Argh, who is in charge at Marvel? They don't have Rucka of all people locked down for future work? Jesus Christ. They should be throwing any project he wants at him to keep him happy. All the witless "talent" the sign to exclusive contracts... and they just ignore a writer of Rucka's caliber.
__________________
Play League of Legends for free and reference me - GentlemanZombie - when you join
I don't know about that I think with enough prep hes capable of doing it. Like Rucka said Punisher already knew something like this was going to happen and hes already planned for it.
Rucka did indicate hes going to lose but he is going to give them hell.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
I like Rucka, really, but yeah, massive PIS and jobbing will be in play for Frank in order to not lose in a single comic. I also like the Avengers psychology of deciding to crack down on Frank suddenly. This should have been a New Avengers only sort of thing; there's no reason the likes of Iron Man and Thor should be dealing with Castle.
Serioulsy have you guys got amnesia or something? Didn't Punisher take on Norman Osborn and The Hood recently? Isn't Punisher one of the few guys to come the closet to killing Cap with prep (probably didn't succeed because he had apprehensions). Wait didn't Punisher actually program a security system Microchip couldn't break into to....
Serioulsy some of you guys need to stick to debating about DC abstracts.
You need to read the interview.
I don't think he could do that to Cap with prep, hes not doing it to Punisher.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
I actually did read the interview. Rucka clearly stated that Frank has contingencies for the Avengers. If you think Punisher with prep, without PIS/jobbing/plot device can outright beat the likes of Steve, Tony, and Thor and their pals, you'd be wrong. His showings in Dark Reign were good, but Norman isn't Stark. A mentally degrading Tony was able to keep several steps ahead of Norman and even bragged about it.
I think Batman, with prep, handling the JLA is almost always sprinkled with various degrees of PIS. No reason why Frank dealing with the Avengers wouldn't be, either.
And yes, unless Frank has Reed, Doom, or Pym level prep time and resources, I have a hard time imagining him beating Iron Man without some heavy context.
That's irrelevant. Not arguing hes going to win, I'm arguing hes going to give them a hard time with a lot of prep. There not high feats for Punisher at all. It's pretty standard.
Also I don't know about that at all. If Punisher had access to alot of high-tech equipment like Batman, he could take out alot of powerful people. In fact I'm betting if Punisher had access to the same equipment that Tony Stark did, hes beating Tony Stark in a prep war. Punisher's weakness is the equipment he has access to.
Hes kind alike Nick Fury. Nick Fury isn't a tech guy but he has access to hiugh-tech equipment, it's his shrewdness that makes him hard to beat.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
And like if Iron Fist was a kryptonian he'd wtf pwn Superman. See the problem with that? Prep characters utilize very different kinds of prep due to their different ways of thinking and lives.
The Avengers operate on a much higher scale then him and and do things he could never do on his own. Him putting up a decent fight against them is either flat out pis or him using way better stuff then he can normally acess while they are operating either middle of the road or flat out low level.
LOL Norman Osborn is a tactical genuis. Norman Osborn wasn't just taking on Tony Stark but craploads of people. Do you not realise how much power Norman had and the people he had to deal with?
Actually I don't know about that at all. Batman being able to give them a hard time but not beating the JLA is PIS?
Of course hes going to have access to high-tech equipment. What do you think hes going to take them on with, an AK47? If Punisher had the same equipment that Tony has Tony is going to lose.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
Do you understand the concept of if somebody has feats to back something up then it's not PIS? The Avengers don't operate on a mich highier scale than Norman Osborn and The Hood. Anyone that has been shown to be tactically superior to Cap on more than ocassion and nearly killed him with little prep can take on The Avengers with craploads of prep.
Really quite simple.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
Ok so like I said, basically Punisher's high feats are all fine and dandy but the avengers aren't. Frank at his best isn't soling The avenegrs at their best unless he has better prep then he ahs ever had on his own before.
Nearly killing Cap is nowhere near the same as taking, Thor, Ms marvel, Iron Man and Rulk (plus cap and the others) at once when they aren't jobbing.
But I doubt you'll see that since this is Punisher we're talking about
Um, no, he is not. He is a shrewd politician and manipulator with various degrees in science, notably being a great chemist and decent weapons designer. He is, in no way, shape, or form, on par with Tony Stark, which was repeatedly hammered (no pun intended) home during Dark Reign. He used existing tech and had other people smarter than he help him out immensely for virtually all of his plots. Norman basically lucked out immensely and stepped in to fill the power vacuum left behind by Stark himself.
Batman's prep for the JLA is often at the expense of the intelligence and capabilities of the League members themselves. Batman's prep against Superman is almost always served with some PIS or plot device to ensure Superman doesn't just end him in a moment's notice.
If Frank uses Starktech against Stark, he's going to lose barring PIS and plot device, especially considering the number of people and time Starktech has been used against Tony himself. The idea that Frank can beat Iron Man with his own tech is pretty ridiculous.
Again their not high end feats. The reason why he was able to take on Norman Osborn and The Hood was because he had high-tech equipment.
Thats why I compared him to Nick Fury. Nick Fury is not capable of building hi-tech equipment and if he runs into Iron Man he can't beat him unless he has prep. But if you give him the equipment he going to beat Tony in a prep war because hes tactically superior.
If you look at Punishers feat hes capable of doing it and hes got alot of feats to prove it.
No it's really quite simple. Captain America is the best tactician The Avengers have. Punisher beat him with little prep. Punisher in this mini is going to have craploads of prep. As Rucka indicated from the interview Punisher knew this was coming and had been planning for ages.
Heres an analogy. If I can lift 1 ton I can take on a vampire. Give me elite class 100 strength I can take on Spiderman and a crapload of other people. Substitute strength for prep and thats the situation we have. Not sure if I can explain this better.
See now you're just playing with semantics. Being a shrewd polictcian and a manipulator doesn't have anything to do with tactics? So basically his tactics made him one of the most important people on marvel earth and that makes you not impressive?
Serioulsy what point are you trying to make. That Norman is dumbass? That Norman is a moderate tactician? I didn't read the arc but didn't Norman take on The Avengers again? Norman is up there with the very best.
As I stated earlier he wasn't just taking on Tony Stark but loads of other people as well. Hell I'm pretty sure I saw at least one example where Tony had help or luck.
Not even sure if thats a good point.
Maybe so but depending on what members your talking about The JLA are arguably more powerful than The Avengers. Bottomline Pun took on Norman and The Hood, which indicates hes capable of doing it.
Not neccesarily his own tech but equipment just as advanced. No it isn't because Punisher has been shown to be smarter than Cap and if Tony went up against Cap in a prep war he'd lose.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
Last edited by Deadline on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:10 PM
KMC Community Forums
Jul 18th, 2012 05:43 PM
