Im going for all the title belts for Low Meta and Below Street characters need love.
That was a very good opener. Psychic abilities and the like are real hard to counter. Unless your a Vampire!
Angel as a undead Vampire with no real physical brain activity is immune to magical and ESP mental assaults. Examples of this is in the show and comics.
Here a man called Billy has the ability to mentally induce hate and anger in men with a touch of his hands on the genetic level. Fails on vampires.
Angel has also proven to be invisible to the psychic detection system of Wolfram and Heart when sneaking into their buildings. There is only two times he been mind control. Once was through a cosmic being who had a glamour power called Jasmine, and the other was from a Necromancer who uses spells to control undead. Since Electra is not a cosmic god or a necromancer, I see no reason for her mental tricks to have any affect on Angel at all.
Yeah for undead Vampire brain!
So the way the match is set up, we have Angel walking along buildings in the darkness of night with those oh so famous stealth skills of his, and clearly seeing sensing Electra with his super vampire senses that tracked many times people across cities. What Electra is doing with her TP is no different than what Jasmine has done, only Jasmine done it way better. What I mean by this is Angel already dealt with what Electra is doing on a bigger scale.
So I see no reason why Angel will not adapt easy to this minor Jasmine situation easy. Now Angel from what I seen has a few advantages himself. As a Vampire he has the advantage here of stats over Electra. While both are equally fast, Angel has better burst of speed when running.
Angel moves faster than Lilah can turn her head even though Angel was over 50 feet away from her.
Point is Vampires in Buffy Verse have great travel speed. Angel can easily close the distance to Electra for close combat. Once in combat I see no reason for Electra to maintain a mental hold on anyone as her entire thought process will be focused on staying alive at that point.
In combat the Speed advantage would be more or less the same. Angel can and does react to bullets as far as speed goes, and has the reaction speed to navigate a dance floor of people in a eye blink. So speed wise I know he can keep up with Electra. However he outclass Electra in Durability and Strength.
Angel is around 1500+ pounds by feats. Im pretty sure Electra is peak human which is more or less 800 pounds by Olympic lifting standards. Some can be seen below. Smashing through solid wooden doors like nothing.
Add to this Angel as a undead Vampire can only be killed in a handful of ways.
1) Wooden Stake to the heart. It has to be wood.
2) Decapitation.
3) Sunlight (not a option in a night time fight)
4) Fire (you would have to burn him to nothing)
Thats it. Angel has a healing factor for damage, and he has a undead body that ignores electricity, cold, organ shots, bleeding to death, and pressure points. he can feel pain, but even then he has tank his throat being slit or stabbed with weapons in his body with no hindrance.
So in short Angel has the slight advantage in strength, and big advantage Durability to begin with. Now the real argument is skill. Its the core of most street level debates. Angel is a 300+ year old Vampire who has fought everything from skilled warrior demons to the very skilled Slayers. I will spend more time on the argument of skill later, but the fact is Angel is very skilled fighter of the Buffy Verse. Couples with his stats and gear, he will win this match.
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You seem to forget that ALL the military force is after you. She only needed like 5 seconds to report you, she does not need to control all the military force. That means helicopters and everything and I saw a supersonic feat from angel. But is he above Hypersonic and can he dodge bullet fire from ALL angles?
Because Elektra sure is.
Here we have her casually blocking MACHINE gun fire with her Sais, Sais are not thick at all so this is a rather impressive feat. http://s593.photobucket.com/albums/...ed_v2_03_09.jpg http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/...ed_v2_03_09.jpg
Elektra blocks and deflects a bullet with her barehand.
Peak Human? No, not even close. Elektra can go against much stronger people than Angel and usually come outs the victor. Like for example
Here fight with Silver Samari who is a CLASS 10!!
Elektra vs Silver Samurai
Cool, while Angel is indeed trying to dodge the entire military force from a giant city, Elektra can indeed make preparations against him. Seeing how he is a vampire, Elektra could probably just use common sense and control citizens to make stakes. Angel would not expect citizens to involved in a fight so that makes them perfect assassins. Elektra could also decapitate him or stab him in the heart herself.
And no, Elektra is far more skilled. She has trained all her life and has defeated some of the greatest Martial Artist ever with ease. Just because he is older does not make him skilled.
So the point of the post is:
Elektra is far faster, she can handle people who are 10x stronger than Angel, she is more skilled and can prevent him from attacking or moving while everyone in the city is a threat to him.
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Last edited by God Cloth Seiya on Sep 10th, 2014 at 02:24 PM
There is alot of assumptions here that I will attempt to counter.
The whole idea of getting the military to attack Angel is a unrealistic stretch of imagination at best.
1) I was in the military, and it takes hours to mobilize anything military.
2) Your mind controling a beat cop. A low level ranking cop. He hardly has the authority to force Dispatch to call in the military or even all cops to his location. I was a Navy MP for two years, I know this
3) Angel also has major connections to the law enforcement of his city (we never specified what city we are in) and can easy call the cops off with his relationship to the detectives he is connected with as well high ranking political demons.
In the end the whole plan of mind controlling a beat cop to call in a Michael Bay film worth of military is just not realistic at all. it can also be easy countered with a phone call.
Now lets discuss the fighting. Angel like I said can close the distance super quick, and I mean quick. If your character has info on Angel being a Vampire, then Angel like wise should know she is a telepath correct? By this line of reasoning Angel will know to attack her and through that break Electra's focus like most low level telepaths do when focusing on a personal fight.
While Electra may seem to have a better resume in skill, I will contest its not by that much of a degree. Angel like I said has fought super beings, and well establish skilled fighters (Faith, Buffy, Spike, Gunn, Conner, ect) and comes out on top. Heck just to prove how skilled Angel is, I will show you what happens when Angel was turned human, and sent to hell.
In Hell Angel was turned human. No Vampire powers. Yet through his raw skill he manage to fight hordes of powerful demons, and other super power establish skilled beings with no problem. Here he fights hordes of Demons by himself with on the fly use of skill and tactics to prevail. He even owns a Demon Lord with a move.
Angel here impressively tricks Spike (a very well establish equal of Angel) into thinking he is still a Vampire with skill alone. then Angel survives the brutal attacks of the Demon Godlike Illyria. Again thanks to Angel use of tactics and back up plans he survives this encounter with the time controlling demon.
The best feat Angel has was fighting as a wounded human against the very establish in skilled Gunn who turned Vampire. Gunn is a human through Seasons 1-5 and comics. he has hours worth of fighting feats as a human against more powerful Vampires and demons. Keeping up with Angel and Spike! Now in this arc he was turned Vampire, and fights a tired Angel who was now the human!
In the end here Angel chose to die so he can reset time! That is skill. That is him as a human vs establish characters (Illiryia, Spike, Conner, Gunn), and super powered beings. That is 300+ years of fighting experience and studying MAs does for you. So while I would not say he is more skilled than Electra, I will argue he is close enough to compete, and his stats as well Vampire durability will put him over.
Now Electra is being argued super fast, but I see no reason for Angel not to match that easy. He does not really deflect bullets cause he is a Vampire and bullets do not harm him unlike Electra.
The point is Angel has no need to dodge bullets or block them like Electra. He can however dodge bullets pretty well, and many times proved to move faster than crossbows or bullet propelled stakes after they are fired. Here he catches a Bolt fired at his back well after it was fired.
Add these bullet timing feats with his speed bursts of faster than human eye can register, and I say it is safe to say Electra is not out speeding him in combat. Heck here Spike states how the Vampire reaction time is so great, he can see Illyria as a blur even though she practically frozen time to run away.
The reaction time of Angel and Buffy Vampires is more than enough to match Electra's speed and attacks. The real question is what Electra will do against a Vampire who can only be harm a specific way? He will no doubt speed blitz her to get her TP unfocused, and no doubt have advantage in strength and durability.
Lol, bullets do NOT harm Elektra, I proved this when I posted Elektra blocking a bullet with heer hand and not being injured(More durability feats in my last post)
You seem this forget what I posted in the opening post. Every trooper is on their way after you (This includes state troopers, Swat teams and Sheriffs) and you have to admit, after or even if Angel can defeat all them at once reinforcements will doubtfully be called so even more troopers will be on the way. The reason I say if is because you still not have not posted a feat that puts Angel above supersonic speed. Based on the speed feats you have posted now he is only supersonic and not above. So bullets coming from all angles (And Big Cities do indeed use helicopters). The difference between Our characters skill and Speed is indeed apart but Elektra takes both by a healthy Margin.
SPEED:
Elektra has consistent feat that put here above standard Hypersonic speeds which is mach 5. Dodging about 2 Machines guns at one time would make you a tier in mach 5 speeds but if you look here there are 5 machine guns and she can casually dodge all of it.
I'd say Elektra is mach 8 and probably even above that based on her feats.
Elektra gets out of her waitress uniform and kills half a dozen men before they can get a shot off. She's casually knocked two of them a good twelve feet into the air.
Here we have Elektra owning TASKMASTER / Zaran / Fatale. TASKMASTER alone is far more skilled than Angel and he was still defeated even though he had help.
So the Thing is Elektra is simply to fast and far more skilled than Angel. She has defeated far more skilled opponents than angel and he will not be able to tag her at all.
Oh and since you like to bring up Angel's age so much, how about I show you Elektra beating someone much much older and far more skilled.
Based on what is shown so far it matches out like this
Strength and Durability: Angel
Speed, Skill, Tactical Advantage, boobs, and weapons: Elektra
I haven't even revealed her durability and strength feats yet.
I must also point out the illusions and mind reading feats again. Your post strictly said he cannot be controlled not that his mind cannot be read. Those are two different things.So with that she will know his every move and then counter what he does, and you still have no answer to the illusions that she can project.
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Last edited by God Cloth Seiya on Sep 10th, 2014 at 09:16 PM
Lets go over speed, because your rating Electra Mach 8 which makes her twice as fast as Spider Man. Oh boy.
You showed her aim dodging Machine guns. Big deal, most street levelers including Punisher can do this.
You showed her sais blocking AR fire. This is a bit impressive, but still nowhere near Mach 1+ combat speed. Merely Mach 1.5 reaction time. She is not out moving the bullets, she is moving only as fast as the next round is loaded and fired in the gun. Impressive, and thats it. Hardly Mach 5 or 8 speeds.
You also state she is bullet proof. Yet knives, swords, and sais all stab her just fine?
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How does that work again? I also suppose Bullseye speed is Quicksilver speed too right?
Now Speed wise I shown Angel covering 100s of feet so fast it looks like he never moved several times. I showed Vampire reaction speed view beings freezing time to what seems still, yet still see said beings. These feats can easily be over anything you showed thus far. In no way is Electra faster. they are even in speed if anything, maybe Angel is a bit faster. Her official Bio in the Encyclopedia shows her as a 2 on the power scale. Meaning she is not even breaking Mach 1 in speed.
__________________ Too much work trying to figure how to size a Sig right to have one.
Now you showed Electra fighting all the big names. Daredevil, Shang Chi, Silver Samurai, ect. I am pretty sure Daredevil is stated, and shown to beat Electra more often than lose to her. Regardless this is the oh so famous popularity stance. My characters are more well known to the world at large, and thus they are more skilled through popularity. Its a stance I find myself against alot as a non Marvel/DC comic reader To counter this is the simple fact that Angel characters have over 100s of hours and comics worth of shown skill. Gunn as I said has 5 seasons worth of skill fighting super human vampires. He also knows Angel for years. Yet when Gunn was turned a Vampire, and Angel was turned human, Angel won that fight.
Seriously, Gunn just made a reference of how he is Bullseye, and the punk kid is Electra. How PERFECT for this debate
However there is much more to this skill than a Gunn reference. He is bottom of the barrel honestly. You see Angel as a Vampire has been forced to fight a little thing called Slayers. Like Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Before we get into Buffy, lets look at her skill. All Slayers are born with Innate skill by this I mean every possible Slayer has the life experience of past Slayers. When they become a Slayer, they even possess the past knowledge of past Slayers, including languages, memories, and yes skill.
But do not take my word for it. Lets see Buffy first fight ever. Remember she is a girl in high school who never took a fighting class or trained to fight ever!
Well that untrained, unskilled girl took down a couple of super human Vampires with no effort. She has that Innate slayer fighting skill. I can post skill feats for Buffy Summers all day (she has like a 100 comics and 6 seasons of shows worth lol) but that is time consuming. The fact is she is insane skilled since birth, and she had trained years in various fighting styles after that. Yet Angel matches her.
Buffy who is easily the greatest fighter in the Buffy Universe and the most skilled in training from the Watchers to her innate past lives skill, she is easily IMO as skilled as Electra.
Now your thinking, "Well Angel lost to her, so Electra would win!" which is false. Buffy has specific Vampire training, knows angel intimately, and has super human strength and durability compared to Electra. Buffy would beat Electra too in a fight
lets look at another very famous and skilled Slayer name Faith. Faith is a Slayer with all the benefits of innate skill too, and some watcher training, as well the super human stats like Buffy. She is basically a slightly less skilled Buffy, however she has more ruthlessness to make up for it.
During her time as a evil b***h Angel was fully able to subdue her easy.
Then when Angel turned into the soulless Angelous Vampire he once was, he decimated her and Wesley (a very competent fighter and magician in Angel series) in a straight up fight. even though they had prep.
Still not enough establish characters? How about the second best Vampire himself, Spike. I am sure everyone knows who Spike is as much as Buffy and Faith. Spike was the second most famous Vampire. He killed two Slayers in straight up fights, and nearly beaten Buffy in combat as well. He even got the better of Angel once.
Again I can go on forever on who is better than who. Buffy characters study the same various martial arts that Marvel comic characters have, and these characters reign supreme on the food chain as fighters against foes from earth, hell(s), and other dimensions. Take this Mohara demon for example. Its is stated as one of the best assassins for the Powers That Be, and it proves this by beating Buffy up of all people till a human Angel told her how to win.
This Demon is a super skilled fighter who has Wolverine level healing factor. Yet Angel beats him by himself when they first meet, even though Buffy was outclass in the second fight by the same Demon.
All these are great skill showings for these characters. Sure Electra beaten Jobbermaster, er I mean Taskmaster. Sure she gave DD trouble, even though Bullseye always been a issue for here. Yet Punisher beats Bullseye in H2H.... er.... anyway.... While the Marvel characters considered more establish, and by this word really it means more popular with more character crossover that works like bad ABC logic, but Buffy characters are shown as very skilled, and they have history of establish fighting knowledge. Yet Angel consistently matches or out right beats these characters. Consistently beats them unlike some of the Marvel characters who are more establish, but yet make no sense how character A who is more skilled gets pwned by B, while less skilled C beats B, omg Marvel crossover fights of establish characters is a mess .
__________________ Too much work trying to figure how to size a Sig right to have one.
Last edited by CadenceV2 on Sep 10th, 2014 at 10:53 PM
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Sep 10th, 2014 01:29 AM
Is this a title match?
