First of all I would like to state if Carver is not happy with this thread taking place it can be removed and nothing more can be said.
As we know I never made my last counter to Carver. So all I will be doing here is pasting mine and Carvers old responses in order then my final reply to Carver.
So far all I know of a confirmed judge is DarkSaint. Leonidas said he wasn't too sure so I am asking Digi and to be honest it is up to Supermex if he wants to revote. I haven't asked him yet but probably will after I finish making all of my replies.
Even if the vote ends up the same way I would just like to know I managed to get my final post in.
So here is Carvers first post. We ended up typing very large messages each so I will state 1 post number and when it is a reply.
Carver's First Post
Carver's Second Post
Not in my next reply to Carver's post I commented in 2 lots as my first reply came in at 9600 or so words.
Note I have included too many images. So I will be referencing by number the parts I am referring too.
My reply to part 1 of Carver's 3rd post.
We can pick and choose fights, because we know the mental illness is always there. But on some days it affects him badly and sometimes it doesn’t. You can’t not allow fights to not be chosen because it shows him in a different light due to his mental state. Here for example in his fight with the Collective.
(Collective Fight is I.)
We see that Robert is in an almost catatonic like state. (I will show the specific scans I am speaking of)
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And here he is risen from his stupor by Captain America shouting at him. So we already know from the first 2 scans that he is weakened. But we also know he isn’t as weakened as he is in the WWH fight. As he has in the fight with the Collective destroyed an asteroid/moon as a side effect of the battle. Which just from that one panel is more damage than his battle with the Hulk.
So we have the damage he caused in WWH here. (please log in to view the image)
Then we have this damage caused in his battle with the Collective. (please log in to view the image)
“In the first scan Sentry tells us that some days, his condition isn't... he never tells us if it was impacting him at that moment, he just say "some days". Was his condition messing with him on that day? Probably, but he never told us this, he just said "some days, its... I can't". Sentry then have his talk with Stark and moments later he tells us he is about to play god. “
Again here you are misconstruing his words. What does Sentry say after that which you are not showing.
“I’m sorry, you’ll have to handle this one yourselves”
And then you use him saying some days as if that means it wasn’t affecting him or in your words (probably but he never told us this). When we obviously know by his dialogue he is saying some days it affects him badly and this day it is too much, scan for reference…
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“Do we accept all of his high showings where he beats or stalemates someone and use it as his average or do we accept all unless stated otherwise by the Sentry that his condition was bothering him. There were times where Sentry straight up owned people even though his mentality wasn't all there. Here is an example of Sentry during his mental stages. He was acting child like during this story, to the point that he attacked Doom for nothing...asking Doom to put things back the way they were”
No, what we do is note when he is mentally stable, mentally unstable and without an illness at all (Death Seed Sentry). I have always thought this. You can create a big story about when we ascertain a power level for him. Ultimately it’s up to posters of KMC who make a battle to decide that.
Doom reads his mind (or perhaps tells via the soul reversal spell) and says he isn’t a well man. I would have thought that someone who could read minds and reads one of an Agoraphobic Schizophrenic is bound to pick that up. Let’s look at another occasion where someone tried to read Sentry’s mind.
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“More unsettling was the Sentry’s impenetrable darkness that seemed to stretch infinitely.”
Here is an example of what Emma Frost sees.
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It isn’t very hard to read Bobs mind and say “He isn’t a well man”. Regardless of whether he was being badly affected or not. He could be the way he was in Sentry Vol 2 or Vol 1. And Doom could have done the exact same thing and would have been able to tell he was ill. So all you have proved via this statement is that Sentry was acting childlike in this comic. The thing you forget is that in WWH Sentry was asking Hulk to hit him. Was Sentry in that bad a state against the Thing that he wanted to be put down? I will leave that question for you to answer.
Yes we see him easily tank a punch from thing and in your words. “Obvious something is wrong with him but he casually owns Doom physically and tanks a punch from Ben better than Thor, Hulk, and BB combined.”
We know when his power is down when he expresses the fact the Agoraphobia is affecting him, he is almost in a catatonic like state.
It was said during WWH, multiple times and it was implied. You are choosing to ignore it in my opinion.
And again what a surprise you are mixing up my statements. I never said he was speaking of the Void. I said he is scared of exerting his power because he is afraid of the Void. 2 different things. If you knew the character well you would know this to be the case. But you are choosing to ignore this fact.
And again something even more frustrating from Carver. I never implied Sentry was weakened in that scan.
I stated that is an example of when he is being “given” power and he is afraid of the Void emerging. I would like the judges to find a quote where I said he was weakened in that scan. As I don’t think Carver is going to be honest in his intentions of quoting me. As he has already multiple times in his message misquoted my statements.
“Also, like I previously said, we can't just dish out every fight that doesn't go Sentry way because of a mental issue Sentry has. If we are saying he was weakened against Hulk, then why not against Genis, Terrax, Absorbing man, etc... this isn't a condition that can be turned on and off. It's always there. So which fights do we accept and not accept? What we do know is that Bob gave his all against WWH because he said "is this how it feels to let go". Nothing was said before hand of him being weakened, let alone having aby mental issues that was hindering him/his power.”
We can say he wasn’t weakened as much against Terrax or Genis-Vell because…
1. He never stated a large degree of problems affecting him at the time.
2. We can see his power level in the fights. For example shattering entire worlds with his power. Or owning a Herald of Galactus as if he was fighting Spiderman is an example.
And before you go “But One Angry, Sentry exhibited a huge amount of power during WWH”.
Yes he did. But as explained by someone I have been discussing the matter with and our combined discussion.
The Sentry that fought WWH unleashed as much power as he could at the time. He couldn’t unleash (or hold in) anymore due to the fact that he was crippled by his mental state. And as we know he wasn’t at his most powerful and nor was he at his most focused. With regards to him wanting Hulk to punch him etc.
Like mentioned with Hulk calling Bob the Saviour, he is restricted by his humanity that’s why he didn’t outright kill him even though he was losing control. If it was the Void vs WWH Hulk would have been dead near straight away. In short he gave his best that he could at the time bar his mental illnesses, but it wasn’t at all his best.
Credits to Gree from Herochat.
If he had carried on in the fight and hadn’t turned back thanks to Hulk’s words I am pretty sure the Void would have taken over in some way ala Voidtry.
I said the Genis fight was an example of him containing power. But I also know he didn’t fully contain it. Let’s post some scans from the fight for everyone to see.
(Genis Vell fight is II.)
As we can see Sentry says.
“But Captain Mar-Vell was a noble man, a great”—(as Genis interjects)
Sentry then continues.
“He would not jeopardize the entire planet over some grudge match”.
So basically the above battles I assigned a number. So when I say it is fight I. I am referring to you visit the post which contains the fight so you can get the point from there.
I am now typing in my reply to Carver's part 2 of his Third Post.
This part irked me. As again he misquotes me. Let me show the judges what I actually said.
“Hulk had one last shot at convincing Robert before he destroyed the world.
And this was it. Hulks words get through to the Sentry. As we see in the 2nd panel Sentry's eyes are faltering. Then after they punch eachother for the last time. This happens.”
Carver said this.
“He say Hulk didn't have a choice but to stop Sentry 'per words'. I disagree entirely. If Hulk words had anything to do with Sentry stopping, why we're they still pounding on each other until the end? “
He says that I said he had no choice but words. When that wasn’t the case at all. I said Hulk had one last shot at convincing Robert before he destroyed everything. Hulks words convinced him. And carver brings up oh they were still pounding on eachother.
If you note I said Hulk had one last shot at convincing Robert (I didn’t mention one way or the other that Hulk tried to do so) I didn’t say Hulk’s only chance was by word I said he had one last shot at convincing Robert, so what Carver is attributing to me and what I actually am saying are 2 very different things.
Well Sentry’s words by saying “Thanks” and this by Pak.
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Confirms what I was saying. So I will not engage on this point with Carver any further as he has once again misquoted me and misquoted the comic and is going against what the writer has said.
He then brings up the Human Torch showing but again I never said he was weakened, I said it was an example of him being “given power”. So again I will not engage him here as I have already dealt with this.
Because most of this part is Carver asking the same question I don’t need to answer it again.
I will answer his point on the Iron Man fight. Sentry most likely wasn’t as badly weakened. If you notice he never killed Iron Man did he (which would already show he in this comic has at least a more reasonable control over his powers). In fact let’s take an example from Hulk himself.
Hulk is almost subconsciously holding back so he isn’t killing people left and right.
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So ask yourself this (while it may not work the same way) is Sentry just going to fight someone inferior to him (Iron Man) and kill him? Sentry wouldn’t dream of killing Iron Man. So again don’t be pernicious. You are trying to attribute is he weakened to every showing when it doesn’t need to be said.
By logic Sentry isn’t going to kill Iron Man unless he was going crazy.
Imagine if it was the Hulk in that position. Is Hulk going to kill Iron Man there? No.
I have a few small points to make to wrap up my last message.
And even if you think this is his most powerful incarnation, I would think about a couple of feats we have for Sentry, the Sentry is a person who has contained a Cosmic Cube, supposedly stalemated Galactus (Nate has confirmed this but some disregard it) and beating Molecule Man among others. Perhaps a little something else.
We already know that Robert was undergoing therapy for going outside of his house.
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And like I discussed previously before Robert had no other choice. Which gives credence to the fact he was impaired by his mental state when he stood in the doorway. This and the fact he stated that the Agoraphobia was affecting him.
How about this handbook (the official WWH handbook) which states.
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“but the mentally unstable Sentry fearing losing control of himself while unleashing power sufficient to subdue the Hulk, found himself pathologically unable to leave his house.”
This again proves that Sentry’s illness was affecting him. And this isn’t from some fake writer. This is the official handbook.
That’s all I can say for now.
I also feel like I should address some of the previous judge’s opinions about my comments. I will be addressing some comments from Leonidas (I don’t know if this is cheating or whatever (if it is just ignore this part when judging) but I feel I really need to clarify my point.
So here is what Leonidas originally said to me after I made my post.
First thing is I don’t believe he was in character or had an idea of how much he could unleash before he would start killing people. As currently in the battle Sentry has lost control and as Hulk indicated there was no way the humans were going to stop him and we knew he was losing control. So I disagree with Leonidas here that Sentry here was in or out of character. I don’t think he was either. All I can say is that he was going crazy and he was lashing out while not under his control. And I don’t believe that you can define that as in or out of character. As Leonidas makes the point that he released as much as he could safely while remaining in character, and going by the comic I don’t think Sentry cared (not because he was being vicious but with him being out of control) I don’t think he could reign it in either way.
We wouldn’t say Thor holds back every time he doesn’t go into WM when he is in a fight. But what we can say is as we know Thor generally holds back 1/3 of his total power while on Earth. One time he released these shackles would be when he faced the Void. Again we don’t say Hulk is holding back every time he doesn’t go full WBH. But we know there are times when he hasn’t held back when he didn’t enter that phase. When Jean Grey removed Banner from his mind and he fought Onslaught it’s fair to say he wasn’t holding back as it is Banner who is his inbuilt failsafe. Or how about Nul. Just because he never entered WBH I wouldn’t say he was holding back. But he was prepared to kill Thor wasn’t he?
The handbook I posted already kind of covered this, I don’t think he ever overcame it in the slightest. We see throughout the fight. Sentry says “Just once more” when he is asking Hulk to hit him because he wants to be put down. We see him allowing Hulk to punch him again near the end of the battle. I also disagree that we don’t need to look outside of this arc to understand his mental state. I believe you do. We already get a bigger enough explanation from WWH itself but it doesn’t even come close to giving you an understanding.
I would also like to state I don't mean I am angry with Leonidas as I find him a really nice guy. I just felt that my post wasn't clarified properly.
You replied to one of the people who judged the previous battle. Don't know what kind of battlezone this is but it's backwards. Then you have new judges coming in except the one who voted for you. Backwards but oh well...it doesn't matter. This battlezone was over with a long time ago.
You should of chose new judges all around. Why pick the same ones? Especially when the thread was being derailed with people disagreeing and fussing at the judges for making their decisions. Darksaint is going to vote for you, we know this. Leo voted for me in the other thread and got attacked for it. Supremex got attacked as well. Why even put them in a situation like that again. Then, you replied to Leo, one of the judges in the previous thread, disagreeing with him. This battlezone had nothing to do with Leo, so why reply to him? He gave his opinion, you should've left it at that. This battlezone is sloppy and honestly, I don't care for it. The judges can give their opinions if they want but this should've been handled differently. Even in the other thread. You said that we would do 3 posts each...you then change the rules in the middle of our debate. No, the rules were in place. It should've been left as is. Anyways digi is a good guy and I am ok with him or whoever you choose.
KMC Community Forums
Dec 8th, 2014 09:48 PM
