This part I've never really understood. What, exactly, was Darth Sidious's plan with Skywalker?
He knew, and stated so to Yoda, that Vader would eventually surpass him in power by a helluva lot, and as soon as that happens, Palpatine is a dead man.
So, was he just going to kill Anakin when he becomes too powerful? If he was going to do that, why would he work so hard to get an apprentice with that level of potential? Because once Anakin hits his full potential, Sidious is doomed, even if he manages to discover his whole clone-body-hopping essence transfer technique.
This actually applies to every sith of Bane's order in general. Does Darth Bane actually want Zannah to eventually surpass and kill him? Doesn't that sort of give him a belief in a cause beyond himself...sort of contradicts the whole sith self-centered mindset, doesn't it?
Sith always seek to test their power in battle. They find apprentices who have the power to surpass them for the ultimate challenge. Sith have no fear, even in death.
Yeah, but it's a bit of a futile "test" when your apprentice has the potential to become twice as powerful as you. And Palpatine seemed scared pretty shitless by Windu and Yoda.
Sidious would have killed Anakin if he believed Anakin a threat. If he succeeded it would have proved that Anakin wasn't worthy of being a Dark Lord. If he failed than it would have proved Sidious wasn't fit to lead. Exact same if Anakin tried to off him. Though Palpatine wanted to do with away with the Rule of Two eventually. Sith goal of Jedi eradication and galactic conquest complete, their journey was over. Palpatine wanted to replace all the governors and administration with Dark Side adepts, and essentially reboot a Sith Empire proper, full of Dark Siders who obeyed their master.
But the Rule of Two thing is logically absurd, it's plot-mandated success notwithstanding. One hiccup or accident in the transition process between one master and a new apprentice and that's the Sith extinct for good. Over 1000 years of lineage, something would f*cking happen.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Re: Re: So...Palpatine wanted Vader to overthrow him?
Palpatine was well aware that Skywalker had the potential to become vastly more powerful than him. If he was going to kill him the moment he began to surpass him/threaten him, then it would make the ridiculous lengths he goes to gain Anakin as an apprentice self defeating and pointless. He's excited about the prospect of his apprentice's becoming more powerful than himself. If he didn't want such to be the case, he'd have kept Dooku, who's actually far more powerful politically and economically.
Which then leads to the odd conclusion that Palpatine ultimately puts the ascendancy of the sith, or some pseudo-moral social darwinist code, over his own self preservation...and that just doesn't match up with his whole psychopath, evil-incarnate persona.
The great thing about the EU is that it added some nuance to his character. It wasn't just bad guy does evil things cuz he's evil. He had a higher allegiance to the very concept of power. The idea that someone as powerful as he could be rivaled and surpassed would be thrilling. Power for power's sake, above all else. It's an interesting paradigm to have. Makes the character less simplistic and one-dimensional.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Actually, it was the EU's interpretation that Sidious's ultimate ambition was the assimilation of the galaxy into his own consciousness, in a galactic-scale of the stunt he pulled on Byss.
It was George and the films that assert Palpatine was willing to sacrifice himself for the "greater good" of the Sith and that, in his own twisted mind, was actually saving the galaxy from corruption and destruction.
I personally loathe the latter given that it is inconsistent with his characteristic cruelty, not to mention his own actions as the source of that corruption and destruction.
I don't mind the dichotomy. An internalized contradiction of behavior vs. intention/ideology. Makes him more interesting.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
I do mind it, personally. That sort of weak justification seems antithetical to Sidious, who for all his villainy, never struck me as a deluded Well-Intentioned Extremist like Vader, Dooku, Revan, Caedus, and pretty much every other Sith Lord.
Perhaps at the point of his conversion, but Palpatine of the films should be a complete psychopath only out for his own aggrandizement.
Never been one for the idea that "good intentions" always make for better villains.
Nah, f*ck good intentions. Selfish intentions that redesign and regulate all life to reach an ultimate that goal is believed to be the pinnacle of existence. It's deranged and megalomaniacal, but shoots just above being the bad guy who likes to do bad things cuz he's the bad guy. That's the film version, and it works for those. EU gives us a chance to explore and add depth to otherwise single-minded, one-dimensional villains.
I was about to say. They just created Palpatine 2.0. Another way that TOR sucks for story.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Last edited by Lord Lucien on Aug 19th, 2013 at 01:55 AM
I just adore the irony that Vitiate is a rather boldfaced copy of Sidious, but because he comes earlier in the timeline, in-universe its actually Sidious whose boldfacedly copying him!
Again, it was the films (not the EU) that alleged Palpatine was an unbelievably warped Well-Intentioned Extremist who believed his Empire would be an improvement over the corrupt Republic. One who's willing to take risks in pursuit of greater allegiance to the Sith order, even at the expense of his own life.
It is the EU that alleges, no, he's a Complete Monster/Neutral Evil psychopath who doesn't give two shits about "greater good." He's taken the natural pursuit of survival to eleven and ruthlessly pursues that which furthers his own aggrandizement.
That kind of fvcked up psyche can be found in the real world as much as a Well-Intentioned Extremist. And I personally think Palpatine works better as a Complete Monster.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. TOR's writers created Vitiate after reading The Dark Empire Sourcebook and hoped to God no one would notice.
Really? I saw it the other way around. Palpatine's reasons for wanting galactic control are never stated in the films, beyond some off-the-cuff remark about "revenge", and some utterly insincere soundbytes to Retardakin about "peace". Always felt like the bad guy wanting power cuz he wants power cuz he's the bad guy. He does evil and manipulative things just cuz.
And it was the EU who introduced the whole "doing it for the greater good", stop the Yuuzhan Vong, absorb all consciousness in to one entity thus ensuring eternal peace in the most grotesque of fashions.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Yeah, f*ck that commentary. If that was Lucas' intentions than he should have made it clear in the film.
I prefer the latter. Add some warped, f*cked up messiah complex to that. Makes for a way more fun character to explore.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
"Conquer ma galaxy?! Shiiiit, ain't nobody got time fo' that."
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Aug 18th, 2013 06:53 PM
