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NBA Matchups: Past versus Present
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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NBA Matchups: Past versus Present

In this thread, I will organize one on one matchups between players, and the idea is to debate which player is legitimately better than the other, and why.

1. Carmelo Anthony
2. Adrian Dantley

3. Chris Paul
4. Isiah Thomas

5. Dwayne Wade
6. Jerry West

7. Elgin Baylor
8. Julius Erving

9. Karl Malone
10. Tim Duncan

11. Lebron James
12. Michael Jordan

13. Kevin Durant
14. Larry Bird

15. Dwight Howard
16. Patrick Ewing

17. Shaquille O'Neal
18. Hakeem Olajuwon

19. Kobe Bryant
20. Magic Johnson

21. Kevin Love
22. Kevin Mchale

23. Bernard King
24. Paul George

25. Steve Nash
26. Jason Kidd

27. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
28. Wilt Chamberlain

29. Allen Iverson
30. John Stockton

31. Moses Malone
32. David Robinson

Old Post Jul 20th, 2014 04:29 AM
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AsbestosFlaygon
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Re: NBA Matchups: Past versus Present

1. Carmelo Anthony
2. Adrian Dantley

- Don't know anything about Adrian Dantley. Never seen him play so can't compare.


3. Chris Paul
4. Isiah Thomas

- Isiah Thomas led his team through championship runs and persevered, even when he was injured.
Never seen Paul give that much dedication. Though Paul may surpass Isiah statistically, I'd have to say Isiah was the better player.


5. Dwayne Wade
6. Jerry West

- Jerry West was a pure scorer. Dwayne Wade is an all-around player. Wade plays better D. Jerry had a better shooting form. Very different players, but I have to give it to D-Wade for his versatility and overwhelming defense.


7. Elgin Baylor
8. Julius Erving

- With all respect to the Doc, Elgin Baylor is the first superstar the league has ever had. He preceded Wilt the Stilt for a few years.
The only player(s) I can mention in the same vein are Big O and probably MJ.


9. Karl Malone
10. Tim Duncan

- The Big Fundamentals. No contest. Simply the best PF in the history of the league. The achievements and accolades speak for themselves.


11. Lebron James
12. Michael Jordan

- If there is one player in the league today likely to surpass MJ's greatness, it is none other than King James (Durant will always be in his shadow unless he learns how to play D). Both players have some similarities; they were both hated and chastised by the public during their playing years, both are uber athletic, both had a fire within them -- The passion to win.
By now, LeBron is equal to MJ at his prime, in skill and fortitude. Some would argue LeBron as the better shooter, based on their 3pt%.
He just has to win more rings to surpass His Airness.


13. Kevin Durant
14. Larry Bird

- No doubt in my mind, Kevin Durant would school Larry Bird in a 1-on-1.
Much quicker, more athletic, video-game-like build, and ability to shoot and drive to the paint. Larry Legend is probably a better defender and 3-pt shooter, but KD is the better scorer.


15. Dwight Howard
16. Patrick Ewing

- LOL! What kind of a matchup is this??
Patrick Ewing for obvious reasons. LOL Dwight Howard's probably the most overrated superstar ever. I'd take prime Elton Brand playing at C over him.

17. Shaquille O'Neal
18. Hakeem Olajuwon

- The Dream is arguably the greatest C to ever play the game.
We already saw them go face-to-face, and Hakeem schooled Shaq badly. Hakeem was just unfair to play against, especially if you were a C. He had an arsenal of moves from the post that would make even the greatest Cs and PFs jealous.


19. Kobe Bryant
20. Magic Johnson

- Are we talking about achievements or skillwise?
Kobe has built a better career since he has been playing for longer. He also scores most of the points for the Lakers for the bulk of his career.
Though we can say the same for Magic, he wasn't the main scorer of the franchise when Kareem was still there. It's amazing how he was able to average those points considering Kareem was as much of a ballhog as Kobe is.
Skillwise, personally I'd say it has to be Magic. We'll never see another player like him for a long, long time.


21. Kevin Love
22. Kevin Mchale

- Kevin McHale was a scrapper. He was tough as nails, and he specialized at D. Charles Barkley even said that his worst nemesis was McHale.
As much as I love Love (lol) as a player (he's my favorite currently), I have to say McHale had a much bigger impact during his tenure with the Celtics.


23. Bernard King
24. Paul George

- Never seen Bernard King play, so can't comment.


25. Steve Nash
26. Jason Kidd

- These two guys are a tough act to follow. They are the last of a dying breed -- the pass-first PGs.
Based on stats and overall floor general work, I'd have to say it's Captain Kidd. He managed to take the Nets to the Finals while playing with a bunch of scrubs. That takes dedication.


27. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
28. Wilt Chamberlain

- The only advantage Kareem had against Wilt was he played for a longer period of time. That, and he had Magic Johnson dishing him some of those points.
Every other stat speaks for itself; Wilt the Stilt was the most dominant bigman of his era.


29. Allen Iverson
30. John Stockton

- Allen Iverson could do everything on the floor. He can defend, he can shoot, he can dribble and drive to the basket at will, he can slam the ball with as much force as a C.
John Stockton? He can steal (but so can A.I.), he can shoot 3s (so can A.I.)... that's all. Not much of a contest 1-on-1.


31. Moses Malone
32. David Robinson

- Now THIS is a match-up. Could go either way, really.
David Robinson is the taller dude and has the better block % if I'm not mistaken, so I'm going with him.


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Old Post Aug 12th, 2014 06:35 PM
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TheHulk
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1. Carmelo Anthony
2. Adrian Dantley
-CA barely

3. Chris Paul
4. Isiah Thomas
-Slightly going with Thomas

5. Dwayne Wade
6. Jerry West
-D Wade

7. Elgin Baylor
8. Julius Erving
-Doc J

9. Karl Malone
10. Tim Duncan
-Karl Malone

11. Lebron James
12. Michael Jordan
-Still MJ

13. Kevin Durant
14. Larry Bird
-KD

15. Dwight Howard
16. Patrick Ewing
-Ewing

17. Shaquille O'Neal
18. Hakeem Olajuwon
-Shaqster

19. Kobe Bryant
20. Magic Johnson
-Damn...

21. Kevin Love
22. Kevin Mchale
-McHale, for now

23. Bernard King
24. Paul George
-Paul George

25. Steve Nash
26. Jason Kid
-Kidd slightly

27. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
28. Wilt Chamberlain
-Hmmmm sky hook thumb up

29. Allen Iverson
30. John Stockton
-You already have The Answer.


31. Moses Malone
32. David Robinson
-Tough, slighty going for Robinson


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Old Post Jan 18th, 2015 02:01 PM
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dynamix
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oh sh!t, how'd i miss this thread?

In this thread, I will organize one on one matchups between players, and the idea is to debate which player is legitimately better than the other, and why.

1. Carmelo Anthony
2. Adrian Dantley

melo. in a one on one...very few cats can fck with melo

3. Chris Paul
4. Isiah Thomas

Zeke. Dude had skills, brain and heart. halted the big 3 of the 80's in Celtics, Lakers and Bulls

5. Dwayne Wade
6. Jerry West

I think in a team vs team format, i'd go with the Logo but on a one on one matchup, Wade is an offensive machine. going with Wae

7. Elgin Baylor
8. Julius Erving

Baylor's mad underrated and, i believe, was the archetype of the modern shooting guards like kobe and Mj, but i'd still go with Doc in a one on one.

9. Karl Malone
10. Tim Duncan

this is going to sound weird but i'm going with Mailman. malone is very strong and pretty formidable on the defensive end too. Duncan will likely take ranged shots but i can see Malone muscling his way to the rim overpowering Duncan.

11. Lebron James
12. Michael Jordan

MJ easily. despite size advantage...i've always thought lebron lacks the Killer instinct that MJ, Bird and kobe possesses.

13. Kevin Durant
14. Larry Bird

Kd pretty easily in a one on one scenario lol. Can't see how Bird will stop him.

15. Dwight Howard
16. Patrick Ewing

Ewing. pat Ewing perfected a game style that Dwight is still trying to master.


17. Shaquille O'Neal
18. Hakeem Olajuwon

this is a tough one but after some thoughts, i think prime Shaq should take it with size and experience. hakeem is quicker and more versatile but an experience Shaq dominated the league for half a decade.

19. Kobe Bryant
20. Magic Johnson

Kobe. Magic isn't really a one on one player, i don't think. Kobe should make quick work of him.

21. Kevin Love
22. Kevin Mchale

lol...Kevin Mchale, easily.

23. Bernard King
24. Paul George

not sure..

25. Steve Nash
26. Jason Kidd

i can't say for sure but i might edge it to kidd. he's just as quick, plus he's bigger although nash's long range is pretty vicious.

27. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
28. Wilt Chamberlain

kareem. Wilt openly admitted that he needed help to stop kareem's skyhooks lol..and that was Wilt in his prime!

29. Allen Iverson
30. John Stockton

The Answer all day.

31. Moses Malone
32. David Robinson

both dudes with crazy strengths so i can't even call it


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Old Post Mar 14th, 2015 12:59 AM
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TheHulk
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dynamix
oh sh!t, how'd i miss this thread?

In this thread, I will organize one on one matchups between players, and the idea is to debate which player is legitimately better than the other, and why.

1. Carmelo Anthony
2. Adrian Dantley

melo. in a one on one...very few cats can fck with melo

3. Chris Paul
4. Isiah Thomas

Zeke. Dude had skills, brain and heart. halted the big 3 of the 80's in Celtics, Lakers and Bulls

5. Dwayne Wade
6. Jerry West

I think in a team vs team format, i'd go with the Logo but on a one on one matchup, Wade is an offensive machine. going with Wae

7. Elgin Baylor
8. Julius Erving

Baylor's mad underrated and, i believe, was the archetype of the modern shooting guards like kobe and Mj, but i'd still go with Doc in a one on one.

9. Karl Malone
10. Tim Duncan

this is going to sound weird but i'm going with Mailman. malone is very strong and pretty formidable on the defensive end too. Duncan will likely take ranged shots but i can see Malone muscling his way to the rim overpowering Duncan.

11. Lebron James
12. Michael Jordan

MJ easily. despite size advantage...i've always thought lebron lacks the Killer instinct that MJ, Bird and kobe possesses.

13. Kevin Durant
14. Larry Bird

Kd pretty easily in a one on one scenario lol. Can't see how Bird will stop him.

15. Dwight Howard
16. Patrick Ewing

Ewing. pat Ewing perfected a game style that Dwight is still trying to master.


17. Shaquille O'Neal
18. Hakeem Olajuwon

this is a tough one but after some thoughts, i think prime Shaq should take it with size and experience. hakeem is quicker and more versatile but an experience Shaq dominated the league for half a decade.

19. Kobe Bryant
20. Magic Johnson

Kobe. Magic isn't really a one on one player, i don't think. Kobe should make quick work of him.

21. Kevin Love
22. Kevin Mchale

lol...Kevin Mchale, easily.

23. Bernard King
24. Paul George

not sure..

25. Steve Nash
26. Jason Kidd

i can't say for sure but i might edge it to kidd. he's just as quick, plus he's bigger although nash's long range is pretty vicious.

27. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
28. Wilt Chamberlain

kareem. Wilt openly admitted that he needed help to stop kareem's skyhooks lol..and that was Wilt in his prime!

29. Allen Iverson
30. John Stockton

The Answer all day.

31. Moses Malone
32. David Robinson

both dudes with crazy strengths so i can't even call it

thumb up


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Old Post Mar 14th, 2015 03:21 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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@dynamix

Wilt wasnt even close to his prime at that point, lmfao.


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Old Post Mar 18th, 2015 02:42 AM
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dynamix
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ha yea, didn't realize he was 33 by then. ah well, at least he won a chip around that time lol.


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Old Post Mar 18th, 2015 11:59 PM
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Jmanghan
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Where the HELL is Bob friggen Cousy. That man is a man among men.


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X1 Respect Thread

Old Post Mar 19th, 2015 01:09 AM
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TheHulk
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dynamix
ha yea, didn't realize he was 33 by then. ah well, at least he won a chip around that time lol.
I won't say 33 is that old though.


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Old Post Mar 19th, 2015 03:52 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Where the HELL is Bob friggen Cousy. That man is a man among men.
This


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Old Post Mar 19th, 2015 03:53 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Wilt was certainly old enough. By that point, he'd completely forgone his focus on scoring, and mostly became a passer/defender/rebounder. That said, he'd lost significant athletic ability, mainly stemming from arthritis, and this made him a less effective rebounder/defender. If Wilt and Kareem both played each other in their respective primes, Wilt would outscore, outrebound, and out-defend Kareem, IMO.

Bob Cousy was certainly a great player, but I just left him out of this thread, like I probably did many other great players.


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Old Post Mar 30th, 2015 06:21 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Wilt was certainly old enough. By that point, he'd completely forgone his focus on scoring, and mostly became a passer/defender/rebounder. That said, he'd lost significant athletic ability, mainly stemming from arthritis, and this made him a less effective rebounder/defender. If Wilt and Kareem both played each other in their respective primes, Wilt would outscore, outrebound, and out-defend Kareem, IMO.
In the words of Stephen A Smith...''the disrespect!!!'' to Kareem!


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Old Post Mar 31st, 2015 01:40 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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I'm sorry, but Wilt just happens to be quite possibly the best tangible basketball player of all time. If we're talking bucks vs warriors, prime kareem and prime wilt, wilt wins the matchup. He's simply too physically dominating, and his elite basketball I.Q. Doesn't hurt either. This is the center who has more triple doubles than guys like MJ, Lebron, and Larry Bird. He had 31 triple doubles in 1 season, and even 9 in a row!


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Old Post Mar 31st, 2015 04:05 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I'm sorry, but Wilt just happens to be quite possibly the best tangible basketball player of all time. If we're talking bucks vs warriors, prime kareem and prime wilt, wilt wins the matchup. He's simply too physically dominating, and his elite basketball I.Q. Doesn't hurt either. This is the center who has more triple doubles than guys like MJ, Lebron, and Larry Bird. He had 31 triple doubles in 1 season, and even 9 in a row!
Although i agree with Wilt being a complete physical beast(even more than the likes of LeBron or Shaq etc) he will not dominate Kareem that easily, but sure i could go with prime Wilt...in a 5 vs 5 match up. Since this is one on one, no one is gonna look at the better passer(Kareem has more career assist btw...granted Kareem played 500 more games), Wilt could be the better rebounder but Kareem will still be in the better position to get back the ball back if Wilt blocks his sky hook(quite obvious Kareem will use that shot 75% of the time) and Kareem is obviously the better blocker and possibly the better defender.


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Old Post Mar 31st, 2015 08:22 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Don't get me wrong, there's no player in NBA history that could ever "dominate" Kareem. It's just that Wilt's pure, brutish strength can be argued as unmatched in all of NBA history. It's what allowed him to be such a dominant rebounder, along with his insane leaping ability. With the rebounding argument, Wilt was rarely able to block the skyhook anyways, but in his prime he'd make it hell for Kareem. The kicker is that he doesn't necessarily have to even go up and block the shot. One problem Kareem had with Wilt, even later in his career, was Wilt's ability to force him off the block and unbalance him with his sheer strength. Wilt could employ said strategy to get Kareem to miss the shot, then box out and secure the rebound, where Wilt excelled.

As for the shot blocking, Kareem was most definitely not a better shot blocker than Wilt Chamberlain. For an example of his shot blocking dominance, in a nationally televised game, Wilt blocked a whopping 23 shots. His immense length (7'8 wingspan) and vertical (48 inches) allowed him to frequently not only block the shot, but catch the shot in midair. Watch this video for reference:



Also, in Walt Bellamy's first game against Wilt, a season in which Bellamy was averaging around 31 points and 19 rebounds, Wilt blocked all 9 of his shots in the first half, then told him, "Alright Walter, you can play now." Wilt Chamberlain was hands down the superior shot blocker, and better defender overall.

On offense, Wilt was a force. His sheer strength allowed him to dunk on his helpless defenders ala Shaq, but that isn't all in his arsenal. He also frequently used moves such as the finger roll, the up-and-under, the fadeaway bank shot, and the drop step. He actually mostly used these moves against players such as Kareem, Bill Russell, and Nate Thurmond, as he needed to use his full arsenal to combat their defensive prowess. While Kareem's length almost matches Wilt's, Chamberlain's strength would allow him to ultimately outscore and beat Kareem. It'd be a legendary matchup, but Wilt gets the edge, even in a one-on-one.


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Old Post Mar 31st, 2015 09:57 PM
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TheHulk
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Don't get me wrong, there's no player in NBA history that could ever "dominate" Kareem. It's just that Wilt's pure, brutish strength can be argued as unmatched in all of NBA history. It's what allowed him to be such a dominant rebounder, along with his insane leaping ability. With the rebounding argument, Wilt was rarely able to block the skyhook anyways, but in his prime he'd make it hell for Kareem. The kicker is that he doesn't necessarily have to even go up and block the shot. One problem Kareem had with Wilt, even later in his career, was Wilt's ability to force him off the block and unbalance him with his sheer strength. Wilt could employ said strategy to get Kareem to miss the shot, then box out and secure the rebound, where Wilt excelled.

As for the shot blocking, Kareem was most definitely not a better shot blocker than Wilt Chamberlain. For an example of his shot blocking dominance, in a nationally televised game, Wilt blocked a whopping 23 shots. His immense length (7'8 wingspan) and vertical (48 inches) allowed him to frequently not only block the shot, but catch the shot in midair. Watch this video for reference:



Also, in Walt Bellamy's first game against Wilt, a season in which Bellamy was averaging around 31 points and 19 rebounds, Wilt blocked all 9 of his shots in the first half, then told him, "Alright Walter, you can play now." Wilt Chamberlain was hands down the superior shot blocker, and better defender overall.

On offense, Wilt was a force. His sheer strength allowed him to dunk on his helpless defenders ala Shaq, but that isn't all in his arsenal. He also frequently used moves such as the finger roll, the up-and-under, the fadeaway bank shot, and the drop step. He actually mostly used these moves against players such as Kareem, Bill Russell, and Nate Thurmond, as he needed to use his full arsenal to combat their defensive prowess. While Kareem's length almost matches Wilt's, Chamberlain's strength would allow him to ultimately outscore and beat Kareem. It'd be a legendary matchup, but Wilt gets the edge, even in a one-on-one.
I do love Wilt's leaping ability too, he can touch the backboard and dunk around the free throw line(complete insanity for a 7ft 270+lbs center) and i will be fair, even though Kareem led the league in blocks 4 times(which is the reason why i said he was the better shot blocker) in Wilt's days, they did't record blocks till the 73-74 season.

I can agree that Wilt's physical being might pressure Kareem, however in my personal opinion, Kareem is clutch enough to either start scoring or find other ways because his such a great low post player(not saying Wilt ain't). Kareem may not be that physically strong as Wilt but he still can apply great defensive pressure skillfully, hell most of his blocks come from brilliant defensive IQ and because Wilt always had a high vertical he would just wait in the paint and get ready to block incoming layups or dunks and when it comes to blocking jump shots...well he does what you saw in that video.(funny, i just saw that 2 months ago i think).


Kareem is not got gonna be foiled that easily though. A one on one match up is very different. Kareem will be able to find better ways and positions to score off his sky hook, granted Kareem won't stop Wilt from scoring either. The one who is gonna win this battle is the better rebounder and Wilt does win in that category. However like i said due to the nature of the sky hook, Wilt will be forced completely up in the air and if he blocks it hard Kareem will be able to get the ball back and score normally because Wilt my have a strong explosion but Kareem has always been showed fast enough to get the second chance point but if Wilt smacks it out of bounds Kareem will get the ball again. I'll admit though Wilt blocked the sky hook two times in a row, but like i said this is different. Honestly, i'll like to write more points that i have..but i'm too lazy so i'll leave it at that. embarrasment


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Old Post Apr 1st, 2015 03:14 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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My thoughts exactly.

Kareem will definitely find a myriad of ways to score, for sure. I agree that Kareem was an excellent shot blocker and defensive anchor in general, and his sheer length almost matches Wilt's. My stance is that Kareem will have to work harder for his points than Wilt will due to his sheer strength and athleticism. And when your points become harder to come by than the most dominating physical force in the history of the game, there's going to be problems. I don't think that either player can really "stop" the other, but I believe that Kareem's points will be harder for him to attain than Wilt's, and that's why ultimately Wilt would win out slightly in the end.


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Old Post Apr 1st, 2015 10:21 PM
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TheHulk
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
My thoughts exactly.

Kareem will definitely find a myriad of ways to score, for sure. I agree that Kareem was an excellent shot blocker and defensive anchor in general, and his sheer length almost matches Wilt's. My stance is that Kareem will have to work harder for his points than Wilt will due to his sheer strength and athleticism. And when your points become harder to come by than the most dominating physical force in the history of the game, there's going to be problems. I don't think that either player can really "stop" the other, but I believe that Kareem's points will be harder for him to attain than Wilt's, and that's why ultimately Wilt would win out slightly in the end.
Which is what i am starting to lean into admittingly. Kareem will have to work harder for his points and maybe that will be his downfall. But hey, if i'm wrong...i'm wrong.


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Old Post Apr 2nd, 2015 06:51 AM
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dynamix
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i still feel Kareem gets the slight edge here. We should note that when they DID went head to head, they werent at their prime as Wilt was past his and Kareem was only starting out. I still feel that the Sky Hook is what will give Kareem the upper hand. Although i do admit Wilt is the stronger of the two, I don't think the strength difference is that much of a difference to really handicap kareem. As far as bball IQ, i think they are comparable. One thing that Wilt never had were "peers". Besides Bill Russell, he was able to have his way with most everyone as his stature alone gave him an edge. Kareem not only had a chance to go toe to toe with Wilt, he had to battle a lot of the best centers during the 80's. Moses Malone, Pat Ewing, Hakeem, Artis Gilmore, Robert Parish and was able to hold his own against much of them.


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Last edited by dynamix on Apr 3rd, 2015 at 06:19 PM

Old Post Apr 3rd, 2015 06:15 PM
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TheHulk
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dynamix
Although i do admit Wilt is the stronger of the two, I don't think the strength difference is that much of a difference to really handicap kareem.
Wilt once dislocated a man's shoulder by accident in a game once laughing out loud


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Old Post Apr 4th, 2015 02:14 AM
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