularly demonstrated skill in the power- I wouldn't ask for a specific feat then, because clearly they're capable and accomplished.
You, however, have yet to show anything demonstrating skill as a telepath. If you had him instantly learning vast amounts of information from unsuspecting minds, as Sersi has done, or stalemateing Exodus and commenting on his lack of skill, as Sersi has done, then it wouldn't really be up for debate.
You have yet to show anything other then rudimentary "let me hear your thoughts k?" telepathy.
If you had even basic feats that correlated loosely to what I was asking for, they would have served as a better response. Since you posted nothing, I'm gonna assume that that's a concession that they don't exist, and move on under the assumption that we've both realized your lack of capability to do anything you've claimed you can under the "telepathy" section in your prep, and certainly not in the 10 seconds that you've alloted for them.
"a little prep" has never in Doom's history consisted of 20 seconds to make something superior to any energy absorber he's ever made, ever....
He worked long and hard on each of those devices you described, and none of them were claimed to work on any energy in the universe.
Furthermore, the Qwardian energy that you think will be drained doesn't even exist in the Marvel Universe, so clearly he's never invented something to absorb it before. If Eradicator is supposed to know the specs on Qwardian energy to make this device work, I'd like proof?
No. What Doomsday does, like what Darwin does, is outside of his control- his body automatically changes to overcome challenges. We're just extremely smart shapeshifters, with superspeed and the capacity to instantly learn what you're attacking us with. Which means we can consciously force our bodies to change to our specifics, which is clearly different from Doomsday.
I don't. As you said, he's an expert in Surfer- he's spent eons learning about the power cosmic and how to control it.
In contrast, he here has 20 seconds to make a device to absorb a type of power that none of his compadres know the specifics of with any certainty.
First off, as you pointed out, the devices are inside Eradiactor- the specific mindblast blocking device that you're replicating needs to be wielded by hand, as shown in your scans. So Doom won't have much going for him.
Secondly, lol? Your will power > Exodus' mental defenses?
The difference here, as I'm sure you're well aware, is that Sersi's powers are never used to their maximum potential. Doom's intellect, however, is always used to its max, which it what makes him so impressive in comics.
Furthermore, I have the scans proving that she's changing them. She says she's rearranging their molecules, you can see the people changing subtly (in facial structure), or drastically, by being turned into Deviants, pigs or Kree.
Not really sure what else you want. If you would like to ignore Sersi's entire history as a character specializing in matter transmutation, ok, do so. I don't really understand the concept of her claiming to have transformed men into pigs, everybody else in comics agreeing, and you disagreeing- what, is she dressing men up in pigs costumes?
I was just going to tell everyone that I've been talking to Blair and he DOES plan on posting but he's been having RL issues all week and it might not be until sometime tomorrow afternoon. Since Smurph and Jake are running low on posts and they will undoubtedly want to answer all the stuff Blair in addition to them doing their wrap up if Smurph/Jake and the judges are ok with it I think it'd be a good idea to extend the end of the match untill 10 PM or so just to help make sure there's time all around and they don't have to stress about whether or not to use all their posts or wait for Blair in case he doesn't get stuff posted until 3 or 4 PM. But that's only if everyone's ok with it, we can go ahead with the schedualed time limit if it's what everyone else would prefer. Just thought I'd give a heads up after reading what leo wrote about last minute posts.
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Last edited by darthgoober on Jan 11th, 2010 at 08:08 AM
Sorry about being so late to the game. Hopefully this makes up for it.
Our Teams Capabilities:
Eradicator being underestimated:
You guys pretty much ignored Eradicator, favoring Silver Surfer instead. However its the combination of knowledge and power that Eradicator has, which coupled with this team that makes him a very valuable asset. More specifically, being the keeper of knowledge of all things Kryptonian (things like tech, science, genetics, history, ect ect) gives us the edge over a team that decided to become Kryptonian Cyborgs (this will come into play later).
First however, let me educate you on some of Eradicator's feats, broken down in category.
Advanced molecular control. Here, he fashions the highly advanced kryptonian FORTRESS OF SOLITUDE out of simple Ice and Rock. On top of that he also mind controls the humans into thinking they are kryptonians.
Eradicator imprinting and thus gaining a women's life time of memories by a simple touch. To say our ability to mindlink cannot happen is ludicrous: http://img228.imageshack.us/i/eradsarahou6.jpg/
Dooms tech + Power Cosmic:
Let us get a few things clear about Doom's technology and his use of the Power Cosmic
1) He's creating it through the power cosmic, instantly.
He has already invented these machines, so we are not pulling any of them out of our asses. The foundation is there to prove that he can create these inventions, they are simply slightly modified to fit our needs. To imply that Doom cannot create these is simply your job as the opposing team, but intellectually no one can deny Doom's ability to do so. Combined with the Power Cosmic he has shown the ability to instantly create weapons:
As far as the technology we have designed we have already stated and shown that Doom has created them. However, since you asked for further clarification on them, lets solidify even further in the judges mind our ability to create and use these devices. Darth has covered most of them, so let me focus on a few.
Energy Absorbers
The energy absorbers seem to be popular so lets start there. I would rather the scans do the talking so here is a showcase of some of Doom's simplest energy absorbing technology:
Doom's technology absorbing Cosmic Spiderman's powers without the knowledge of what type of energy it is! He wants to analyze it to be able to see how it functions. This shows that he does not need to know all there is to know about an energy before he can absorb it: http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/...man06018re2.jpg
Force Field Nullifiers
The reason we put this here is due to the fact that Eradicator has dealt with Sinestro's very own yellow ring. While we know the energy absorbers will work, both Darth and I like giving the judges more to put their faith in. Especially specific measures in which they can put their faith in.
In addition, the first scan of Doom bypassing the forcefield was not him being prepped as far as I know. It was a multi purpose anti forcefield energizer.
Psi-Refractors
Doom created a Psi reflector of sorts, has ample anti telepathy devices in his armor, and now he cannot create one again? Especially when he holds the power cosmic? Here is an example of the Power Cosmic creating a forcefield against Psychic attacks:
When you are Doom, you can do as you damn well please.
2) He's creating them to be stored inside Eradicator
The reason that we did not bring Doom's armor onto the playing field, and embedded the technology in Eradicator was due to Cyborg Superman's technopathy. To imply that you could control or copy the technology would assume you can matter manipulate Eradicator or that you have the necessary time to analyze, shift, and implement our technology. This is simply not the case in either scenario due to the tournament rules and the battle scenario you found yourself in.
With Doom's intelligence, ability to create weapons instantly, and cause sudden biological change, implementing these devices into Eradicator should be easy as pie. Add to this the fact that Eradicator has shared with him all the relevant data on himself, and is helping facilitate the process, our ability to do so should really not be questioned.
KMC Community Forums
Jan 5th, 2010 01:00 AM
) is at our fingertips. Not only that, but we have the ability to form weapons out of the blue, morphing them from our own body, something Henshaw is notorious for doing. Will be able to calibrate weapons on the fly DURING battle itself and with speed and computing ability that isn't even funny...well, yeah, okay, it is kinda funny but that's not the point. Here are some examples of Sinestro's impressive energy output and various ringslinging feats.
. Our team features a blue sun amped Fortress mode Eradicator and guys who are equal to a blue sun amped Supes. Standard Supes is good so our opponents obviously have firepower, but we've seen how yellow sunamps boost Supes and blue sun energy is even more effective. Yeah they've got power rings from Sinestro, but we've got energy absorbers and and as this scan demonstrates...
