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Capitalism is socialism?
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cdtm
@#$%

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Capitalism is socialism?

https://americanaffairsjournal.org/...-neoliberalism/

Or perhaps more accurately, "corporatism".

Interesting read, that argues each corporation is a mini state, getting it's authority from a state sanctioned charter, and the shareholders paying into a socialized thing that no single person (Or group of people) own.

Would love if the business savvy among us could take a look and speak their mind.


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Old Post Jan 18th, 2018 11:13 PM
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Emperordmb
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Nah that's bullshit, the principles of capitalism are private property and consent. These corporations are built upon the voluntary participation of its constituents and customers, as well as transactions based on private ownership on property, not at all resembling the state coercively and backed at the point of force taking your money and distributing as it sees fit.

Additionally, a capitalist economy is set by market factors in a free market whereas socialism artificially organizes this shit.

At a very important point of principle and structure the two are completely different, as well as in their productivity. Capitalism generates wealth, whereas socialism generates poverty.

You don't need to be particularly business savvy or extremely proficient with economic theory to recognize it it's pretty on the surface stuff.


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Old Post Jan 18th, 2018 11:26 PM
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Surtur
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Socialism just plain needs to be snuffed out of existence.


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Old Post Jan 18th, 2018 11:29 PM
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Emperordmb
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Marxism needs to be treated like Naziism in the realm of civil discourse.


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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
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Old Post Jan 18th, 2018 11:30 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Marxism needs to be treated like Naziism in the realm of civil discourse.


It's going to be hard when they are the ones so often shouting about nazis.


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Old Post Jan 18th, 2018 11:31 PM
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Emperordmb
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Sargon put it pretty well when arguing with an Antifa leader ranting about fascism:
"Yeah but who cares what you think you're a communist! Your body count is ten times higher, who gives a **** about what you have to say?!"


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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
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Old Post Jan 18th, 2018 11:32 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Sargon put it pretty well when arguing with an Antifa leader ranting about fascism:
"Yeah but who cares what you think you're a communist! Your body count is ten times higher, who gives a **** about what you have to say?!"


Lol that was f*cking hilarious.


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Old Post Jan 18th, 2018 11:35 PM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Capitalism generates wealth, whereas socialism generates poverty.


I know you're 1st year college guy and you're all 'classic liberal free-market' edgelording yourself out until you're blue in the face and that's cool, you do that. Just a part of growing.

But do you really think it's that cut and dry, black and white? Cos Capitalism doesn't work without the upwards movement of money from the have-less to the have-mores, which as an effect creates poverty. Look at it this way, if everyone where a billionaire, the world wouldn't function. Not that capitalism is inherently a bad thing mind you.

As far as socialism creating poverty as an absolute statement. Norway is considered a socialist country. It's doing pretty well for itself. As are several other of the Scandinavian and European countries. So it seems like socialism can and does work, in certain settings.


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Last edited by Robtard on Jan 19th, 2018 at 12:12 AM

Old Post Jan 19th, 2018 12:08 AM
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Emperordmb
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2nd year college student my dude

I'll hit you up on the other points when I have more time if DarthSkywalker0 doesn't beat me to it.


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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"

Old Post Jan 19th, 2018 12:09 AM
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Robtard
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Please excuse my error and in case you took that first part the wrong way, it wasn't an insult.

No worries, can wait. Honestly, no interest in reading a word-quilt from the gish galloper.


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Old Post Jan 19th, 2018 12:10 AM
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DarthSkywalker0
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Please excuse my error and in case you took that first part the wrong way, it wasn't an insult.

No worries, can wait. Honestly, no interest in reading a word-quilt from the gish galloper.



When have I ever made falsified arguments, strawman, and outright lies?

Old Post Jan 19th, 2018 12:35 AM
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Tzeentch
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Capitalism is not socialism, but socialism is the end-game of capitalism. Eventually the free-market fails as the most successful companies devour the lesser ones and instill monopolies, at which point the exchange of currency for products/services ceases to be voluntary and becomes coercion-based. ISP's are a good example. Company gets big -> eats the surrounding companies -> uses its insane wealth to fund laws that make it harder for other companies to compete -> free market collapses and individuals are forced to pay that company for its services as the alternative is lacking a vital resource that's basically mandatory to be successful in the modern world.

No one is a Comcast customer by choice.


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Old Post Jan 19th, 2018 01:08 AM
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DarthSkywalker0
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quote:
As far as socialism creating poverty as an absolute statement. Norway is considered a socialist country. It's doing pretty well for itself. As are several other of the Scandinavian and European countries. So it seems like socialism can and does work, in certain settings.


No, it can't. None of the countries mentioned are socialist economies. Let us look at the Economic Freedom Index. Sweden, Denmark, and Norway are each less than one point away from the US in regards to economic freedom. What makes this funnier is that each of these countries economies are less regulated then the U.S. they are just brought down by their welfare and taxation states. This is the Nordic success story. All of the Nordic countries had a higher life expectancy. If we delve into Sweden and Denmark's history, we realize why their economy flourishes despite their high taxes and the welfare state. I am specifically focusing on Sweden, but nigh all of what I am about to say applies to Denmark. Sweden's period of affluence took place between 1850 to 1950. During this period, Sweden the average Swedish income multiplied eightfold, while population doubled. Infant mortality fell from 15 to 2 percent, and average life expectancy rose an incredible 28 years. In 1950, Sweden had lower taxes and a smaller public sector than the U.S. and the rest of Europe. The Social Democrats finally took control in the 50s, and while they slightly raised taxes, the significant increases did not transpire until 1970. Since 1950, Sweden has gone from 7 to 19 in GDP per capita. But unfortunately, wasteful spending and poor economic policies nipped Sweden in the bud. The average growth rate was halved to 2 percent in the 1970s, declining further in the 1980s, and that was before the big crisis in the 1990s. In 1990, the year before a serious economic crisis in Sweden, private enterprise had not created a single net job since 1950. They luckily cut social spending and freed up the economy which helped them recover.

High tax rates and generous welfare benefits discouraged investment and subsidized indolence. Very few of Sweden's most prominent companies were created post-1970. In 2000 just one of the 50 biggest Swedish enterprises was founded after 1970. To quote Johan Nordberg,

quote:
From 1975 to 2000, while per-capita income grew by 72 percent in the United States and 64 percent in Western Europe, Sweden’s grew by no more than 43 percent. In 1970 Sweden was the fourth richest country in the OECD’s ranking by per-capita income. In 2000 Sweden had fallen to 14th.


How do you create a small fortune? You start with a big one. Sweden is using past money generated from capitalism and keeping their economy free to fund a massive welfare state. This applies to both Norway and Denmark.

Old Post Jan 19th, 2018 01:14 AM
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Robtard
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^ If you said anything that contradicts something I've said, then you're wrong.


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Old Post Jan 19th, 2018 02:56 AM
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DarthSkywalker0
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
^ If you said anything that contradicts something I've said, then you're wrong.


You claimed that the Nordic countries were socialist and implied that socialist policies have led to their success. Neither of those statements is true.

Old Post Jan 19th, 2018 03:09 AM
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Bashar Teg
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capitalism has become socialism for the wealthy.


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Old Post Jan 19th, 2018 03:14 AM
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DarthSkywalker0
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
capitalism has become socialism for the wealthy.


*corporatism

Old Post Jan 19th, 2018 03:14 AM
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Tzeentch
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Corporatism is foregone conclusion of the free market.


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Last edited by Tzeentch on Jan 19th, 2018 at 06:44 AM

Old Post Jan 19th, 2018 06:37 AM
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NewGuy01
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
You claimed that the Nordic countries were socialist


He said they're considered socialist. What is considered "socialist" today, i.e what most people refer to when they say they support socialism, is primarily capitalist integrated w/ socialist programs. Much in the same way that actual socialism (state-controlled economy) is what most people call "communism," even though communism is supposed to be stateless.


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Last edited by NewGuy01 on Jan 19th, 2018 at 07:15 AM

Old Post Jan 19th, 2018 07:12 AM
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Emperordmb
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Regardless, the point DarthSkywalker0 was making and providing evidence for in his post is that their economic success is derived from their past economic freedom and economic freedom in the present, and in spite of the economic policies that would be considered socialist.


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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"

Old Post Jan 19th, 2018 07:22 AM
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