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Q is not Omnipotent
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Captain SEX
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Q is not Omnipotent

He has had his power removed many times and it seems to have limits, the Q had weapons which killed each other. Who do we think would win out of a Dowd or a member of the Q. Remeber the Dowd erased an entire Race from existence with a thought.


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Old Post May 6th, 2008 11:03 AM
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Acrosurge
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Re: Q is not Omnipotent

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Captain SEX
He has had his power removed many times and it seems to have limits, the Q had weapons which killed each other. Who do we think would win out of a Dowd or a member of the Q. Remeber the Dowd erased an entire Race from existence with a thought.
I think the only way to determine such a thing would be an evaluation of feats, which would turn this into a versus battle. Is that appropriate for this forum? I'm not sure... Ah, we have Klingon vs Feds and stuff, so here goes.

I don't think that the Douwd would have the feats to compete with the Q. When angry, a Douwd devastated the surface of a world. By comparison, a stray shot from a Q attack causes a supernova as a side effect.

I don't argue against the Q lacking true omnipotence, but I do think they've more impressive showings than the single member of the Douwd we've observed. That isn't to say that the Douwd are incapable of more impressive things, only that we haven't seen them. Therefore, I'd put the Q a bit further on the omnipotence meter.


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Last edited by Acrosurge on May 6th, 2008 at 04:42 PM

Old Post May 6th, 2008 04:31 PM
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Captain SEX
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Re: Re: Q is not Omnipotent

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Acrosurge
I think the only way to determine such a thing would be an evaluation of feats, which would turn this into a versus battle. Is that appropriate for this forum? I'm not sure... Ah, we have Klingon vs Feds and stuff, so here goes.

I don't think that the Douwd would have the feats to compete with the Q. When angry, a Douwd devastated the surface of a world. By comparison, a stray shot from a Q attack causes a supernova as a side effect.



The novas were caused by Q weapons. We also know Q can die....


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Old Post May 6th, 2008 05:39 PM
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Re: Re: Q is not Omnipotent

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Acrosurge
When angry, a Douwd devastated the surface of a world.


"You don't understand Captain. There is no fitting punishment for my crime. I killed all of them -- everywhere." (paraphrased of course)

The Douwd wiped out an interstellar empire.


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Old Post May 6th, 2008 07:08 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Q is not Omnipotent

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
"You don't understand Captain. There is no fitting punishment for my crime. I killed all of them -- everywhere." (paraphrased of course)

The Douwd wiped out an interstellar empire.


Exactly!


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Old Post May 6th, 2008 09:38 PM
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Re: Re: Q is not Omnipotent

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Acrosurge
I think the only way to determine such a thing would be an evaluation of feats, which would turn this into a versus battle. Is that appropriate for this forum? I'm not sure... Ah, we have Klingon vs Feds and stuff, so here goes.

I don't think that the Douwd would have the feats to compete with the Q. When angry, a Douwd devastated the surface of a world. By comparison, a stray shot from a Q attack causes a supernova as a side effect.

I don't argue against the Q lacking true omnipotence, but I do think they've more impressive showings than the single member of the Douwd we've observed. That isn't to say that the Douwd are incapable of more impressive things, only that we haven't seen them. Therefore, I'd put the Q a bit further on the omnipotence meter.


the planet was destroyed by the attacking forces i believe...although it's been a while since i watched that episode...the Douwd then destroyed that entire race throughout the galaxy...as others have said

feckin good episode though


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Old Post May 6th, 2008 09:47 PM
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Acrosurge
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Re: Re: Re: Q is not Omnipotent

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Captain SEX
The novas were caused by Q weapons. We also know Q can die....
Very true. So are we assuming that a Q could not wipe out an entire civilization if he/she wanted to? And that a Douwd would be incapable of killing another Douwd?


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Old Post May 6th, 2008 10:03 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Q is not Omnipotent

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Acrosurge
Very true. So are we assuming that a Q could not wipe out an entire civilization if he/she wanted to? And that a Douwd would be incapable of killing another Douwd?


No individual Q has ever done anything on that scale I have seen. Have they?


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Old Post May 6th, 2008 10:05 PM
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Acrosurge
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Q is not Omnipotent

quote: (post)
Originally posted by HARRY MUDD
No individual Q has ever done anything on that scale I have seen. Have they?
Not that I've seen, but when one can casually change the gravitational constant of the universe, hang starships on Christmas trees, and transport entire crews to the beginning of the universe, I wouldn't put much past a Q.

Has anything ever limited a Q, except another Q or Q-based construct?


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Old Post May 6th, 2008 10:20 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Q is not Omnipotent

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Acrosurge
Not that I've seen, but when one can casually change the gravitational constant of the universe, hang starships on Christmas trees, and transport entire crews to the beginning of the universe, I wouldn't put much past a Q.

Has anything ever limited a Q, except another Q or Q-based construct?


Everything though seems localised in my opinion. Smoke and mirrors.


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Old Post May 6th, 2008 10:22 PM
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hereatlast
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Does anyone remember when Q met Guinan, they both stuck their hands up in the air at each other. Q mentioned that she was an incredibly dangerous creature and that he "had no idea". It's as if Q was worried by some of her powers or something, and yet Guinan's race was still assimilated into the Borg. Interesting... And if you want even more information about Q etc, read some of the books about him. I've got them all. smile

I actually have like 129 different Star Trek Novels. smile Along with many encyclopedias etc. (And the Spock vs. Q Cd's.)

God I'm a nerd. =\

Old Post Jun 6th, 2008 02:07 AM
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I think that was to add more mystique to Guinan, or maybe they knew each other and were joking, which adds even more mystique. Really though, what the crap is up with Guinan? She is weird.


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Old Post Jun 6th, 2008 03:19 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by hereatlast
Does anyone remember when Q met Guinan, they both stuck their hands up in the air at each other. Q mentioned that she was an incredibly dangerous creature and that he "had no idea". It's as if Q was worried by some of her powers or something, and yet Guinan's race was still assimilated into the Borg. Interesting... And if you want even more information about Q etc, read some of the books about him. I've got them all. smile

I actually have like 129 different Star Trek Novels. smile Along with many encyclopedias etc. (And the Spock vs. Q Cd's.)

God I'm a nerd. =\
Books? What books about Q?


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Old Post Jun 6th, 2008 03:53 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
I think that was to add more mystique to Guinan, or maybe they knew each other and were joking, which adds even more mystique. Really though, what the crap is up with Guinan? She is weird.


two words.

whoopi goldberg.

that is all.


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Old Post Jun 6th, 2008 03:57 PM
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hereatlast
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Lol, there quite a few books that have Q in it. I also have 350 books on Microsoft Reader. =O

Old Post Jun 6th, 2008 08:33 PM
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If the Douwd were more omnipotent than the Q, that Douwd could have reversed what he had done to Husnock.


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Old Post Jun 6th, 2008 09:56 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by hereatlast
Lol, there quite a few books that have Q in it. I also have 350 books on Microsoft Reader. =O


i have a few, not not many q ones...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
If the Douwd were more omnipotent than the Q, that Douwd could have reversed what he had done to Husnock.


true...


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Old Post Jun 6th, 2008 11:29 PM
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Grand-Moff-Gav
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There is no reason to suspect a Douwd could take on and beat a Q- they have killed an entire race?

Remember Q said at the beginning he was going to deny humanity existence.

Q can also time travel- and since Q says in Voyager that the Q have always been we must assume the Q have the ability to go back and time and stop the Douwd from ever coming into existence.

As for Guinan- Q said he would remove her and raised his hand, Guinan raised hers in response but there is no indication that her defenses would have been able to stop him.

Old Post Jun 18th, 2008 07:48 PM
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SpikeSpiegel
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Sorry, just saw the topic as "Q is not imputent" Thought it was a wierd thing to see :


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Old Post Jun 22nd, 2008 07:39 PM
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Q is absolutely omnipotent, as determined by the writers, who have the deciding vote on which criteria determines it. Remember this is not reality but a presentation for entertainment. It is up to the writers to present omnipotence in the manner that suits the plot or story.

Another thing is we need to understand a couple of things about omnipotence - unlimited power. This presents the paradox: Can an omnipotent being create a boulder so heavy that even he cannot lift it? Here we see that with a singular being, even the concept of being omnipotent is questionable. So what happens if you have 1 omnipotent being vs another of equal power?

In a struggle of the effort to exert a power successfully, the simplest idea is that 2 or more can overpower a single Q. It stands to reason that this is a basis for how they govern the Q society and enforce their laws. For example, we know it should be within a Q's power to escape from a comet, so it seems reasonable to assume the governing rulers of the Continuum simple relieved him of the power to escape.

As for Quinn's claim that the Q are not, we have to also consider the criteria he suggested as evidence for his reasoning:
"In a way, our vulnerability is what this is all about. As the Q have evolved, we've sacrificed many things along the way, not just manners, but mortality and a sense of purpose and a desire for change and a capacity to grow. Each loss is a new vulnerability"

As you see, we have our own perspective of the determining factors, which may differ from another's definition, Star Trek writer's presentation, and even Quinn's own interpretation. The bottom line is yes, Q are, even if we don't like how its presented, or whether or not we find discrepancies.

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