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Team Superman Vs Team Marvel
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Senor Cage
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Team Superman Vs Team Marvel

Old Post Nov 27th, 2011 10:36 AM
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Old Post Nov 27th, 2011 10:36 AM
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Void Sentry or standard?

Old Post Nov 27th, 2011 10:45 AM
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Standard.

Old Post Nov 27th, 2011 10:48 AM
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JakeTheBank
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DC is stacked.


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Old Post Nov 27th, 2011 11:08 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
DC is stacked.

Old Post Nov 27th, 2011 11:24 AM
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Enzeru
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I would actually give it to Marvel, since they have a lot energy / radiation manipulators, so they could drain few of the enemies and render them helpless in the process.

Sentry for example could drain the solar energy out of Superman and even become stronger through that.
Additionally there are Beta Ray Bill with his hammer, Ronan and Quasar who can drain energy.
I feel like they all also have the greater versatility which would come in hand, but in the end it would still be a damn tough fight, since the DC team has a huge advantage in strenght and speed, since characters like Black Bolt and Ronan are actually not really strong and fast.

Especially Mr. Majestic could be a little bit too much for the Marvel team since he has some ridiculous speed (creating gadgets to win battles in nano-seconds...)

Old Post Nov 27th, 2011 11:54 AM
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DarkSaint85
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I give it to DC, mainly due to Majestic and Hank....

Imagine Hank taking over Worldmind!!!


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Old Post Nov 27th, 2011 12:09 PM
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abhilegend
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Enzeru
I would actually give it to Marvel, since they have a lot energy / radiation manipulators, so they could drain few of the enemies and render them helpless in the process.

Sentry for example could drain the solar energy out of Superman and even become stronger through that.
Additionally there are Beta Ray Bill with his hammer, Ronan and Quasar who can drain energy.
I feel like they all also have the greater versatility which would come in hand, but in the end it would still be a damn tough fight, since the DC team has a huge advantage in strenght and speed, since characters like Black Bolt and Ronan are actually not really strong and fast.

Especially Mr. Majestic could be a little bit too much for the Marvel team since he has some ridiculous speed (creating gadgets to win battles in nano-seconds...)

What makes you think sentry can absorb superman's energy? I can ask you what is stopping superman from absorbing sentry's energy instead (he has actually done it against Rampage, a solar charged being)? Superman hyper-metabolizes his solar energy, it's not leaking through like sentry.


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Old Post Nov 27th, 2011 12:15 PM
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Enzeru
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
What makes you think sentry can absorb superman's energy? I can ask you what is stopping superman from absorbing sentry's energy instead (he has actually done it against Rampage, a solar charged being)? Superman hyper-metabolizes his solar energy, it's not leaking through like sentry.


The fact that Sentry can draw energy from everywhere and I guess that would also include Superman's body.
There were instances where Superman was drained, so I don't see why the Sentry couldn't be able to do it too, even though the fight would be rather strange in the beginning, since I see Sentry not bothering about something like that in the beginning and releasing his energy which would sun-dip Superman and make him stronger, but once that is realized, he would lose all the radiation.
If Sentry can absorb the the energy of a Cosmic Cube and contain it for a while, then he alone should be able to absorb also Supermans solar radiation.
Additionally to that there are also Ronan, Quasar and BR Bill.

And the DC team has few characters who depend on solar energy, life force energy and so on, basically energies which can be manipulated and drained. Apollo would basically be useless after the first few seconds of the fight. Superman would follow shortly after.

Old Post Nov 27th, 2011 12:33 PM
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Senor Cage
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Most of the Supermen don't need that. Cap is magical based, won't work on Majestic, Ultraman, or Cyborg Supes.

Old Post Nov 27th, 2011 12:37 PM
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abhilegend
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Enzeru
The fact that Sentry can draw energy from everywhere and I guess that would also include Superman's body.
There were instances where Superman was drained, so I don't see why the Sentry couldn't be able to do it too, even though the fight would be rather strange in the beginning, since I see Sentry not bothering about something like that in the beginning and releasing his energy which would sun-dip Superman and make him stronger, but once that is realized, he would lose all the radiation.
If Sentry can absorb the the energy of a Cosmic Cube and contain it for a while, then he alone should be able to absorb also Supermans solar radiation.
Additionally to that there are also Ronan, Quasar and BR Bill.

And the DC team has few characters who depend on solar energy, life force energy and so on, basically energies which can be manipulated and drained. Apollo would basically be useless after the first few seconds of the fight. Superman would follow shortly after.


Where is that instance of sentry drawing energy from everywhere because I think that was just a hyperbole. Who has absorbed superman's energy besides Triumph who was powered by 5-d imps.
Again whose energy has sentry absorbed while in battle or anywhere because even the classic eradicator who turned entire sun red was astonished how much power and resistance superman's nearly drained and dying body possesses when he tried to draw energy from it. Where did Sentry absorbed cosmic cube's energy? IIRC it was just him holding the cube in his hands and do you think sentry can stand against a sundipped superman even for a few seconds? Only superman and apollo uses solar energy here.

Old Post Nov 27th, 2011 01:22 PM
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Enzeru
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
Where is that instance of sentry drawing energy from everywhere because I think that was just a hyperbole.

In his fight with Photon he was drawing energy from everywhere and he and Photon were destroying worlds while holding back. They were in a microverse, so they were able to show off a little bit =P

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
Who has absorbed superman's energy besides Triumph who was powered by 5-d imps.


Ruin, Blackstar, Dr. Polaris and probably other instances. For example where Superman was hit by a shrinking ray. He was in a microverse and Batman had to save him, since Superman was slowly dying without the Sun to amp him, so yeah. Superman needs solar radiation.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
Where did Sentry absorbed cosmic cube's energy? IIRC it was just him holding the cube in his hands


Holding it in his hands? He was not lifting the Cosmic Cube, he was containing it. Therefore we can assume that the Cosmic Cube was escaping and Sentry was holding it together, basically absorbing it's power to stabilize it.

Would that be that unbelievable?
Voidsentry easily defeated the Molecule Man, who was retconned to be a half of a Cosmic Cube.

While many people tend to scream "PIS PIS PIS", it was still very well explained and said that Molecule Man never had to deal with Sentry's molecules and that he was inexperienced with something like them.
He simply got overpowered later on and once the people realize that, they tend to scream: "MOLECULE MAN RETCON, MOLECULE MAN RETCON!", but the fact is still that there was no further retcon of the Molecule Man character after the first one and that the retconned Molecule Man was still shattering galaxies and different timelines in his fight with the Beyonder.

The only thing about him during the Dark Avengers was his mental state, since he was basically nuts and desperate, creating illusions of beings like Dormammu and Mephisto, since he was searching for friends. That's what he also said to the Sentry before he ripped him apart.
Molecule Man had his powerlevel but he was still not going full out on anything besides the Sentry, which he hit with a direct beam. Later on he got overpowered by Voidsentry and it was over.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
and do you think sentry can stand against a sundipped superman even for a few seconds? Only superman and apollo uses solar energy here.

I think that a stable Sentry (as portrayed in his first mini) as the potential to bring Superman down, since he has simply a greater variety of powers and ways to take Superman down.

+ Intangibility and invisibility (both probably on a pretty good scale, since he phased through bullets while holding up a car and even with super senses there doesn't seem to be a way to sense him, if he goes invisible)
+ Energy / radiation absorbtion (enough to contain cosmic cubes)
+ Powerful telepathy (enough to affect Savage Hulk who is practically invulnerable to telepathy because of his brute nature and the mind-erasing of over 6 billion peoples and even animals)

... And if the Void appears, it's all over with Superman anyway since all the Void would have to do would be to mind-rape Superman and drain his life force. If the Parasite can do it, then the Void will be able to do it too and I honestly don't think that there is ANYTHING Superman would be able to do to the Void.

Old Post Nov 27th, 2011 02:16 PM
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1. How would Sentry know to drain him?
2. And what's to stop Superman from simply being recharged from the Sun?

Also, Polaris was draining him and still couldn't beat him.

And Superman has arguably the most impressive TP resistance of any herald in DC.

Old Post Nov 27th, 2011 02:24 PM
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SquallX
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I was hit with nostalgia when i saw the pic of icon.

Old Post Nov 27th, 2011 02:31 PM
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Enzeru
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by -Pr-
1. How would Sentry know to drain him?
2. And what's to stop Superman from simply being recharged from the Sun?
Also, Polaris was draining him and still couldn't beat him.

3. And Superman has arguably the most impressive TP resistance of any herald in DC.


1. Sentry is not the only one in the team. If you're talking about 1v1's then yeah, it would probably take a while to realize that, but at the same time it should be obvious to feel that Superman is getting stronger and stronger thanks to Sentry's solar energy output.

In the team fight, I'm quite sure that the others who have better energy manipulation feats would realize that it would be a way to go to take Superman out and it would be basically the best way to do it, since they would take 1-2 opponents out without harming them, so yeah it would be totally in character.

And it's also not Polaris VS Superman, but Sentry VS Superman or in this special case many energy manipulators VS Superman.
Of course Superman has also his teammates and that's what would make the fight interesting in the long run.

2. Nothing. He can fly up into the orbit and spend some high quality time in front of the sun, but it would take a while while the fight would go on and on on the ground.
What's stopping the Sentry from draining Supermans solar energy again and getting stronger in the process?
Since that's what the Super Soldier Serum did to the Sentry. It gave him a photosynthetic reaction: He absorbs solar radiation passivly and gets stronger.

3. I don't doubt that, but it's still debatable if he could resist Sentry's telepathy / empathy. I would actually not go into the telepathy / empathy way to declare Sentry's victory, since his telepathic powers are very inexperienced, but he was still able to use his telepathy in a offensive way and affected the Hulk who is immune to it.

He erased Professor X's, Emma Frosts and many other peoples (like Dr. Doom) memories more then once, Emma needed a permission to enter his mind where she built a White Room and later on she still needed the help of Professor X to even enter the White Room. There she was attacked by the Void and had to stay in her crystal form for a while to avoid a complete takeover.
So Sentry seems to have the dangerous telepathy-level to affect characters even with a high resistance to telepathy, or who are simply powerful telepaths and should be able to prevent him from doing so, yet they failed.

Old Post Nov 27th, 2011 02:37 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Enzeru
1. Sentry is not the only one in the team. If you're talking about 1v1's then yeah, it would probably take a while to realize that, but at the same time it should be obvious to feel that Superman is getting stronger and stronger thanks to Sentry's solar energy output.

In the team fight, I'm quite sure that the others who have better energy manipulation feats would realize that it would be a way to go to take Superman out and it would be basically the best way to do it, since they would take 1-2 opponents out without harming them, so yeah it would be totally in character.

And it's also not Polaris VS Superman, but Sentry VS Superman or in this special case many energy manipulators VS Superman.
Of course Superman has also his teammates and that's what would make the fight interesting in the long run.

2. Nothing. He can fly up into the orbit and spend some high quality time in front of the sun, but it would take a while while the fight would go on and on on the ground.
What's stopping the Sentry from draining Supermans solar energy again and getting stronger in the process?
Since that's what the Super Soldier Serum did to the Sentry. It gave him a photosynthetic reaction: He absorbs solar radiation passivly and gets stronger.

3. I don't doubt that, but it's still debatable if he could resist Sentry's telepathy / empathy. I would actually not go into the telepathy / empathy way to declare Sentry's victory, since his telepathic powers are very inexperienced, but he was still able to use his telepathy in a offensive way and affected the Hulk who is immune to it.

He erased Professor X's, Emma Frosts and many other peoples (like Dr. Doom) memories more then once, Emma needed a permission to enter his mind where she built a White Room and later on she still needed the help of Professor X to even enter the White Room. There she was attacked by the Void and had to stay in her crystal form for a while to avoid a complete takeover.
So Sentry seems to have the dangerous telepathy-level to affect characters even with a high resistance to telepathy, or who are simply powerful telepaths and should be able to prevent him from doing so, yet they failed.


1. So would Sentry not be a liability, then?
2. Superman doesn't need to be in orbit, though. If the sun is shining, he's charging.
3. That would be fine and dandy, if we were only taking the mini in to account stick out tongue

Also, I seriously think Marvel are at a disadvantage due to Henshaw taking over Bill and turning him against his team-mates.

Old Post Nov 27th, 2011 02:44 PM
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Starscream M
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by -Pr-


Also, I seriously think Marvel are at a disadvantage due to Henshaw taking over Bill and turning him against his team-mates.
wouldn't bill's asgardian enchantment protect him from henshaw taking over?


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Old Post Nov 27th, 2011 02:47 PM
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Enzeru
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by -Pr-
1. So would Sentry not be a liability, then?
2. Superman doesn't need to be in orbit, though. If the sun is shining, he's charging.
3. That would be fine and dandy, if we were only taking the mini in to account stick out tongue

Also, I seriously think Marvel are at a disadvantage due to Henshaw taking over Bill and turning him against his team-mates.


1. I think it depends. It would be the writers decision. Both scenarios would make sense. Either Sentry passivly amping Superman with the solar energy output, or Sentry realizing it in the beginning and using energy-drain to depower him.

I also don't think it's actually something the Sentry has to do specificly, but more something like that he can do while doing other things. For example he did not have to stand next to the person he healed and point with his finger in the right direction. He went away and the person healed, so I assume that he could maybe heal his teammates in the process.

2. Yeah, you're right about that, but I think that he can be drained quicker, then he can absorb solar radiation to gain his strenght back and that's the way for Team Marvel to depower him without hurting him, since it would not be in their character to basically kill off an opponent.

3. I think even the showings besides his first mini portray him as a very powerful being.
Of course he was over the top in his first mini and still very powerful in his second one, but his powerlevel varies with his mental stability.
If he is unstable, then he is also a lot weaker, but he is still damn powerful.

For example:

- When he fought WW Hulk he was very unstable and therefore very weak, but he still had the upper hand in the fight and stopped Hulk in the end and that's actually pretty neat, if you think about some of WW Hulks feats. Of course there was a lot of PIS during the entire arc, but it's still hard to deny that it was a very powerful version of the Hulk.

- He also fought the Collective who killed Alpha Flight and easily overpowered Binary, who is a planet buster, yet an unstable Sentry came along and stalemated the Collective long enough until they found a way to defeat him.

From there it can only get better.
Moments where the Sentry got outplayed like for example where he got overloaded by Hammond (Human Torch) ... That was just weird - a plot device just to remove him as fast as possible from the battlefield, since there is no point in him soloing simply everyone on the field. His powerlevel would allow him to do so.

Last edited by Enzeru on Nov 27th, 2011 at 03:03 PM

Old Post Nov 27th, 2011 02:58 PM
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abhilegend
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Enzeru
In his fight with Photon he was drawing energy from everywhere and he and Photon were destroying worlds while holding back. They were in a microverse, so they were able to show off a little bit =P


You mean this
(please log in to view the image)

So this means this is also true
(please log in to view the image)

Superman and wonder woman are two mightiest beings in the universe. It was just a hyperbole because sentry has never drawn energy from everywhere. Beta ray bill was destroying planets after planets in his fight against Stardust which was actually shown on panel not like "enough energy to shred worlds" while Captain america watches all of this. So does that means bill is stronger than Thor or any other high herald due to this. No when he has other showings to prove he is still a peer of them.



quote:
Ruin, Blackstar, Dr. Polaris and probably other instances. For example where Superman was hit by a shrinking ray. He was in a microverse and Batman had to save him, since Superman was slowly dying without the Sun to amp him, so yeah. Superman needs solar radiation.


So, Ruin used red sun radiation to siphon off superman's yellow sun reserves which he automatically expelled instantly and I missed the part where Sentry was one of the closest friends of superman who studied his physiology for years and knew about his body more than him.

(please log in to view the image)
(please log in to view the image)

Blackstarr only made superman's brain signals move slower, where did she siphon off his energy.
Polaris didn't drain his energy, he made all electro magnetic radiation bend around him so he was nearly blind.
(please log in to view the image).

What other instances, I am unaware of any other.

quote:
Holding it in his hands? He was not lifting the Cosmic Cube, he was containing it. Therefore we can assume that the Cosmic Cube was escaping and Sentry was holding it together, basically absorbing it's power to stabilize it.


He was not absorbing any power from it, that's for sure however he was holding it. There was no indication of it in the narration and it's purely speculation that he was drawing power from it.
(please log in to view the image)

quote:
Would that be that unbelievable?
Voidsentry easily defeated the Molecule Man, who was retconned to be a half of a Cosmic Cube.

While many people tend to scream "PIS PIS PIS", it was still very well explained and said that Molecule Man never had to deal with Sentry's molecules and that he was inexperienced with something like them.
He simply got overpowered later on and once the people realize that, they tend to scream: "MOLECULE MAN RETCON, MOLECULE MAN RETCON!", but the fact is still that there was no further retcon of the Molecule Man character after the first one and that the retconned Molecule Man was still shattering galaxies and different timelines in his fight with the Beyonder.

The only thing about him during the Dark Avengers was his mental state, since he was basically nuts and desperate, creating illusions of beings like Dormammu and Mephisto, since he was searching for friends. That's what he also said to the Sentry before he ripped him apart.
Molecule Man had his powerlevel but he was still not going full out on anything besides the Sentry, which he hit with a direct beam. Later on he got overpowered by Voidsentry and it was over.


We are not talking about voidsentry here.


quote:
I think that a stable Sentry (as portrayed in his first mini) as the potential to bring Superman down, since he has simply a greater variety of powers and ways to take Superman down.

+ Intangibility and invisibility (both probably on a pretty good scale, since he phased through bullets while holding up a car and even with super senses there doesn't seem to be a way to sense him, if he goes invisible)
+ Energy / radiation absorbtion (enough to contain cosmic cubes)
+ Powerful telepathy (enough to affect Savage Hulk who is practically invulnerable to telepathy because of his brute nature and the mind-erasing of over 6 billion peoples and even animals)


All of that you listed are wash against superman. Superman has also used intangibility against doomsday's lightning/fire attack and Mongul's energy attack. He used invisibility against white martians who were unable to sense him. Who were these metas sentry used his invisibility? Superman has resisted Hector hammond who was controlling every superhero on earth and Despero who made martian manhunter and Aquaman his bitches simultaneously.

Sentry neither has strength feats nor speed feats to compete against superman. I would give Kal 7/10 against him.

quote:
... And if the Void appears, it's all over with Superman anyway since all the Void would have to do would be to mind-rape Superman and drain his life force. If the Parasite can do it, then the Void will be able to do it too and I honestly don't think that there is ANYTHING Superman would be able to do to the Void.


Again we are not talking about Void here.

Last edited by abhilegend on Nov 27th, 2011 at 03:21 PM

Old Post Nov 27th, 2011 03:18 PM
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