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Foundations: Worst sci fi ever made?
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cdtm
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Foundations: Worst sci fi ever made?

Or worst fiction ever written, period?


Isaac Asimov is such a hack.

Old Post Dec 13th, 2019 04:10 PM
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Tzeentch
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I read prelude to foundation in the first foundation book, both when I was around 12. What don't you like about the franchise


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Old Post Dec 24th, 2019 01:29 AM
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Tzeentch
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Retard


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Old Post Dec 26th, 2019 10:46 PM
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Mindship
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I was never an Asimov fan. He had some cool ideas, but I found his writing somewhat lackluster.


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Old Post Jan 19th, 2020 07:40 PM
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Sharknado is always in my mind for some reason.. It's however the best comedy ever xd

Old Post Apr 30th, 2020 04:23 AM
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riv6672
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mindship
I was never an Asimov fan. He had some cool ideas, but I found his writing somewhat lackluster.

Same.
I never saw the big deal. There was a lot less pretentious, lit more fun stuff out there at the time I was exposed to him.


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Old Post Jun 2nd, 2020 06:40 PM
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cdtm
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Of course, this is actually one of the best sci fi series ever.

Going into it, I thought it would be dated. It isn't. If anything, it was ahead of its time, many elements feel contemporary.

It beats Star Wars "classics" like the Yuzong Vong invasion by a mile imo (Not to say that wasn't good, but it can't compare to Foundations)

Old Post Aug 4th, 2021 10:02 PM
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cdtm
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I have to amend that.


The first book is great. Foundation and Empire is good up until the last half.



The Mule ruins everything.


The political intrigue and empire building was grand, the personalities and trailblazers interesting, and I liked the nods to history.


Super powers are out of place in this universe. It goes from a good Game of Thrones, to an Emperor Palpatine vs the Jedi Council. Not interesting in the least.

Old Post Aug 7th, 2021 07:25 PM
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theronmad
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If you look at the seralo plane, then I think these are some TV series of the 90s, for example, "Babylon 5", or "At the edge of the universe"


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Old Post Sep 28th, 2021 04:55 PM
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cdtm
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More expanded rant on The Mule coming:





Anyways, I refuse to use spoiler tags because this is old, old content, past the expiration date. So be forewarned:


The Second Foundation is a council of psychics who can reprogram minds on a whim. To be most effective, they remain hidden and their very existence is made into a myth.

I do not like them. They destroy the original attraction of the franchise.

The early Foundation books centered around a man named Hari Seldon. Seldon was a scientist who develops a discipline known as "Psychohistory". What this system does, is allows a master of the science to predict the movement of civilizations across large spans of time, such as centuries. Hari Seldon predicted the fall of the modern star spanning empire of which he lived, and created a plan to rebuild a new civilization long after his death, known as "The Seldon Plan". To this end, he created two "Foundations", which are essentially organizations he set up at opposite ends of the galaxy to act as seeds for the new empires.

Now, the attraction of this concept for me was the idea that no matter what people tried to do, the plan endured. If a despot pops up, they move the plan forward. If a coup takes place, it was all part of the natural current of events. If the generals of the decaying old empire try and conquer the budding new colonies of the Foundation, they only get so far before being called back by the Emperor or something.

And this all changed when a "mutant" (Identified as a mutant in the book) named The Mule took over everything. This "Mule" has psychic powers, and can manipulate emotions and reprogram personality at will, and at a long distance. He can turns his worst enemies into allies, and was effectively invincible. This is the point where the mysterious "Second Foundation" came into play. The First Foundation was simple scholars and politicians and engineers and citizens and such, but the Second Foundation acted as a super powered group of Watchers who only intervened if the plan could be derailed by the unforseen. Such as a mutant.

These Second Foundationers were original normal people, not mutants, and learned how to unlock hidden powers. With these powers, they could reprogram minds at will, much like The Mule. They were less powerful and needed to be in much closer proximity, but it amounted to the same thing.

So long story short, they outwit the Mule, distract him just long enough to lower his defenses, and quickly reprogram him. Crisis averted.

If that's where it ended I might not have minded, but they didn't go away with the Mules defeat. We started getting stories where scientists with ways of measuring thought processes can detect if someone is compromised, and engaged in a cat and mouse game with the Second Foundation. And there were Second Foundation agents all over the place, interfering in little civil wars, or manipulating events behind the scenes. They were even retconned as having potentially programmed heroes of the First Foundation who were initially presented as being more clever or lucky on average.


Do you see the problem here? How the "Seldon Plan" would lose its luster with a team of secret psychics behind the scene to correct course anytime the plan fails?

I liked the series for the concept of macro building having a form that is somewhat predictable by certain kinds of math, and this Second Foundation turns the series into a Supernatural story.


It isn't what I signed up for. Ruined the series for me.

Old Post Nov 2nd, 2021 08:31 PM
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Old Man Whirly!
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What do you think the Spacers are if not superpowers mutants?


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2021 03:20 PM
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cdtm
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
What do you think the Spacers are if not superpowers mutants?


A retcon.

The Foundation was originally meant to parallel the fall of the Roman Empire. And then went off the rails into The Xmen.

Old Post Nov 3rd, 2021 08:05 PM
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Old Man Whirly!
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by cdtm
A retcon.

The Foundation was originally meant to parallel the fall of the Roman Empire. And then went off the rails into The Xmen.
Um, no, spacers are modified humans with long life times, shit immune systems and powers/adaptations.


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2021 08:38 PM
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cdtm
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Um, no, spacers are modified humans with long life times, shit immune systems and powers/adaptations.


Nothing I remember from the first two books and maybe about half of the third. Maybe they get mention in later parts of the book.


But regardless I'm criticising events that take place within the first two books. Even if these "spacers" existed in book one and I forgot about them, their abilities worked WITHIN the plan.


While psychic powers of The Mule and The Second Foundation worked INDEPENDENT OF THE PLAN.


My entire critique centers around the concept of the Seldon Plan not NEEDING a Professor X or Superman to defend it. That was the point of the plan.


If we have a Second Foundation meddling as they see fit, it defeats the entire Seldon Plan.


Because the fact is they didn't only meddle to stop The Mule. They meddled in other affairs too, with normal groups of people. And that is a problem to me.


Why even have The Seldon Plan at all? Just brute force it with The Second Foundation.



Bottom line, if The Seldon Plan depends on The Second Foundation, the Seldon Plan fails.

Old Post Nov 3rd, 2021 10:03 PM
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cdtm
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If that comes across as me acting like a jerk, it's not my intention. I'm simply trying to get my point across. smile

Old Post Nov 3rd, 2021 10:05 PM
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Old Man Whirly!
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You do realise foundation follows the Robot series, they are the same Universe and Spacers first appear there?


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Old Post Nov 4th, 2021 12:42 PM
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cdtm
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
You do realise foundation follows the Robot series, they are the same Universe and Spacers first appear there?



I'm aware they exist in the same continuity. Have not read the Robot short stories yet.


I'm going through the Asimov universe for the first time now, starting with the Foundation series, and giving opinions based on what I've seen so far, which is about two and a half of the first books. Cut me a little slack. smile

Old Post Nov 4th, 2021 01:05 PM
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Old Man Whirly!
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It's best to read Robot (probably his best stuff) Empire (about as good as Foundation) then Foundation.


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Old Post Nov 4th, 2021 01:38 PM
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The answer to the question is Ghostbusters 3.


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Old Post Nov 4th, 2021 04:18 PM
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cdtm
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
It's best to read Robot (probably his best stuff) Empire (about as good as Foundation) then Foundation.


The extra story from Complete Robot about cars was really good.

Not in the Foundations related Robot I believe, but was a neat story about a farm owner who retired robot cars, and the huckster who tried to con him, and later force him, into butchering out the engines for resale in other bodies.

Old Post Nov 5th, 2021 12:28 PM
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