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The Borg vs The Wraith
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Darth Truculent
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The Borg vs The Wraith

This is a battle between the Borg of Star Trek and The Wraith of Stargate: Atlantis

The Borg have launched an all out invasion. Who wins this battle?


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2009 02:54 AM
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bayhunter12
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The borg would win hands down.


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Old Post Nov 22nd, 2009 12:08 AM
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jaden101
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I don't know much about the Wraith. I've only ever seen 1 episode with them in it. Very much reminded me of the main bad guy from Hellboy 2.

So I won't comment on who'd win. Might read up a bit on the Wraith if I have time.


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Old Post Nov 22nd, 2009 12:15 AM
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The Borg. The Wraith ships were never the most powerful, and their shields were absolutely terrible.


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Old Post Nov 23rd, 2009 02:59 AM
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BruceSkywalker
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the borg destroy them


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Old Post Nov 30th, 2009 07:29 AM
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zeel
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Borg destroys them the only reason they beat the ancients is do to 50 against 1. They wont be able to zerg the borg with numbers and the borgs tech is im sure on par with the ancients.

Old Post Oct 23rd, 2011 11:51 PM
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Omega Vision
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Borg.

But the Super Hive Ship from the finale would probably ragestomp a Cube Ship.


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Old Post Oct 24th, 2011 09:16 PM
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ThorinWoofer
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First off, if the enterprise can recalibrate and adjust like a billion times and defeat the Borg, then the wraith don't get stomped.


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Old Post Oct 29th, 2011 02:25 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Thoren
First off, if the enterprise can recalibrate and adjust like a billion times and defeat the Borg, then the wraith don't get stomped.


recalibration is always a temporary measure. the borg always eventually adapt.


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Old Post Oct 29th, 2011 02:36 AM
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ThorinWoofer
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And they always eventually get defeated.

They fire on the Enterprise twice, shields go down all the way to 10%, but the subsequent 20 shots fired, don't do shit.

I would say if it's one borg cube against one hive ship, if the hive ship fire continuously, then they win.


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Old Post Oct 29th, 2011 03:05 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Thoren
And they always eventually get defeated.

They fire on the Enterprise twice, shields go down all the way to 10%, but the subsequent 20 shots fired, don't do shit.

I would say if it's one borg cube against one hive ship, if the hive ship fire continuously, then they win.


They only got defeated by the Enterprise because Picard had intimate knowledge of them, which the Wraith won't have.

When the borg have wanted to destroy the enterprise, they've almost succeeded, and forced the enterprise to turn tail and run like hell.

I don't see how if the borg adapt.


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Old Post Oct 29th, 2011 03:12 AM
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MF DELPH
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A single Borg Cube destroyed 39 Federation ships in about 45 minutes (TNG: Best of Both Worlds; Battle of Wolf 359). The only way the Enterprise defeated that cube was due to Picard instructing Data on how to put the Borg into sleep mode through a backdoor command. In Voyager they had to co-opt Borg tech in order to create a defense and were still out gunned. It took Future Janeway infecting herself with a bio weapon virus and tricking the Borg into assmilating her to defeat them.

Neither of those options are likely in this battle.


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2011 01:15 AM
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Omega Vision
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by MF DELPH
A single Borg Cube destroyed 39 Federation ships in about 45 minutes (TNG: Best of Both Worlds; Battle of Wolf 359). The only way the Enterprise defeated that cube was due to Picard instructing Data on how to put the Borg into sleep mode through a backdoor command.

It's also worth noting that the reason for them stomping the Federation was also Picard's knowledge of Federation tech and tactics.

The moral of this story is that whichever side has Picard wins.

Edit: I'm not saying the Borg's technological superiority wouldn't have necessary won them the day either way, just that I don't think they'd have won Wolf 359 so decisively without Picard's insider knowledge and tactical genius.


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2011 02:22 PM
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MF DELPH
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I do.

It was shown that they'd already taken down more technologically advanced races than the Federation members consisted of, for one thing. The main point in assimilating Picard was to make him a liaison to facilitate the assimilation of Earth with less resistance (as they stated when he was brought aboard the cube). They had already assimilated Federation technology prior to the events of Q Who? (via the events in ST:First Contact, and further expanded upon during ST:Enterprise. First Contact created a predestination paradox as the Borg became aware of humanity prior to Q Who?, and the Borg assimilated early Starfleet officers from the Captain Archer era, as well as assimilating 7 of 9's parents prior to Q Who?). The Enterprise was no match for a Cube at all prior to Picard's assimilation, and all other Star Fleet Ships at the point of Wolf 359 were inferior to the Enterprise in crew and armaments (as the Cube incursion led to the Federation developing more powerful weaponry, like the Defiant Class warships, for use should another invasion occur), and during Q Who? they assimilated a portion of the Enterprise itself and analyzed it. If you'll recall, Picard had to ask Q to save them because the Borg had them dead to rights. They also assimilated several Federation and Romulan colonies afterwards.

So yeah, Picard or not, the Borg would have destroyed the fleet with ease. Assimilating Picard actually led to their defeat as they hadn't factored in the devotion of his crew and Riker's plan to bring him back from the Collective, which led to his being able to give Data the sleep command. If not for that Earth would have been assimilated.


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Old Post Nov 4th, 2011 06:31 AM
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Omega Vision
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You don't think Picard's intimate knowledge of Federation tactics (to some extent he pretty much wrote the book on it during his time) had something to do with the absoluteness of the victory?


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Where the faint murmurs now dwindling
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Old Post Nov 4th, 2011 12:31 PM
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MF DELPH
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A small part. The Borg were already too much for Picard, who was Starfleet's best captain and had Starfleet's best ship. They were no match for the Borg either way. If anything Picard's knowledge simply made sure the cube took out the fleet at Wolf 359 more efficiently in a top threat to lower tier threat sequence, but the massacre would have taken place whether he were Locutus or not. Actually, I think if they'd just attacked Earth without assimilating Picard they would have been successful in the overall attack and assimilated Earth. Picard's presence became their Achilles Heel.


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Old Post Nov 4th, 2011 04:33 PM
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Omega Vision
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by MF DELPH
A small part. The Borg were already too much for Picard, who was Starfleet's best captain and had Starfleet's best ship. They were no match for the Borg either way. If anything Picard's knowledge simply made sure the cube took out the fleet at Wolf 359 more efficiently in a top threat to lower tier threat sequence, but the massacre would have taken place whether he were Locutus or not. Actually, I think if they'd just attacked Earth without assimilating Picard they would have been successful in the overall attack and assimilated Earth. Picard's presence became their Achilles Heel.

I take issue with the idea that Enterprise getting stomped by one Cube means that 40 (albeit all individually inferior to Enterprise) ships acting in tandem should get stomped with the same ease.

That to me suggests that either the Enterprise is equal to 40 Federation ships (which is just silly) or that the Borg had a major trump card besides technological superiority.


__________________

“Where the longleaf pines are whispering
to him who loved them so.
Where the faint murmurs now dwindling
echo o’er tide and shore."

-A Grave Epitaph in Santa Rosa County, Florida; I wish I could remember the man's name.

Old Post Nov 4th, 2011 09:01 PM
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MF DELPH
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It's not a matter of the Enterprise being equal to 40 ships, it's a matter of the Borg being able to adapt to and overcome the best the Federation had to dish out. Regardless of how many ships the Federation Fleet consisted of the determining factor is they all used the same weaponry/technology (which, as I stated before, prompted Starfleet to up the ante and create more powerful weapons/ships, e.g., Defiant Class). Once the Borg adapted to the modulating phaser frequencies and photon torpedoes the numbers didn't matter, they had a defense that nullified the Fleet's offense. Unless those ships all rammed into the cube and caused a massive warp core breach they were going to lose as the weapons they employed, which were all Starfleet standard issue, weren't effective.

What's 40 flamethrowers going to do to a non-combustible material that one flame thrower couldn't if they're all creating the same flames?


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Old Post Nov 5th, 2011 03:28 AM
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Omega Vision
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by MF DELPH
It's not a matter of the Enterprise being equal to 40 ships, it's a matter of the Borg being able to adapt to and overcome the best the Federation had to dish out. Regardless of how many ships the Federation Fleet consisted of the determining factor is they all used the same weaponry/technology (which, as I stated before, prompted Starfleet to up the ante and create more powerful weapons/ships, e.g., Defiant Class). Once the Borg adapted to the modulating phaser frequencies and photon torpedoes the numbers didn't matter, they had a defense that nullified the Fleet's offense. Unless those ships all rammed into the cube and caused a massive warp core breach they were going to lose as the weapons they employed, which were all Starfleet standard issue, weren't effective.

What's 40 flamethrowers going to do to a non-combustible material that one flame thrower couldn't if they're all creating the same flames?

I just remember Picard being accused by some High Command officials of giving the Borg the decisive advantage. Of course admittedly that could just have been them being irrational and looking for a scapegoat.


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“Where the longleaf pines are whispering
to him who loved them so.
Where the faint murmurs now dwindling
echo o’er tide and shore."

-A Grave Epitaph in Santa Rosa County, Florida; I wish I could remember the man's name.

Old Post Nov 5th, 2011 05:24 PM
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I can't help but wonder how Wolf 359 would have gone if the producers had used the "photon torpedoes can still get through" stance.


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Old Post Nov 6th, 2011 06:14 PM
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