Ok, so for feats that I haven't cited here, the scans are in the previous thread. Don't worry though, just ask for scans for something and I'll find them for you, rather than just going “look it up yourself”. I'm just trying to save myself some time here, some of these are scans I hadn't prepared at all, so I'm digging through back issues.
this is a sort of “limbo” where starhawks from various timelines have congressed. They all know that they are under attack before it occurs, also, it is noted they are on edge even before this, indicating that their precognition occurs earlier than just immediately preceding an event
A big deal is made that Starhawk was actually hit by an opponent, we later find out that this is because Aleta is there in the timeline, causing him to not be able to foresee everything properly. This is PIS, almost by definition. No such variables would exist in this fight.
So, granted, it isn't a spider-sense, but it is certainly precognition of what is going to happen
Gender: Unspecified Location: REALM OF THE UNDERWORLD
First off: Good luck man and lets have fun ..
Starhawk supposed precog abilities actually stems from him remembering his exp. from previous life cycles, it is not what you call true precognition. It is useless in this match...
Giselle spells to transfer bulk information would require for the receiver to have very fast processing abilities otherwise all those info worth several life cycles would overwhelm and overload them. Nether Exodus, Starhawk nor Giselle have this abilities, this spell pretty much backfired against them..
The spell incantation would also require a power source to be of use, in this instant the sigil which cannot be transferred/replicated via spell casting.. Again even if they manage to know the incantation spells it would still be useless since the power require to do so is not there, refer to Exodus and Starhawk...
Another thing worth mentioning about Giselle is that the planet Ciresse where all the story revolves is rich with cosmic energy vastly augmenting her powers however this match does not takes place in her homeworld which means shes not at her usual level and greatly decreases her own power level..
Your Attack Phase:
Starhawks initial attack would be foiled by Tony's energy shield which was put up at the end of prep..
Your actually making it a lot easier for my char. to proceed with the plan, the RT's blast would easy engulf you since your char. actually went head to head against mine; the summons and your characters would instantly be vaporized by a star going nova and by star i meant the RT's..
To sum it all up your prep ended up hurting your characters rather than actually giving you an advantage.. It basically overloaded/fried there synases and top it up they gained nothing... Your Attack phase actually ended up working to my advantage as i didn't have to spent energy and look you up...
She look worse off just exchanging view points, so imagine downloading all exp., emotion, view from a being who have leave for more than 5 to 6 life cycle, the mind would reel to all that information heck probably fries it...
ok, so, maybe I should be flattered that your main argument strategy is to try any arbitrarily depower my characters... shows a little uncertainty in your own position, if you get what I'm saying.
So, first off:
totally untrue. Giselle trained her skills in an alternate dimension, she set up her base on the moon of her planet, where she has fought numerous foes with her magic, and has, in fact, had full access to her magical abilities while on another planet. It is stated in the comic, numerous times, that she is the source of her seemingly unlimited magical powers, not some connection to the planet. There is no reason for you to say this, and for me to debate you any further on the point is a red herring for the judges. Unless you have some scans that prove otherwise, this is an entirely made up point.
It is interesting now, that we get into a very strange, essentially, philosophical argument about how Starhawk's powers might work. Do tournament fights count as things Starhawk would have experienced in his timeline?
I will give you this. It is not something I can settle absolutely, and it will be up to either KK to decide in the context of this tourney, or for the judges to decide in their own interpretations.
I'm going to do two things here, the first is an argument for why Starhawk's “one-who-knows” should be extended to tournaments, and then I will give a contingency if one is not convinced by the first part.
So, basically, there is no reason to think it shouldn't. The argument being made here would be like telling someone writing Starhawk fanfiction that they couldn't use the “one-who-knows” because the fanfic universe would be one Starhawk never knew. Basically, because Starhawk had this tournament fight in this existence, he has had it in every existence.
Similarly, as I have shown, Starhawk's memories also serve as a part of his power base. By introducing what is essentially PIS (do you have any scans to suggest that his powers shouldn't work in this context?), you are introducing an artificial handicap on my character. I think the burden should be on you to show why my character should be handicapped, as I can't think of any scans that would suggest his “knowing” is limited to only his experiences in the Marvel Universe.
Tbh, the last two points I've argued here have been entirely PIS being introduced by you into the fight. Could I say that Iron Man's tech is no longer functional in this universe because it is tied to the wonky physics of the MU? Could I say that Grail's energy should just diffuse all over the place because we are no longer in his universe? Really, this is just a red herring, and unless you have scans, there is really no need to argue the points.
But, should you consider that Starhawk does not have access to this fight, my team is already assembled into what would be the defence formation precog would instruct them to assume. Provided you can get that scan of Warlock absorbing Grail's abilities, you should be faster in attacking than Giselle and Exodus, so they would be fully shielded, as I stated in my prep, guarded behind lines of demons and golems which would absorb a large amount of the blast. Giselle's shields, only known to be broken by a very powerful cosmic being, and Exodus', he has matched Sersi in terms of blocking energy, together should hold, especially given both are hugely amplified. Basically, for the first moments of this match, it doesn't matter whether I have precog, though I would argue I should.
About the transfer spell, you claim:
this is not true. Period. Giselle is able to cast spells herself, with no need of an external power source, and we see her do it twice in the scans i provided. This point is settled unless you have scans to prove otherwise imho.
First, there is the necessary perspective needed on two sets of scans:
in the former, the leader of the tantric guild is deliberately trying to overwhelm Giselle. Earlier in the comic she comments on the way non-tantrics are ashamed of their physiques and sexuality, and eventually in the comic series, the guild leader of the tantrics becomes one of Giselle's enemies.
In the latter, Giselle is deliberatly trying to overwhelm the Succubus, such that she defeats it, but that it is still alive so that she can clear her own name (the succubus had been assuming her form to attack people).
However, from these scans, we see far more information past, the entire language and a lot of the history of Giselle's people, with no effects on the person receiving the information:
So, what we take from this is that the caster of the spell has control over whether or not the spell is overwhelming. Further, all I am transferring is a little bit of memory about the fight and about spell casting, this is on the scale of Giselle transferring her language to another person, with no ill effects.
There is absolutely no reason to think that my characters would face any “synapse frying” effects.
However, and I make this contingency only because it proves my point absolutly, not because I think my characters are in any way overwhelmed, Giselle is shown to be entirely lucid and stands the entire time through the scans you are using here. I have allocated a couple of minuted after this spell is cast for my characters to become proficient with spell casting. In the absolute worst case scenario, reduce 20-30 seconds from that so my characters can recover. But this is not necessary, because in the scans I have provided, Giselle is able to transfer an entire language between people, which is probably more impressive than transferring memories.
That language transfer is a more impressive feat than memory transfer is something you will probably have to trust me on, or, you can base your debate strategy on debating neuroscience with me [lol, ok... maybe not, but essentially]
__________________ yes, a million times yes
Last edited by tsilamini on Jan 9th, 2011 at 02:11 AM
This would only be true if you wanted to admit Exodus and Giselle have faster reflexes and attacks than your “grail/warlock” dragon. However, if Warlock can absorb Grail's energy-form-speed-whatever, he would be faster than Giselle/Exodus.
So, option A) my characters are faster, option B) my characters are in an incredibly powerful defensive position.
Giselle's shields, when she wasn't enhanced as much as she is in this fight, are capable of withstanding blasts from creatures the most powerful guilds of mages on her planet could not defeat. She has defended herself against what would be considered the the “Gods” of the cross-gen universe. Now she has been enhanced to be exponentially stronger.
Exodus, who as I have shown can match Sersi in terms of energy output, can also create shields impenetrable to radiation:
And in this case he is enhanced by both magic and a psi enchancer
so, those two combined, protected by a line of golems and demons, should be sufficient to protect against any type of energy blast, even if you do take out my golems (option B) or, you are subject to an incredibly powerful psionic attack that probably KOs the majority of your team.
As for Starhawk:
So, here is the deal. He moves faster than your energy attack. Here he is going 3x the speed of light:
So, he basically can hide behind Giselle and Exodus, he is fast enough to see your attack coming in slow motion, and if they do get hurt, [i]which they shouldn't[/u], he can heal them at FTL, because he can survive inside of a sun, the thing you claim the RTs' are as powerful as.
Starhawk's blasts are powerful, and he moves far faster than Stark could see. Further, he has at least a rudimentary understanding of how Starktech works, in terms of how to destroy it. I did provide a scan showing Starhawk breaking a forcefield of Krovac's, which Thor could not. Getting flanked by those attacks at FTL speeds would quickly overwhelm Ironman, molecular scanning or not. He would be getting hit thousands of times a second.
Surely you jest. The combined shields of [enhanced] Exodus and Giselle, protected by a line of golems and demons would easily hold, leaving your team open for direct psychic attacks from one of Marvel's most powerful telepaths. Giselle could turn your techno-dragon into a teddy bear in the same way she did to this real dragon:
Starhawk is moving faster than even Grail has been shown to move, his offensive output is incredible, and his reflexes allow him to move faster than anything you can throw at him. If Exodus and Giselle can't give your team the coup de gras, Starhawk certainly will.
Gender: Unspecified Location: REALM OF THE UNDERWORLD
Not absorb but access it, I've got a scan from new mutants forever where he morph into an armor around Sunspot and access sunspot mutant powers.. As soon as i've scanned it'll be posted..
He pretty much said a man made star in the scan, he commented on it again in Ironman #31 of him having unexhaustable power source.. Might i also add that the 2 presented in that scan are the smartest beings in Marvel Earth, they are discussing facts...
My research suggested otherwise.. The planet Ciress unusual
position in the Sigilverse allows it to gather great universal energies (cosmic energy) which is then stored in the planet itself. The inhabitant can channel this energies through the use of magic spells and incantation which is also stored within the planets core's advance technology serving as a power source and principal mechanism behind its operation..
The sigil is basically an object that allows its bearer full potential unlock and in Giselle case the ability to channel more energy within her planet.. This is why we see her at her most powerful at planet side..
these points are not related, nor is there any indication in the comics that Ciress' position in the galaxy is the cause of people being able to cast magic.
a) this says nothing about magic users being able to cast on other worlds
b) this means there are more magic users, or it is easier to become a magic user on Ciress than other worlds, rather than magic use must be restricted to Ciress
neither of these links actually say what you are trying to. Sure, there is a connection between Ciress and magical energies, this has nothing to do with Giselle. Now, I should be able to stop here, because you don't have scans, and the proofs you are using are weak themselves, but I have scans that absolutely establish what I am saying.
ok, so first, Giselle has twice been stripped of her magic powers. Both times had the exact same cause, the Geometer guild. Once while on Ciress, the other while on another world.
So, how come Giselle was cut off from magic on this world? It was because the Geometer Guild came and specifically blocked this planet from universal energies:
Even so, while on this world, Giselle spends 2 and a half issues in magic combat, casts the transfer spell twice, and transmutes all the weapons of one tribe into thin air, before she finally uses her reserves ( Mystic 31-33).
So, even in the case where she is on a planet specifically blocked from universal energies, she still has considerable magic reserves.
Further, she uses her magic abilities on the First homeworld of Elysia with no problems:
It is clear that a world/dimension/etc has to be deliberately cut off from these energies in order for Giselle to be unable to access them. Simply going to “Earth”, much like an alternate dimension, would not be enough to render her powerless. Someone would have had to block Earth from the Universal energies.
At all times, Giselle is at full power in this fight. There is no reason to assume otherwise, your Wiki/CV sources don't actually say she is weaker off world, and there are no scans to support this. Further, scans showing her at full power while fighting on other worlds and dimensions, and even showing considerable magic resources while on a world where magic is blocked, show that this is really not an argument. You are claiming something that is simply wrong about my character's powerset.
Comicvine actually doesn't make either of the claims you are making there...
Giselle's Sigil has demonstrated essentially 3 functions. The first is a “non-magic” cosmic energy beam:
Her familiar will have none of it, and sends her off on a quest to realize she has all this power, herself. In the end, she solves a Geometer puzzle and is able to transmute that dragon into a teddy bear, realizing the Sigil, as Skit says, only unlocked something inside her, was not a source of power in itself (at least in terms of her magic abilities).
So, again, unless you have scans, this issue is settled. Giselle's sigil is not connected to her magic abilities, and is just as useful off world as on world.
My feeling is that I have been exhaustive on this issue, and that my position is clearly correct. However, if a judge is somehow convinced that Earth, for no real reason whatsoever (re: PIS), were blocked from mystic energies (introducing an arbitrary handicap against my character), it would have little impact on the battle, especially thus far [let me also just add, in selecting “The Himalayas” as a battle location, KK did not specify any conditions saying there are no universal energies or what have you]:
I guess I didn't specify, and going by scans, I shouldn't have to, but the only one of my characters with a permanent base is Giselle, so her moon base is the most probable spot for my prep anyways. Thus, my prep occurs somewhere where Giselle has full access to magic and doesn't have to rely on reserves, thus the battle begins and commences as it would have normally, Giselle with a tremendous reserve of power, having used the sigil to absorb from Exodus, that certainly would keep her fighting for a while.
If, again for some reason I can't fathom, we are assuming that my prep also occurs somewhere where energies are blocked, the spells Giselle are casting would not be as exhaustive as the battles she fought while being blocked off world. Her reserves have been shown in the comics to be more than enough to transfer or cast the magic eyes, or to summon golems or demons. These are spells that single mages do with little difficulty, for Giselle, they would be trivial. With the boosts from Exodus, and this being the worst cast scenario for me, Giselle still would have incredible reserves in this situation. Certainly long enough to withstand any opening attack from your team, and more than enough to finish your characters.
I really want to emphasize here, and while it appears you are just arguing from a misreading of wiki and CV sites [I don't need to stress how this type of evidence compares to scans?], this has the effect of introducing unjustified PIS against my character. There would be no difference if I were to argue that your RTs are powerless here because they are only functional in Marvel Universe physics. Maybe if I had the scans to back it up, but even then, it is such a cheap argument in the first place. Like I said though, maybe I should feel flattered by the fact that you think you need to artificially lower my characters' power levels.
You misunderstand what i meant, i was referring to both Starhawk and Exodus after the sharing/exchanging of thoughts or exp cast by Giselle during your prep, you claimed that they (Exodus and Starhawk) would be able to use magic ala Giselle albeit not as verse as her to which i replied this would not be possible since they would need to acquire a similar magical power source as Giselle which she was only able to garner with the power of the sigil and the absorption of the elders of the magic guilds..
Sorry man i didn't see anything in there that disprove my claim, in fact you kinda provided me with proof that this spell is mind blowing given that once activated there would be an all out pour of information exhange..
Here lets take a look at some of the scans you've provided..
Now if what you claim is true that she has full control of the memory being transferred, why then was she not able to limit the info being transfer in her side and save herself the headache?
Its really quite clear that once this spells is activated, all info is shared at once by the chars. involve..
So think about it? This chars. she used this spells and compare this to the 2 chars. used in this fight; Exodus is practically immortal being alive since 12th century.. Starhawk born 2002 and was still around in 3017 then he had to relive that life again with intact memories and additional new once from 616 timeline.. Taking both memories, exp., viewpoint at once would certainly overwhelm someone who does not possess very fast processing ability, a good way to fry someone synapses.. In these case your characters, (Giselle, Exodus, Starhawk)
As powerful as the creature is, less that blast contains as much power as a sun going Nova then you've got somethin to contend to, otherwise that shield would not hold up, to top that off we've got a few more RT's at our disposal to unleash..
Unfortunately there would be no enhancement to exodus or starhawk, i've made my point on the above post..
When did Exodus manage to make a psi enhancer? What material did he use?
The golem and your demons would really just be cannon fodder, doubt they would be slowing down the advance of the energy wave produce from the total explosion of the rt's and again ive got a few more at my disposal to empty..
His got the aide of the Q band heck Quazar can almost keep up with Surfer w/ q bands let alone someone enhance powers added to it.. Unfortunately he does not have that option here.. Looking at the scan, it clearly shows Starhawks activation of the q band..
Surviving the sun shows extreme durability perhaps above caps...
either way if he does survive it would be 3 to 1 cause really i dont think both exodus and giselle shield could hold out to that kind of power at point blank range..
Stark tech is always on the upgrade, this is why his coming out with diff. armors almost every couple of issues not to mention in this case its meld with technarch tech, Starhawk would not be familiar with this tech..
I wouldnt be putting him above Grails in speed as both exhibit FTL, heck im putting slight above than him as Grail is as fast as instant teleportation..
I don't think your getting the picture of how my chars are looking right now.. Think of amalgam, they are all in one.. Tony melded with Warlock and Warlock formed a huge/gigantic armor into Grail.
That remains to be proven..
My chars is immune to psi assault Grail/Warlock/Ironman..
I think thats against the rules matter manipulation, if its not then ..
Because he is inside the armor as well, Warlock meld with Tony and also absorbs the prep stage which is tony's lab...
Technarch and Nano tech:
My chars. can also attack you with the phalanx virus or nano virus if in someway you chars can survive a barrage of a few RT's going supernova..