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Ultimecia vs Kuja
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fascistcrusader
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Ultimecia vs Kuja

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This is base form, non TC Ultimecia against normal Kuja. Both have some pretty incredible feats. Ultimecia rules the world pretty much unopposed as she has destroyed nearly every nation on the planet and has the power of every sorceress who ever existed. Kuja controlled Bahamut, tanked one of the aforementioned beasts attacks, and has access to powerful magic.

Who takes it?


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2009 07:25 AM
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Pyron_Knight
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Ultimecia doesn't have the power of every sorceress ever.
Scan of her regular form:
"A sorceress trying to change the world by compressing time and taking power from all sorceresses.

Try again.

Kuja wins by the way.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2009 11:26 AM
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fascistcrusader
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As she is the last sorceress of her time she has all of the sorceress power there ever was. She was taking power from all the other sorceresses because she had the entire sorceress half of the great hyne and manipulated the other sorceresses to change time and cause time compression. It doesn't say she was trying to take their power, it says she already had it and was trying to change time.

And how does Kuja win? This is a close match, please provide details on your opinion.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2009 07:48 PM
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Pyron_Knight
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quote:
As she is the last sorceress of her time she has all of the sorceress power there ever was. She was taking power from all the other sorceresses because she had the entire sorceress half of the great hyne and manipulated the other sorceresses to change time and cause time compression. It doesn't say she was trying to take their power, it says she already had it and was trying to change time.


I don't see how your interpretation makes no sense.

First part:
A sorceress trying to change the world by compressing time


^ establishes she's trying to do something ie. it's not done yet and she has to accomplish it.

AND

^ establishes a link. There is another thing she hasn't done yet and is trying to do.

aking power from all sorceresses.

^ there you go. If your interpretation was right and she had it already it would not say very clearly that she was trying to take power from all soreresses.

And how does Kuja win Well for one Ultimecia has almost no feats in her regular form. The best you can guess at is she can do whatever Edea did and more but that's about it. And blocking bullets and chucking ice isn't comparable to smiling off Bahamut's attacks.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2009 11:40 PM
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Go play FF VIII again. As the last sorceress she has all of the great hyne, all of the sorceress powers, this is fact. The fact that she is taking power from all other sorceresses means she has all their power.

And as for no feats, she wiped out nearly all her opposition in the future by here self. Wiping countries off the map is pretty impressive if you ask me.

Kuja can win this, but it won't be easy for him.


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Old Post Mar 10th, 2009 12:11 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Go play FF VIII again. As the last sorceress she has all of the great hyne, all of the sorceress powers, this is fact. The fact that she is taking power from all other sorceresses means she has all their power.

And as for no feats, she wiped out nearly all her opposition in the future by here self. Wiping countries off the map is pretty impressive if you ask me.

Kuja can win this, but it won't be easy for him.
1. Fraid not. She has half of the Great Hyne, the weaker half which is compared to dead skin. Hyne himself contains the bulk of his power(which makes you really wonder how strong he is).

Never destroyed a country as far as we know.


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Old Post Mar 10th, 2009 12:36 AM
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fascistcrusader
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I meant to say all of the sorceress part of the great hyne....

And yes she has. Anything opposing her in the future was crushed. There are no nations left to stand in her way because she wiped them out. Se even says when speaking through Edea that she was "the cold blooded tyrant who slaughtered countless men and destroyed many nations."


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Old Post Mar 10th, 2009 12:40 AM
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But has she actually busted a country?


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Old Post Mar 10th, 2009 12:47 AM
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Pyron_Knight
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quote:
Go play FF VIII again. As the last sorceress she has all of the great hyne, all of the sorceress powers, this is fact. The fact that she is taking power from all other sorceresses means she has all their power.


Which makes no sense because she gave her powers to Edea. Are you saying Edea thus had all the power of every sorceress? She can't have as there were other sorceresses alive.

quote:
And yes she has. Anything opposing her in the future was crushed. There are no nations left to stand in her way because she wiped them out. Se even says when speaking through Edea that she was "the cold blooded tyrant who slaughtered many men and destroyed countless nations."


She's not speaking literally. She's simply insulting the crowed for their prejudice view of the sorceresses in general.
Or were the people of Galbadia condemming Ultimecia for generations...?


"Hailing the very one you have condemned for generations. Have you no shame? What happened to the evil, ruthless sorceress from your fantasies? The cold-blooded tyrant that slaughtered countless men and destroyed many nations? Where is she now? She stands before your very eyes to become your new ruler. HAHAHAHAHA."

All she's saying is she is one of those monsters they have such a narrow-minded view of. Nothing more.


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Old Post Mar 10th, 2009 12:49 AM
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In the future nothing opposes her. She is hated by humanity and is persecuted by them, in retaliation she destroyed their nations and slaughtered their troops. Every word she breathed was true.

Edea existed simultaneously with Adel, Ultimecia couldn't give her all of the sorceress power because that would have lead to a paradox. Pyron, the simple fact that she is the only one left means she has all of it, this is a fact. I know from previous thread s you don't know much about FF lore, so please stop trying to argue with the game.


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Old Post Mar 10th, 2009 01:14 AM
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Pyron_Knight
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How childish... I'm well versed in FF lore which is why i'm using it to support my position.
But I can admit if I'm wrong. I probably am actually. Just provide a source saying she has all the power of every sorceress. Until then, the official Scan of her says she doesn't.


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Last edited by Pyron_Knight on Mar 10th, 2009 at 01:36 AM

Old Post Mar 10th, 2009 01:32 AM
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fascistcrusader
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The official scan of her says she's using it, how would she take the power from all the sorceresses yet not have it?

Also:

quote:
I'm well versed in FF lore


Lol

and:

quote:
But I can admit I'm wrong


LOL


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Old Post Mar 10th, 2009 01:34 AM
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Pyron_Knight
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quote:
The official scan of her says she's using it, how would she take the power from all the sorceresses yet not have it?


Um...what are you talking about?
I repeat:
quote:
First part:
A sorceress trying to change the world by compressing time


^ establishes she's trying to do something ie. it's not done yet and she has to accomplish it.

AND

^ establishes a link. There is another thing she hasn't done yet and is trying to do.

aking power from all sorceresses.

^ there you go. If your interpretation was right and she had it already it would not say very clearly that she was trying to take power from all soreresses.


quote:
lol
lol


oh fascist, when will you just give up? You will always be my inferior in every way. I know more than you ever could.


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Old Post Mar 10th, 2009 01:38 AM
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She does already have it. Go do five minutes worth of research and you'll see that because she is the last of the sorceresses and the only one in her time, all of the sorceress half of the great hyne is hers. She already has all of the sorceress power, this is fact.

She also destroyed nations in the future. Because her actions were know long before her actual birth and becoming a sorceress, she was persecuted and hated by all humanity for generations. Because she was hated many nations and armies tried to kill her, and she defeated all of them. This is why there are bodies littering the beach outside of her castle.

quote:
oh fascist, when will you just give up? You will always be my inferior in every way. I know more than you ever could.


Is that why I've dominated you and nearly everyone has agreed with me in our FF debates?


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Last edited by fascistcrusader on Mar 10th, 2009 at 01:52 AM

Old Post Mar 10th, 2009 01:42 AM
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Pyron_Knight
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I did do five minutes of research...I did about 60 hours actually if I remember my las tplay time right.

But whatever. . I don't even believe my position anymore.
I just provided a quote which to me pretty muchh flatly stated she didn't have the power of every sorceress but that does disagree with the idea of sorceress succession.
I just wish there was a translation of the FF8 Ultimania. I have it in the original japanese on my comp but I can't read it.


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Old Post Mar 10th, 2009 01:50 AM
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quote:
Is that why I've dominated you and nearly everyone has agreed with me in our FF debates?


First off, appeal to the majority is a fallacy.
Second, I don't remember many people agreeing with you in the Xenosaga vs. FF debate.
And that's the only other FF debate I recall us having.


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Old Post Mar 10th, 2009 01:53 AM
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I also wish there were translations of the FF VIII Ultimania. They are working on translating the IX Ultimania right now though, so we should soon have two Ultimanias translated.

Back on subject:

It doesn't even really matter if she has all of it or not, the fact is that she wiped out armies and nations that persecuted her, and that this fight isn't one sided either way.

Also, there was the debate we had about Exdeath vs Kuja in which not even UltimaKuja, fangirl extraordinaire, agreed with you that Kuja would win.


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Old Post Mar 10th, 2009 01:57 AM
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Nephthys
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Fascist is right, as the last sorceress Ultimecia logically would hold the totality of the Sorceress power's, where else would it go, Mars?The nature of the powers (more precisely how they are passed on) makes this a logical fact.

Also, didn't Ultimecia create the castle at the end and all the monster's within, or was that TC Ultimecia?


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Old Post Mar 10th, 2009 12:27 PM
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I already said I was probably wrong. I don't care enough about 8 anyway to continue this.


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Old Post Mar 10th, 2009 02:40 PM
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The Castle and everything was created by Ultimecia before she began to compress time. She used it as her base of operations to begin her plans, and from here she defended herself against White SeeD attacks with ease and destroyed the nation and armies opposing her. As for the monsters some of them were probably created, but the sorceresses she only pulled in after time compression when she could summon things from other times. We also know that she can create her own GFs from someone's thoughts before she begins to absorb the universe.


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Old Post Mar 10th, 2009 05:23 PM
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