Quick post written from my phone: I know Fantomex, and Fantomex doesn't get E.V.A. since it's a property of the body of fantomex, not his mind. The rational is that the nervous system that is EVA is not equipment outside of him but rather his own body that must be taken out to be utilized as such, so mr. Leo cannot use it as separate technology to then be integrated back into Fantomex. The same goes for misdirection as that is a property of his body, not mind. All he'd possess from his addition to your team is the ceramic plate mask which gives his brain (which in this case belongs to mr. Reyes) and affords him psi shielding, some pistols, and a snazzy white coat. The lab is cool, too.
So again, EVA IS IN FACT A PROPERTY OF HIS BODY, NOT MIND and cannot be utilized without drafting his actual body that has the nervous system to remove to be used as a vehicle. Misdirection is a power of his body makeup and would be off the table for a body not possessing the brains or nanites of his sentinel-human composition. He just has one human brain to use.
Leo is quite open to me and an integral part of his plan was missing in the genesis of the draft. He cannot both have the 3 minds to use and not start off with one of them specifically, EVA not be in his body to begin with, let alone the 3rd brain/mind. Leo wrote himself that he gets all three minds, yet he also wrote the EVA starts off as a separate entity. It won't exist in this match.
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Last edited by psycho gundam on Jul 27th, 2013 at 04:22 PM
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
POST NUMERO UNO!!1!
okay, so, once more unto the breach.....
butttttt, before we do, a heavy sigh.... i mean, seriously, this line of argument is...a little insulting tbh. i mean, really? you think i'm what, dumb enough to put together an amlagam that just....wouldn't work?? i'll address his reply post just this once then i'll focus on the match and direct any other concerns about rulings to curry himself. when i drafted fantomex, i EXPRESSLY ASKED ABOUT ALL THE THINGS THAT PG BROUGHT UP. in fact, i even brought it up in conversation in the thread when i very specifically asked the tourney members if drafting fantomex gave the drafter access to EVA and misdirection. id was first to chime in with a YES, and id is someone i know knows fantomex very well. and, while i value id's knowledge in most things x-related, more importantly--curry said YES. no other member spoke up during the discussion, which is where things should have been brought up. while curry and i agreed that fantomex is a complex character to sort through, after several pm's back and forth, he agreed to allow me access to my 3 minds, EVA and misdirect via the MIND character. disagree to your hearts' content, feel an injustice has been perpetrated, but.....it is as simple as that. rationally speaking, your mind is part of the nervous system--so EVA is literally an EXTENSION of his mind--inside or outside his body. fantomex also literally possesses THREE minds, so in drafting him i got all 3--how could you rationally choose just one? which one? the misdirect is also a function of his mind--his brains were cloned, one got misdirect, one got nanites and one got his softer side--all 3 personalities are direct reflections of his minds/psyches. but more to the point--i would never have drafted him had curry not approved these things. it's weird. it's like people think these things were not thought through and discussed and okay'd already. bottom line: if i didn't KNOW i was granted access to all these abilities, i would NOT have chosen the amalgam as, you know, he'd be useless.
aside dealt with, let's look at the actual character debate shall we? or what there is of one.....
this was, unfortunately for him, a case of putting all your eggs in one basket. and what's transparent is that it was the wrong one. instead of debating my character vs his character, he instead went ahead and banked everything on getting my amalgam shut down. as a result, he didn't bother to put any new thought into a strategy which i accounted for in every way possible.
(1) his drainer is utterly useless as we'll never be anywhere near him (good thing for him, tbh, as i have a nice little answer for his drainer should he press the issue and somehow feel he CAN get close to me...). my other selves, upon reappearing, are scattered around the city, and EVA was tiny, intangible and buried under the ground where she would easily detect and follow his presence and the odd energy sig of the drainer, then instantly relay the info to me. a quick scan showing EVA scanning/monitoring and relaying info to fantomex and also showing her scanning powers work even at the nano-level. there are many other examples i can show if needed:
he would have to be absurdly and blindly lucky to get close to her location. and since she could monitor him in secret, easy enough for her to move around and avoid him. he's got northstar, but EVA is also extremely fast, able to reach escape velocity and cover wide areas of the US in seconds. the tourney max of mach 10 is something she can easily achieve and exceed were it allowed. as well, factor in the fact that the ground/concrete would serve as protection for her and lessen the drainer's already limited range of what, maybe 100m? and he would literally have to be standing on top of her to affect her at all. on top of ALL that, she is literally alone on the field for all of 3-4 seconds. he could NEVER find her in that time.
(2) misdirect: his character has no answer, at all, for misdirection. especially amped as it now is. once i return from the BLEED and cast the misdirect, i can literally make him see ANYTHING. he could see me and EVA lying depowered and dead at his feet and completely assume the match is done and that he has in fact been recalled to the pre-battle area. once he feels he is safe outside the battlefield, he will have lowered his defenses completely and the nukes would destroy him utterly. his speed and processing powers are completely and utterly nerfed here as he is caught in the misdirect and destroyed while believing firmly he had done everything right and won the match already. a lesser misdirect convinced a CELESTIAL ship it teleported to another planet. he has no chance to see through an even STRONGER misdirect, with far lesser technology.
(3) he failed to bring in anything new, and did not in any way use prep to try and counter....anything i did here. we're not there to scan immediately and he won't find EVA. my attack was unorthodox and not something he could have accounted for anyway and he never even TRIED to account for the misdirection or argue against its effectiveness. he didn't bother because he knows there IS no answer for it--hence the direction of his opening rebuttal. that isn't going all no-limits on everyone either. it has enthralled every type and level of being it has been used against including the likes of betsy and xavier, jean (phoenix powered), the shadow king, celestially amped wolverine in AoA, as well as has been mentioned, the celestial's own living tech. and yeah, all of that BEFORE the amp i have given it. he did nothing new in prep, all his plans were accounted for and he placed all his eggs in the wrong basket, focusing NOT on the battle he's in, but choosing rather to try and cast doubts on my amalgam when in fact all mentioned issues have been dealt with and approved WEEKS ago. i'm afraid pg's forecast is for a season of pain, followed by a nuclear winter.....time for a trip back to the drawing board.....
I was on my phone at the time so I didn't really feel like going into anything else *shrug*
Anyway, ID is a competitor of yours and too drunk on his own plans to give a shit about misdirection, Curryman okay'd it but that's not the level of scrutiny the judges will apply, after all he did okay all of what Beatboks tried to do. :/
So you said that the nervous system is a subset of the mind....?
Sacrebleu!
Do you get the rest of his organs, hard, and soft tissues also? This makes no sense at all. You get his mind and the products of that, and a base of operation, not physical manifestations of the living being itself somehow roaming outside of the body.
"when diabolik returns from the BLEED--only seconds after having entered it--with his temporal duplicates, we are scattered around the perimeter of the city."
Sacrebleu! x2
Is that...time shenanigans? Going to another dimension for a few seconds? Curry must have been jet lagged when he okay'd it, but as I pointed out before he's been wrong about stuff like that. The FF around the arena shouldn't even permit such a thing.
"the 3 temporal clones"
Sacrebleu! x3
That sounds like a violation of the independent construct rule, not to mention time manipulation. Curry, wtf are you putting onto your tongue?
With that out of the way we can argue the match. You said stuff about being close and finding him, well, with the drainer on nobody has to be found anywhere since it's not my amalgam locating anything but rather a large "environmental biorhythm" doing that for me. You simply fall under the power of it since it remains active (at least as long as it takes to perform heart surgery on Luke cage, that includes all the cleanup work to close the arteries, breastplate, and exterior tissue), coupled with the swiftness of Northstar and the speed in which the process takes place, it's not a big deal.
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You just have to show up for a second and you get hit. You therefor lose the gifts you need to do battle with. Even if misdirection was a factor, it in no way stops the drainer from running.
The nuke thing, well, my character's mind is sped up from Tony Stark's base super-genius by Northstar's power. Every aspect of his power is devoted to speed, so his brain functions that control his speed are faster than even Northstar's would be, not to mention X-51's superhuman body. With shields up that are already nuke resistant on-panel, even his body took the brunt of a blast, that leaves 1 out of 3 nukes you launch to do all the damage you need, and that last one could be evaded with raw speed or the minor damage would be healed by the sped up metabolism of my amalgam...but I did mention gathering EXTRA power nodes in prep which are just more fuel for shielding.
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Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
POST THE SECOND!!1!
okey-dokey. so, to reiterate--my amalgam works just the way i planned, EVA is fine, and my plan is a-ok. all legalese dispelled, onward and upward!
unfortunately, nothing really changed. i still accounted for everything he did, and he has no counter for the misdirect. let's address his couple points quickly and see why he's so screwed:
(1) we start on opposite ends of a full-sized and deserted city. his drainer affects an area of MAYBE (and this is being generous) 100m in diameter. given all the radiation sapping concrete above, below and all around us, that 100m would be very spotty and be line-of-sight, or at least only unimpeded distances. by that i mean--it COULD extend 100m, unless buildings are in the way to block it. then it would be less. look at his scans again and see how everyone was bunched up in a nice, open area, all relatively close to each other. compared to the size of the city, the range of his drainer is...very small. EVA is hidden from him a full city distance away. even a middling sized city is about 10 MILES across. the dome is also several hundreds of meters above us. we enter the field. EVA hides underground and i enter the bleed. mach 10 is NOT instant movement by any stretch of the imagination. i prepped the armor to take me to the bleed the instant i hit the BF and EVA is at least as fast as he is and will be underground and moving and scanning before he can reach her--if he even decides to just randomly barge across the BF. when i return, i know precisely where he is, i know he has the drainer (or at least some form of exotic energy weapon that emits a form of bio-based attack) because EVA tells me and she is LITERALLY an extension of fantomex's mind. here he actually uses her to SEE through:
incidentally, that also serves to illustrate how smart fantomex really is and just how familiar he is with the WORLD and its available tech.....
so, as i said--i return, the other me's are scattered through the city, well out of range of his drainer, and i cast my misdirection. ***it's at THAT point that the match is over.*** seriously. it's done. once he's in the misdirection, he has no answer for it. he sees WHATEVER I WANT HIM TO SEE. this isn't just some shoddy illusion. i come as close to crafting a new reality around him as someone can without being a reality warper. he would see me and EVA, somewhere i'm not. he would see and believe that he has drained me and beaten me, then returned to his pre-battlefield base, content in the notion that he had won.
then i blast him to atoms.
(2) as a result of the misdirect, and the belief that he has won, he would have NO SHIELDS (not that his shields would stop the power of 3 simultaneous ground-zero nukes, c'mon.....nor would his nanitic body (all no-limits fallcy speculations aside....) be able to repair him in time to avoid AT LEAST a forum KO). not that i NEED to use nukes. the armor would choose whichever attack it deemed best. here are a couple scans showing the armor's ability to assess and develop countermeasures for perceived threats very quickly:
IMPLICATE ORDER ANNHILIATION FIELD!! LOL BEST. ATTACK OPTION. EVER!! that would basically destroy you at the QUANTUM level, extending the destruction BEYOND the nanite level of your regeneration. possible theological implications indeed. lol
but, honestly, 3 large scale nukes WOULD work though, and leave the entire city a steaming pile of ash.
so, let's review: i enter the BF. that instant EVA hides and i enter the BLEED. EVA (protected from the drainer by the surrounding concrete and her own "undetectability": see RED GHOST) scans and learns his strategy. she immediately lets me know. i return almost instantly, appear all around him and immediately cast a misdirection that makes him believe he has won the match and is perfectly safe. then he dies. there is no logical room for anything else. he would LITERALLY have to be the luckiest guy in the universe to simply randomly fly around (and only at mach 10 don't forget) and get within 100m of me before i THINK "misdirection". and even if that 1 time in 100 000 000 happened, we know 2 other things as a fact:
(a) the drainer DID NOT WORK ON OSBORN'S ARMOR. therefore there is no way, beyond pure speculation, that it would work on my own armored form, especially given the armor's ability to counter attacks.
(b) beetle has already handled one of the best power drainers out there--the PARASITE:
now i know, it's a pain in the a$$ to read. it was a special "ALL SPANISH ISSUE". figures. however, there ARE handy-dandy translation notes at the back. here's what they say:
POWER NULLIFIER FEEDBACK. it actually not only KO'd parasite (whose powers ALSO work biologically--he drains LIFE ENERGY from his opponents and has drained power/life from almost every type of entity, similar to the drainer....) but removed all his stored powers. a similar attack would certainly destroy the drainer were it brought near me, and i think it not unreasonable to suggest the resultant feedback may actually cause a disruption in PG's character! so, even if you somehow buy into the idea that he just RANDOMLY runs around the field and HAPPENS to run into one of the versions of me (he obviously can't run into ALL of the me's.....) his drainer would be demolished and he could very easily find himself taking a bath in its depowering energies.....
recapping: i planned for everything he did. his attempts to have my amalgam and plan tossed out failed. he has no answer for.....anything i've done. once in the misdirection, the case is closed and his fate is sealed. that's it. shows over. head on home y'all.
This means that Curryman admits that his judgement is fallible, so the input of "tourney veterans" is valuable to him.... very important point.
Anyway. Permitted BB even gets to use the very much part of Fantomex's body EVA/actual nervous system for his initial strategy, it has to go off without a hitch.
He gets hurt a bit and all that stuff goes, and it's a one off. Temporal copies are gone.
Grave oversight on your part here.
1) The drainer not working on the Patriot armour is because it was fashioned by Tony Stark himself, though once it was compromised Osborn was on his ass like the rest, which leads to..
In the scan I posted of the Sentry getting totally drained that wouldn't give your character the time to attempt any maneuvers to counter act it even if we buy Fantomex gaining every piece of knowledge there is to gain in 30 seconds as well as more research on top of that, especially with the 2 additional minds (one being EVA) are not what was drafted, not to mention Sentry holding (being generous) 10X the power of Blue Beetle at any given time. You simply have no time to entertain such a thing. http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums...zpsf8302e3c.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums...zps40346bfd.jpg
There goes all that power, no half way "Hulk Hogan, crowd participation resurrection" to get out of it, you lose it all at once. Hard.
3) the feedback possibly effecting my character is a reach as the unit is separate, plus "Scarab speak" isn't enough evidence for this. I think his mind felt the feedback cause of the nature of how he takes on powers, like Rogue of the X-men. This doesn't concern me in the slightest. You'd be drained without your armour anyway if you want to use your own scans to the tee.... That's right, his armour didn't stave it off.
Fantomex is a peculiar guy to say the least so I really doubt 30 seconds is enough for him to get acquainted with his situation (minus all his gifts) and then do all that research.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
post troix
o-tay, i'll start with rebutting pg's post. as i do, i would ask all the judges to bear in mind: this rebut is almost entirely pointless. the question of whether his drainer would or wouldn't work on me is meaningless because he NEVER GETS CLOSE ENOUGH TO ME TO HAVE IT WORK. i'll reiterate the reasons why in my next post. anyway, to his post:
cool. nice to know my input has some value to him.
tsk. not for judges to decide that, i'm afraid. it has ALREADY BEEN decided. this wasn't me randomly throwing something in like chip with the miracle machine, or boks' plans where they didn't have prior permission. this was me actively inquiring before the tourney began and getting the okay. again, were i not ALREADY allowed this i would have chosen someone else.
huh? not even sure what you're trying to say here. he got hurt because AS he was pulling the rippers out of n-space (which the reach thought impossible, btw) the reach mothership reinforced their cloaks. the additional energy caught him by surprise is all.
the copies didn't leave because he was hurt. they left because their JOB WAS DONE.
wut? where do you get that idea? harrow had to physically HACK osborn's armor to get it to crash. there is no proof the drainer did.....anything at all to the armor, or that the armor was "only saved" because it was fashioned by stark. seriously?
clearly in the first scan the armor was unaffected by the drainer. there is ZERO to suggest harrow just disabled some "imaginary stark protection" with his hack. where'd you get that? proof? harrow was forced to hack it BECAUSE armor is unaffected. when he hacked it, he caused the armor to fly off osborn and osborn crashed to the ground. when osborn was granted control once again, he commanded it to fly back to him like it flew off, and he was fine. the armor was perfect protection. which makes sense since the armor isn't a superpower like the others were. my armor would protect me just fine.
hrm. more thorough research needed methinks. parasite already knew about jaime because he absorbed the memories and powers of his friends:
nice try though. and parasite's powers were only effective, even momentarily, because JAIME was in control. parasite was also using the powers of his friends to help weaken him. when it was the SCARAB in charge (jaime let the scarab take over for one of the very rare times during that particular fight), well, things went a little differently for the parasite when he tried to drain him: http://imageshack.us/f/13/28em.jpg/
and as i already said, fantomex is letting the scarab do its thing. the scarab has already faced power draining and has a countermeasure set. so again, (1) countermeasure in place. (2) armor already proven protection against the drainer. (3) power nullification feedback causes the drainer to explode (not that he ever gets close enough to use it....) and the resultant feedback may very well drain PG as it drained and robbed all the powers of parasite.
not too sure what to say about this. the entire series--BOTH series'--basically depicted a struggle between jaime and the scarab. jaime was kind and gentle and good and constantly kept the scarab in check. fantomex? he's....nothing like jaime, especially his weapon iii brain. fantomex will WILLINGLY allow the scarab to do what it was DESIGNED to do: KILL. it was created to battle lanterns and darkstars, and the reach were powerful enough to force a DRAW in the war between themselves and the lanterns/guardians: http://imageshack.us/f/819/y8w9.jpg/
it is a WEAPON and jaime always had the safety ON. fantomex takes the safety OFF. unfortunately for you, he is a near perfect host for the scarab. no special "mind" is even needed. in fact, the scarab is supposed to completely take CONTROL of the host: http://imageshack.us/f/401/zqiu.jpg/
"YOU ARE THE HOST YOU MUST COMPLY". problem is beetle's scarab was damaged BEFORE bonding to jaime and others before him, so the HOST was left able to control it. all its abilities REMAINED intact. it just can't control its host. so it wouldn't matter WHOSE mind i put in the scarab. i have a fully programmed scarab and am in complete control of it unless i willingly surrender control. hell, jaime himself was just some random teenage kid. and the scarab was STILL under the control of his mind. i just picked someone who is.....not at all at odds with its original programming. the mesh would be FAR more smooth and better suited.
lol
they didn't just "fall apart under stress"! the reach (who CREATED the scarab) sent a SHUT DOWN directive to the scarab. for a time, they were STILL able to shut it out. but they couldn't resist it forever. the shut down code coupled with the 'stress' caused the scarab to shut down. or did it.....? anyway, you (or anyone) could never replicate the feat because no one aside from the REACH know the codes to shut him down. and, as it turns out, jaime WANTED the scarab removed anyway, so it, and jaime, LET itself be shut down: http://imageshack.us/f/443/rkh7.jpg/
notice the quotation marks around "dead". the scarab ALLOWED itself to APPEAR to be shut down to gain access to the mothership's computer systems. and it did.
lol of course what he failed to mention is the fact that THAT scan came at the very end of the fight, after what? 3 pgs where weapon omega (who is a celestial-amped logan who completely controlled his alternate earth and killed almost all of its heroes....) was completely fooled by the misdirect. make no mistake--weapon omega was enormously powerful--more powerful than a well-depicted apocalypse, and far more powerful than that reality's phoenix host. so we have logan, uber amped with celestial tech, enthralled for 3 pages. the misdirect begins on the first page, continues through the splash pages and ends in the last scan only when the misdirect had already served its purpose and jean (the missing 'wife' of logan) had been safely taken away: http://imageshack.us/f/266/88op.jpg/
as you can see, the misdirect was perfectly successful and utterly fooled logan for the entire length of the battle. we saw a celestial ship equally fooled. and don't forget--i was capable of all that BEFORE I AMPED MY MISDIRECTION POWER . it is now FAR stronger and greater in scope. and i need PG's guy (NOT celestially amped, btw...) to be fooled for roughly.... ONE SECOND to send THREE NUKES HIS WAY TO END HIM. all the while, he'll believe himself sitting back, feeling great about his well-earned "victory" over me.
all righty. so, the preliminaries out of the way, let's review why almost none of what i 'defended' matters in the least.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
post quatro--final post!!1!
so, last post. i would like to use it to reiterate the fact that nothing pg said above, or i 'defended' above really has much bearing on this match. tbh, this match was done when he sort of mailed in a repeat OP and instead of focusing on what my guy could do, he chose instead to focus on trying to get my amalgam and strategy thrown out. that didn't work and he's been checkmated ever since. not sure you believe that? well, let's look at things from HIS point of view for a moment, shall we?
he enters the battlefield. first thing he does is scan for me. in his OP, he says "analyze" so perhaps he's not even scanning? i dunno. regardless, he isn't doing anything really, just standing there initially. he of course finds NOTHING. i'm gone momentarily and EVA is undetectable and capable of moving as quickly as he can. at this point, he has 2 options: (1) continue to stand still and scan, or, (2) randomly charge aimlessly across the battlefield in hopes of.... . maybe he flies straight across the BF knowing that's where i SHOULD be? the avenue he chooses to pursue is irrelevant to me. EVA is hidden from HIM, but all the while she is scanning him, watching and learning about what he is doing and feeding me all the info. she will be able to immediately detect the energy sig of the drainer and warn me of the danger. should be easy enough to sense its range as well, which is, again, very small. when we reappear (all THREE of us) almost immediately after leaving, we know PRECISELY where he is, we know he has some exotic weapon (we should be able to determine its purpose without trouble and enact/prepare countermeasures--remember, we have some familiarity with starktech from THE WORLD) and we are as far from him as we need to be, scattered at the edges of the BF. also don't forget: we're intangible. there is an EXTREMELY high probability he will NEVER sense us even when we've returned to the battlefield. i mean, red ghost has broken into the baxter building once and their new plaza once, he's hidden from reed on a ship loaded with reed's own equipment and, of course, hidden from a WATCHER. there is also beetle's own ability to fool scanning processes:
so, with all of that going for us (knowledge of where he is, knowledge of what he has, knowledge of what he is doing, intangibility/undetectability/means of messing with his scans, matching speed and EVA in reserve should we need her....) the instant i/we return, i cast a misdirect and this battle is done. he sees himself drain and kill me, sees himself victorious and returning to his prep area where he lowers his defenses and.....is obliterated. no room for anything else.
boiling things down: for pg to win this, you need to believe he can (1) find us on his scans when we reappear (doubtful especially when i can scramble his scans) (2) THEN overcome his momentary confusion at finding THREE of us, (3) decide WHICH of us to pursue, (4) travel to ONE of us (while we...what? stand still and WAIT for him to arrive....?) across the length of the city (several miles at least), at only mach 10 which we can also reach (5) BEFORE I THINK "misdirect". then you need to believe (6) that the drainer DOES work past my armor and displayed countermeasures AND works INSTANTLY. on top of that, you need to (7) UTTERLY forget that i have TWO OTHER VERSIONS OF MYSELF ALSO IN THE BATTLE, AND EVA WAITING AROUND TO ATTACK IF I NEED HER.
that.....doesn't sound too likely imho.
and JUST in case anyone was wondering about the range of effect or the scope of this UMAMPED misdirect power:
he held onto the misdirect while EVA dropped the horsemen off ON ANOTHER PLANET. yeah, his range is....really good, as was the OLD scope. imagine now that his misdirect is AMPED..... incidentally, he performed that while weakened and injured....
to sum up: there is no logical way he can win this battle. he actually, LITERALLY, has to beat me (all of us) before i THINK. he was snookered from the outset. he dies happy though, fully believing he drained me and killed me. the end.
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Last edited by leonidas on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 02:10 AM
good, the weekend will be awesome so the sooner the better.
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Not enough, and here is why:
I gave him time to prove his case on the matter but he really didn't, and the level of scrutiny his opponent will apply is FAR more than the very busy Curryman is able to, so here's stuff Leo doesn't have:
-A concrete prep period even if certain things are permitted (but we will go over why they are not after).
Maybe if he shut his mind off and let the Scarab do everything in those 30 seconds, maybe he could do his proper research *shrug*
-E.V.A.
Fantomex's primary, removable nervous system that was grown within him, not as an idea but a part of his physique. It's literally a part of his body that once removed allows him to turn on another back-up system so that he can function like normal, but that means that Leo would have to have drafted the body of Fantomex to utilize it. A true acquisition of a mind pick is tech created by that mind, as well as costumes and HQ's, Fantomex having a symbiotic relationship on hurts your case, not strengthens it, but I will slay it now:
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Curryman said you were allowed to use it, but he also allowed the miracle machine in another match, so I'm calling BS on it. It was a mistaken body/power pick no matter how you slice it
-Misdirection.
Fantomex needs EVA for misdirection as they work in conjunction to pull it off as like the man said himself: "she's my mutation
It would be like claiming Thor could use the anti-force blast when he's without mjolnir as the hammer isn't a mind pick either. Misdirection is a property of the Charlie cluster-7/E.V.A. binary consciousness.
Unless it was discussed like this, it's not a done deal.
None of his plan actually took flight, so the only one misdirected....was Leo
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Last edited by psycho gundam on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 02:18 AM
^ Called his "nervous system" in the same scan he posted
Anyway
If his character is somehow operable like he says it will (which it cannot be):
I know about all that, I originally uploaded that. Fantomex's misdirection needs to swap bodies for that stuff to work. 90% of his misdirection feats are of him replacing himself or an ally with his oppositions ally to whittle their forces down, but you don't really have any extra guys who are not you for this to work and still got his jaw cracked for it cause the people he was put up against WERE WEAKER THAN HIM.
speaking of which, those copies are independent constructs, so you only get 1:
Right near 30 seconds of prep, and if one cannot be bent or broken, same goes for the other.
So it's safe to say: "not enough", not to mention in prep I said: "Here X-51 adding the weapons of Post to his own arsenal, this will happen with the Extremis plates as well as spare power nodes, let's say...4 and connect with them" so he has plenty of spare power for shielding as many nukes as you can muster. Here is all the time it takes for him to beef up his defenses: http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/...Man_02_pg07.jpg
Even if the shields somehow fail, he heals underneath them and becomes stronger for the next one.
Expanded consciousness, and oh yes, Curryman allowed me to have access to X-51's programming due to it being part of his body as artificial memory, so it functions like the Scarab. The memory banks as physical storage are there, X-51 would thus be as much tool as he would be body.
Me: "2)since i drafted a robot running on A.I., is his programming as displayed in comics still present in his body? can my mind character speak to that residual data in the body like said iron man suit(s) a.i.?
Curryman: "2) I would say yes. This will be up to the judges but it is a very good example of unlocking the body's extra abilities with a strong mind pick."
However, I won't put too much stock in that and will let the judges decide if that matters or not, no offense to Curryman but multiple sources are required and scientific methods should be applied rather than a decree, which brings us full circle as the meat of the matter is if Leo even has and attack strategy due to extenuating factors.
So no: 3 copies, EVA, misdirection, or win over the bad guy
What you get: your guy just falls down defeated as a character surrounded by hundreds of meters' worth of ass kick takes you down at mach-10.
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Last edited by psycho gundam on Aug 3rd, 2013 at 08:13 PM
A match between two of the most interesting drafts, unfortunately bogged down by a bit of rulings and disputes on that plane. Nonetheless it was a very interesting match-up.
Psycho Gundam; X-51, Iron Man and Northstar
Strongest point:
I probably shouldn't have to say this, but sowing doubt was Psycho's strongest point in this match. He knew full well the contexts of whatever scans Leo brought to the table, and whether or not his suspicions were right on the money, Psycho certainly managed to fuel a little disbelief. This, and he had a really powerful draft. One skirting the border of high-meta, the other a limited low-herald and the last one a Canadian in his own right. Machine-Man was actually a character that I was looking to draft, when I initially considered having someone else run the tourney and entering myself.
Weakest point;
He should have kept to debating the actually disputable parts of my rulings, as opposed to harping on things that were not up for debate. This and the fact that you used the exact same offensive-strategy as you did in your match against Beatboks. Leo would no doubt have carefully considered this.
Leonidas; Blue Beetle, Fantomex and Red Ghost
Strongest point;
Misdirection is overpowered. If there's any impression I've gotten from X-Men and Uncanny X-Force it's that misdirection is hella overpowered. Mainly the fact that it seems to more or less bypass telepathic defences and is in most cases equally effective even if the victim is fully aware that they are being misdirected. I also thought that Blue Beetle's body-pick meshes very well with Fantomex' mind.
Weakest point;
Leo got bogged down with unnecessary strategies. While OK'd by myself, they were still extremely vulnerable to criticism from Psycho and were bound to cause a few judges to raise an eyebrow or two. This kept him from capitalizing on Blue Beetle's offensive output.
This is a match I had a really hard time judging , in the end Psycho had an extremely convincing argument. Something that I had not ever considered before. Misdirection requires someone else to function. In all the examples I've seen Fantomex has always been either body-swapping or tricking people into believing that they did something they were about to do.
I believe that Fantomex could use misdirection on Psycho's character, but he would have to reveal himself in order to do it. Nor do I believe that Psycho's character would be blind-sided when it worked. When Leo's strategy works, and Iron Man wins, he's still going to be more than fast enough to react to a potential attack. An attack that I agree is powerful enough to get through Psycho's shields, but here's the kicker. Once Leo reveals himself in order to pull off a misdirection, he's not going to be able to take advantage of the power-disabler's weakness, the range issue. Damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
i don't believe i have ever complained about a ruling before, but this really and truly has me frustrated and i no longer have faith in this thing. i could easily post the pm after pm that i sent to curry PRIOR to the match to double and triple check the legality of what i did--both the bleed stuff, and more importantly the mind stuff and what my character would be allowed--but seriously, it wouldn`t matter now and i never thought it would be required at all, so didn;t want to legitimatize pg;s line of argument by posting them in thread. guess i should have since it seems no one believed me. curry himself posted in the discussion thread that what i was doing was considered LEGAL, and since it's HIS tourney, and HE made the rules, there should have been no further discussion regarding the legality of what i did, or what my amalgam can do. judges may well have disagreed with his ruling (i could understand that), but they should NOT have been able to simply OVERRULE the convenor of this thing and punish me for what was explicitly allowed MULTIPLE times. as i said--i didn`t just whip the plan up and hope--i did my homework and was ASSURED it was legal. the idea that both judges deemed what i did as illegal after all the time i spent asking that very question is......incomprehensible and vastly frustrating. i suppose i should have posted proof that pg's body is illegal, but i took that up with curry and pg OUTSIDE the match, and curry declared the body was fine, so, guess what--i accepted that, did not attack it and moved on to debate the CHARACTERS in the match. pg even went as far as to threaten to quit were the body (which does not have the number of appearances necessary) disallowed. if there was issue (and yes, i can show the pm where i was allowed THREE MINDS, since in drafting fantomex we GET the mind and he just happened to HAVE 3--and they certainly aren`t `cybernetic....`) with my amalgam and the parts i chose, it should have fairly been discussed IN THE DISCUSSION THREAD long ago. in fact, i myself RAISED the issue and no one had any problems with what i was granted. to have that now thrown into question is......ridiculous.
since the legality of my character and his abilities is no longer considered solid, and since it seems that curry`s decisions can be overturned so easily, i really don`t feel that i can continue in this thing. had i lost in a straight up character vs character contest (as i have in the past) i would have no problem. i have absolutely no desire to spend my time defending my mind-power-body abilities when the time for that has far past and it was ruled on long ago. and when a plan i asked about time and again (and when asked to defend said plan, curry actually TOLD ME SPECIFICALLY i did so very well and he AGAIN reiterated i would have no need to change anything because it was LEGAL) is ruled illegal after the host says it is fine, (as has happened one other time.....) that is NOT ok imo. in fact, it is deliberately misleading as i had several other avenues of attack i may have chosen had i had even a SMALL doubt about the legality of what i was doing. sorry folks. no faith in this thing and absolutely no desire to take part in matches where you need to spend all your time defending things long since decided and ruled legal only to have said legality overturned. maybe this seems petty, but it feels as though i were misled and i cant be bothered putting more work (and these things ARE a lot of work) into this when i no longer feel i can trust what has been explicitly said to me time and again.
How can a judge be swayed by anything when it was legal per the tourney host? Curryman, you should have made the call when Leo's strategy was being questioned. No, you should have pointed it out in his OP! Judges, you should have PMed Curryman about the legality of Leo's plan. This is all stuff which could have been avoided. The tourney host needs to be on top of these issues.
There's no way a person should have to defend their amalgam and plan if it was already good to go. This is where the host should have interjected and made the call.
Congrats to PG for a well written opening round. It's a shame the win comes along with an asterisk. Both participants put a lot of effort into their debates. It does a disservice to both having these things basically void one person's entire write up and amalgam.
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Last edited by Badabing on Aug 13th, 2013 at 02:33 AM
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Jul 27th, 2013 01:47 PM
instead of debating my character vs his character, he instead went ahead and banked everything on getting my amalgam shut down. as a result, he didn't bother to put any new thought into a strategy which i accounted for in every way possible. 
anyway, you (or anyone) could never replicate the feat because no one aside from the REACH know the codes to shut him down. and, as it turns out, jaime WANTED the scarab removed anyway, so it, and jaime, LET itself be shut down:
. maybe he flies straight across the BF knowing that's where i SHOULD be? the avenue he chooses to pursue is irrelevant to me. EVA is hidden from HIM, but all the while she is scanning him, watching and learning about what he is doing and feeding me all the info. she will be able to immediately detect the energy sig of the drainer and warn me of the danger. should be easy enough to sense its range as well, which is, again, very small. when we reappear (all THREE of us) almost immediately after leaving, we know PRECISELY where he is, we know he has some exotic weapon (we should be able to determine its purpose without trouble and enact/prepare countermeasures--remember, we have some familiarity with starktech from THE WORLD) and we are as far from him as we need to be, scattered at the edges of the BF. also don't forget: we're intangible. there is an EXTREMELY high probability he will NEVER sense us even when we've returned to the battlefield. i mean, red ghost has broken into the baxter building once and their new plaza once, he's hidden from reed on a ship loaded with reed's own equipment and, of course, hidden from a WATCHER. 
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