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Can the Ones resist Nihilus' drain?
I'm having a debate with somebody that's arguing that The Ones (the Son specifically) can't resist Darth Nihilus' drain, which I believe to be absolutely retarded. Anybody wanna give me any more evidence to throw at him besides the common sense stuff?
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It'd effect them, yeh, but they'd have the durability and force pool to literally crush him out of existence before he's even close to bringing them down.
__________________ "i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.
That was her main avatar and confrontation took place in her own turf.
Anyways, Force Drain was a game-changer in that confrontation. Yes, Luke Skywalker was in the picture but Darth Krayt is no champion of Force Drain either.
So yes, danger is real. Most powerful expressions of Force Drain from Darth Nihilus and Valkorion will threaten and subjugate any being and it won't take long.
However, we can expect beings like The Ones and Abeloth having raw power to fight back effectively before they go down unless distracted. However, a Jedi or Sith won't.
Sounds reasonable.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Feb 20th, 2017 at 11:36 AM
They may or may not be immune, but they can certainly resist it. Nihilus isn't going to instakill them or anything along those lines. KotOR II establishes that there are limits to Nihilus' power. He cannot consume anything that lives, and it's fair to say that the Ones are so far beyond Nihilus that his Drain is unlikely to affect them much. At least, not before they pulverize him.
Sorry, my wording made it ambiguous. I don't mean he can't drain any living being, I mean that he doesn't have the power to simply "consume anything that lives". In other words, there are limitations to his Drain.
[[Nihilus isn't going to instakill them or anything along those lines.]]
Well the ability has been shown to be an instant kill ability going along with the flavor of KOTOR 2.
[[KotOR II establishes that there are limits to Nihilus' power. He cannot consume anything that lives,
*correction* Sorry, my wording made it ambiguous. I don't mean he can't drain any living being, I mean that he doesn't have the power to simply "consume anything that lives". In other words, there are limitations to his Drain. *correction*]]
I assume this is in regard to your erroneous view in your "Force Misconceptions - Force Drain (KotOR II)" article in which you argued Nihilus hadn't yet achieved that level yet.
The most obvious error you make there is that she makes that statement after her last contact with Nihilus being pre-Katarr. She states:
Even this is from her pre-Katarr last meeting with him:
I'm not sure why you're using her dated experience to gauge his post-Katarr level in which he has drained a planet full of Force Sensitives and most of the 100 surviving Jedi (who can be assumed to be the most powerful since they have survived the longest). Why you doo dat bro?
[[and it's fair to say that the Ones are so far beyond Nihilus that his Drain is unlikely to affect them much. At least, not before they pulverize him.]]
Well that's stuffing the turkey with a lot of assumptions. First of all Nihilus isn't like other creatures. His aura has Force Sundering properties (i.e. he projects a Wound aura over an area of at least 1,200 meters in all directions). If we assume the ones draw their power continually, directly from the Force, they are going to be in a dead spot almost two miles wide. All they will have is what they came in with. They're already being debuffed in a sense, so I don't see why his unique drain is going to be nullified by them. It is an ability that feeds on life/force energy in a way no other ability does. It is defined as having no defense against it (and this concept is backed by Disney/Lucasfilm licensed material).
It's valid because Kreia's discussions on Nihilus refer not to when she last met him, but on his current self.
What future material establishes it as having no defense? To my knowledge, it is just Kreia's claim. Then again, the actual power doesn't really feature in the SW mythos again.
Also, assuming those Jedi to be the strongest because they survived the longest is blatantly erroneous. You'd expect someone to send the greatest warriors into battle, not the weakest, so the casualties would likely be some of the foremost warriors of the Order. Not saying that some of the strongest Jedi also survived (ie. the remnant of the Jedi Council), but it's not fair to say that they're the most powerful simply because they survived till the end.
Based on what? As stated in The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, they all went their separate ways after her exile:
You argued in your write-up that Nihilus assuming Kreia was dead was a legitimate argument (though wrong) and that Sion had to tell him about her death. If your argument were to be regarded as true, then they had zero contact even to the point that Nihilus doesn't even know she's still alive. Yet you want to argue Kreia was able to be in his presence and gauge him? All the hyping of Nihilus throughout the game until their battle, wasn't even supposed to be an accurate estimation of his power. As you no doubt have access to the dialog.tlk file, you'll see this:
The writer's intent was that even with all the "dust motes in a storm" and "as a body orbiting malachor" and "power cannot be put into words" etc. accolades, when the player comes upon Nihilus they had the idea to show the player that he was more powerful than that. Writer's intent shows Kreia was low balling him. Even her requirements as in "consumes all life" are met as Visas states he has this effect already post-Katarr.
The Disney/Lucasfilms licensed "Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes" spotlights Nihilus and describes his power under the "Annihilate" skill:
This is the coded interpretation of his drain and it has these four aspects:
1.) "Instantly defeat target enemy."
-This is not a channel skill, a DOT, or anything of the sort. It is defined as instant death which is really all we see of the KOTOR 2 version of the skill.
2.) "Nihilus gains Max Health equal to the target's Max Health."
-This is a KOTOR 2 flavored concept, in that Nihilus consumes both Life and Force Essence (as well as the essence of the being itself before it can become one with the Cosmic Force) and grows in power adding it to himself.
3.) "The Target cannot be Revived"
-This is a KOTOR 2 concept. As the people themselves are consumed (their essence), their bodies leave behind a mass that is an "absence in the force" as shown with Kreia's usage of the ability. With the person consumed, and no way of the Force being able to bring them back, they are beyond revival.
4.) "This ability can't be evaded."
-This is written according to the KOTOR 2 flavor, most obviously towards Kreia's statements on it being without defense.
As far as that's concerned, that's how Disney/Lucasfilm wanted it to be written, and it matches the KOTOR 2 statements about it.
Send? Even during the Mandalorian Wars, the Council was against it. Those who did not rebel and go after Revan stayed behind, and you can't honestly want to argue that the most sound and powerful Jedi dropped the order and ran off after Revan can you? I doubt it personally but I'm open to a good alternate view.
Post Malachor V, during the Jedi Civil War, many Jedi were killed but we don't have too much detail about who all and what all went, and who survived, etc.
We see a lot of heavy hitters still remaining after the Jedi Civil War so there's reason to believe there were others.
My assertion in its secondary nature is that of those who survived the Jedi Civil War, the weakest Jedi would reasonably be the first to die.
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Feb 20th, 2017 07:10 AM
