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What is Denethor's problem with Faramir?
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shadowy_blue
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What is Denethor's problem with Faramir?

I don't know whether you already discussed it or not, but I haven't found a thread on this board about it.
So, what IS Denethors problem with Faramir?
I have made some guesses and would like to discuss them with you.

So, here they are:

1. Faramir is too similar to Denethor (Faramir reminds Denethor of himself or somebody else)
2. Denethor feels inferior to Faramir
(Faramir has a brilliant mind and can look into the soul of people what Denethor doesn't like)
3. Faramir loves books more and prefers them to being a warrior
4. Faramir and Mithrandir share a great friendship (Denethor feels skated over, he thinks Faramir loves Mithrandir more than his father)
5. Denethor holds Faramir responsible for Finduilasí death
6. Faramir reminds Denethor of something or somebody from his past he wants to forget

Hm, so what do *you* think?


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2004 04:12 PM
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Exabyte
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I think it's mainly his friendship with Gandalf and his love for books and music instead of wars that make his father not like him so much; Denethor also didnt like Faramir's calm and always friendly character.
After the death of his wife he also looked for anybody to load his anger and depressiveness on because he could not bear it alone.


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2004 04:22 PM
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Godzilla2000
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Well, to add my book knowledge here, Boromir was Denethor's first born by his cherished wife. When Faramir was born, she died giving bbirth to him, so Denethor has harbored that bitterness that Faramir's birth took away the one thing he loved most in the world.


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2004 04:32 PM
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faramir isn't like boromir, that's why.

Old Post Jan 23rd, 2004 04:53 PM
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Exabyte
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I also was always convinced that Finduilas died giving birth to Faramir, but I do not know why, as Finduilas died five years after Faramir was born.

Another problem between father and son was that Denethor could not understand the motives that moved Faramir to do something and so he was often suspicious and mistrusted him.
Both could "look deep into the hearts of men", but while Faramir felt pity, Denethor felt scorn.


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2004 04:55 PM
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denethor used to be cool.

Old Post Jan 23rd, 2004 04:57 PM
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Exabyte
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quote:
Originally posted by Member.
denethor used to be cool.

If you have nothing of interest to add to this thread,
then do no say anything just for having the last post. Please.


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2004 04:58 PM
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Denethor looked into the palantir, maybe that's why? he used to be a good guy b4 that.

Old Post Jan 23rd, 2004 05:00 PM
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eldarion
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quote:
Originally posted by Godzilla2000
Well, to add my book knowledge here, Boromir was Denethor's first born by his cherished wife. When Faramir was born, she died giving bbirth to him, so Denethor has harbored that bitterness that Faramir's birth took away the one thing he loved most in the world.


I heard that this wasn't true. I thought this was the case too but I heard a while ago, maybe even on this site, that Faramir's mom did not die giving birth to him. Does anyone know if this really is the case because its really bugging me!


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2004 05:16 PM
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Exabyte
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It cant be the case as Finduilas died in 2988 (or 2987) while Faramir was born 2983


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2004 05:22 PM
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Jade_Eyes
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Its possible she did not die during delivery of, but still died as a result of.


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2004 05:24 PM
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eldarion
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Great! Thanks for clearing that up for me Exa; I knew you'd come through smile


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2004 05:24 PM
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Phoenix
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((people have probs alreay said this but...))

Boromir is the eldest son, and Denethors fave. Faramir ((n D's opinion)) is a poor substitute for B. also, D is hurting, he misses B, and so vents his misery on F.


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2004 05:26 PM
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Godzilla2000
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quote:
Originally posted by Jade_Eyes
Its possible she did not die during delivery of, but still died as a result of.


Well, either way, Denethor still ooved his wife. Of course if memory serves me right, Denethor was a prideful, tempestuos man before he met her. She kind of softened him for awhile. But after her death, he returned to the whole bitter, angry man bit. Of course that did make him easier to manipulate via the palantir by Sauron.


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2004 05:30 PM
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Godzilla2000
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quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix
((people have probs alreay said this but...))

Boromir is the eldest son, and Denethors fave. Faramir ((n D's opinion)) is a poor substitute for B. also, D is hurting, he misses B, and so vents his misery on F.


A favorite saying of mine when people get confused by the more subtle literary hints in the movies is, "Read the books." wink


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2004 05:31 PM
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FŽanor
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quote:
Originally posted by Godzilla2000
A favorite saying of mine when people get confused by the more subtle literary hints in the movies is, "Read the books." wink


Unfortunately for many the visual senses when seeing the movie as oppose to reading the book fills one with excitement and wonder of the scenery and the emotions displayed before them. Whereas reading actually takes discipline and a willingness to actually visualize that which one is reading. Not that many of the LotR fans here have not read the book. I for one have read it many times before seeing the movie more than I should have...

Old Post Jan 23rd, 2004 05:55 PM
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Phoenix
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quote:
Originally posted by Godzilla2000
A favorite saying of mine when people get confused by the more subtle literary hints in the movies is, "Read the books." wink



I have read the books! miffed


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2004 09:45 PM
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and also phoe HAS read the books

but (theres always a but)

he was a ***** to faramir before boromir died


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2004 09:53 PM
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Kitoky
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It's mainly because Faramir's birth caused Finduilus to die that's why.

Though his bitterness may also be caused by the Palantir and/or that might've fueled his sadness/anger more and so there goes Faramir riding out to war.


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2004 09:54 PM
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The Inkeeper
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so his wife had a five year labour..or did she not stop bleeding for five years afterwards....VERY slow blood loss rate the gondorians then?

stick out tonguestick out tongue


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2004 10:01 PM
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