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Possible reason liberals believe men are sexist, racist, misogynist pigs
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Sable
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Possible reason liberals believe men are sexist, racist, misogynist pigs

I have come to a conclusion on why most high profile people like Hillary Clinton, Huma Abedine, Ashy Judd, Madonna, the women on the View and other high profiles think men are sexist, rapists, misogynist pigs.

The people they marry, work for and surround themselves are just that.

Hillary surrounds herself with people like Bill Clinton, Anthony Weiner and Harvey Weinstein and Jeffery Epsiein.

Ashy Judd worked for Harvey Weinstein and he made watch him take showers. And he did this for 30 years

They only people they have to blame for this is themselves. Its not like people just learned Weiner was a pig, and people at Miramar knew Harvey Weistien was a pig, he's been doing this for 30 years.

Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 05:58 PM
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Digi
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Anecdotal.

The movement reacts to it on a societal level because they see it at a societal level. False positives will exist as a result, and become the focal points of criticism toward liberals on these issues. But that doesn't invalidate the totality of the argument.

Also seems a bit of a sweeping generalization regardless of focal point. Dig deep with anyone but the most radicalized feminist and it's clear their issue is with specific practices and people, not with "men" or something equally as broad.


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 06:03 PM
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Surtur
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Yeah that is weird...why did Ashley Judd keep that quiet for so long? Too busy cleaning her bloody bedsheets?

Also wait, didn't Megyn Kelly heap tons of praise on the guy she later said tried to grope her? The guy from FOX? And she heaped this praise on him after the supposed incident.


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 06:04 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Digi
Anecdotal.

The movement reacts to it on a societal level because they see it at a societal level. False positives will exist as a result, and become the focal points of criticism toward liberals on these issues. But that doesn't invalidate the totality of the argument.

Also seems a bit of a sweeping generalization regardless of focal point. Dig deep with anyone but the most radicalized feminist and it's clear their issue is with specific practices and people, not with "men" or something equally as broad.


I always laugh when they say feminism is about equality and to help men. That never gets old.

Oh, and some of these women claim we live in a rape culture(We do not).


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 06:05 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Digi
Anecdotal.

The movement reacts to it on a societal level because they see it at a societal level. False positives will exist as a result, and become the focal points of criticism toward liberals on these issues. But that doesn't invalidate the totality of the argument.

Also seems a bit of a sweeping generalization regardless of focal point. Dig deep with anyone but the most radicalized feminist and it's clear their issue is with specific practices and people, not with "men" or something equally as broad.


Nopethumb up

The main high profile people pushing this narrative are the ones who have been directly affected.

Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 06:07 PM
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Surtur
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There is also an issue when a sitting president spews out radical feminist talking points to millions of people, especially when the point is false.

Obama did that, brought up the "1 in 5" stat about sexual assaults. I wish the media fact checked Obama as much as they do Trump. I mean the actual Obama, not SNL skits about Obama(looking at you CNN).


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 06:15 PM
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Digi
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I dunno. Something like "Rape culture" is shock language that's probably pretty hard to empirically define and prove/disprove. But like, on a more practical level, every one of my female friends either owns mace, won't go walking at night, will asked to be accompanied out of the bar until their Uber arrives, etc. I'll often get antsy in the evenings and will go running (sometimes in the dark). I don't have a concept of what it's like to NOT feel safe doing that. It would be a loss of freedom that - on the whole - would definitely feel...uncomfortable. So I try not to judge too harshly when I can 100% see a difference in everyday life between men and women like that.

It's not a justification for hatred toward a broad group of people, but it's reason enough to try to stay aware of the ways in which gender informs freedoms.


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 06:16 PM
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Raisen
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Digi
I dunno. Something like "Rape culture" is shock language that's probably pretty hard to empirically define and prove/disprove. But like, on a more practical level, every one of my female friends either owns mace, won't go walking at night, will asked to be accompanied out of the bar until their Uber arrives, etc. I'll often get antsy in the evenings and will go running (sometimes in the dark). I don't have a concept of what it's like to NOT feel safe doing that. It would be a loss of freedom that - on the whole - would definitely feel...uncomfortable. So I try not to judge too harshly when I can 100% see a difference in everyday life between men and women like that.

It's not a justification for hatred toward a broad group of people, but it's reason enough to try to stay aware of the ways in which gender informs freedoms.


it's wise for women to carry some form of protection just because. but there is a false rape epidemic.
people will disagree. i'll post evidence. then people will turn to sarcasm or insults


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 06:17 PM
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FFS, with these threads


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 06:18 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Digi
I dunno. Something like "Rape culture" is shock language that's probably pretty hard to empirically define and prove/disprove. But like, on a more practical level, every one of my female friends either owns mace, won't go walking at night, will asked to be accompanied out of the bar until their Uber arrives, etc. I'll often get antsy in the evenings and will go running (sometimes in the dark). I don't have a concept of what it's like to NOT feel safe doing that. It would be a loss of freedom that - on the whole - would definitely feel...uncomfortable. So I try not to judge too harshly when I can 100% see a difference in everyday life between men and women like that.

It's not a justification for hatred toward a broad group of people, but it's reason enough to try to stay aware of the ways in which gender informs freedoms.


Digi, you are dancing.

Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 06:19 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Digi
I dunno. Something like "Rape culture" is shock language that's probably pretty hard to empirically define and prove/disprove. But like, on a more practical level, every one of my female friends either owns mace, won't go walking at night, will asked to be accompanied out of the bar until their Uber arrives, etc. I'll often get antsy in the evenings and will go running (sometimes in the dark). I don't have a concept of what it's like to NOT feel safe doing that. It would be a loss of freedom that - on the whole - would definitely feel...uncomfortable. So I try not to judge too harshly when I can 100% see a difference in everyday life between men and women like that.

It's not a justification for hatred toward a broad group of people, but it's reason enough to try to stay aware of the ways in which gender informs freedoms.


Lol well you see, I'm going to judge harshly when people spew lies. Because if you don't they continue to spew them.

Rape still occurs here, there is *zero* need to inflate the numbers.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sable
Digi, you are dancing.


Also the "shock language" thing falls short to me. Women have lied about rape. Would it then be okay for me to go around to college campuses giving talks about how 90% of the women who report rape are lying? Since hey, it's okay to heavily inflate numbers in order to push an agenda.


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Last edited by Surtur on Oct 6th, 2017 at 06:26 PM

Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 06:23 PM
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Raisen
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?

Attachment: false rape reported.jpg
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 06:45 PM
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False reporting rate (%)

Kelly et al. (2005)
67 out of 2,643
3% ("possible" and "probable" false allegations)
22% (recorded by police as "no-crime")

Geis (1978)
331% (estimates given by police surgeons)

U.S. Department of Justice (1997)
8%

Clark and Lewis (1977)
12 out of 116
10.3%

Harris and Grace (1999)
53 out of 483
123 out of 483
10.9% ("false/malicious" claims)
25% (recorded by police as "no-crime")

Lea et al. (2003)
42 out of 379
11%

HMCPSI/HMIC (2002)
164 out of 1,379
11.8%

McCahill et al. (1979)
218 out of 1,198
18.2%

Philadelphia police study (1968)
74 out of 370
20%

Chambers and Millar (1983)
44 out of 196
22.4%

Grace et al. (1992)
80 out of 335
24%

Jordan (2004)
68 out of 164
62 out of 164
41% ("false" claims)
38% (viewed by police as "possibly true/possibly false")

Kanin (1994)
45 out of 109
41%

Gregory and Lees (1996)
49 out of 109
45%

Maclean (1979)
16 out of 34
47%

Stewart (1981)
16 out of 18
90%


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 06:55 PM
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Digi
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Lol well you see, I'm going to judge harshly when people spew lies. Because if you don't they continue to spew them.

Rape still occurs here, there is *zero* need to inflate the numbers


Arguing various statistical findings is one thing. It seems like Raisen would like to take you up on that 90% number. But none of my friends have lied to me. It's easy to conflate a radicalized strawman with the entire point. But harder to do so when it's speaking to issues that are important to, for example, a handful of people I'm having drinks with tonight.

Have you felt personally marginalized in your life bc you're a man? Is this a topic that's hitting you at home somehow? Bc it's in some way affected literally every girl I know, including at least one attempted rape victim. They aren't anti-men, and they don't claim rape culture. But they can't f*cking walk at night (and, to be clear, that's a stand-in for other ways it undoubtedly affects them). And that's also not to say men in my life haven't been adversely affected. But it's not a 50/50 divide.

So you seem to be espousing fighting one extreme with another. A less vitriolic, but no less concerned, view of the topic can yield insights that hold up to scrutiny far better than the agenda-driven politics of Washington.


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 07:04 PM
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Raisen
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Digi
Arguing various statistical findings is one thing. It seems like Raisen would like to take you up on that 90% number. But none of my friends have lied to me. It's easy to conflate a radicalized strawman with the entire point. But harder to do so when it's speaking to issues that are important to, for example, a handful of people I'm having drinks with tonight.

Have you felt personally marginalized in your life bc you're a man? Is this a topic that's hitting you at home somehow? Bc it's in some way affected literally every girl I know, including at least one attempted rape victim. They aren't anti-men, and they don't claim rape culture. But they can't f*cking walk at night (and, to be clear, that's a stand-in for other ways it undoubtedly affects them). And that's also not to say men in my life haven't been adversely affected. But it's not a 50/50 divide.

So you seem to be espousing fighting one extreme with another. A less vitriolic, but no less concerned, view of the topic can yield insights that hold up to scrutiny far better than the agenda-driven politics of Washington.


but these are just your personal feelings bro. not facts. this is what you believe based on your personal experiences.

the facts are the facts digi. you simply write paragraph after paragraph of feelings.


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 07:06 PM
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Kanin (1994)

In 1994, Eugene J. Kanin of Purdue University investigated the incidences of false rape allegations made to the police in one small urban community in the Midwest United States (population 70,000) between 1978 and 1987. He states that unlike in many larger jurisdictions, this police department had the resources to "seriously record and pursue to closure all rape complaints, regardless of their merits". He further states each investigation "always involves a serious offer to polygraph the complainants and the suspects" and "the complainant must admit that no rape had occurred. She is the sole agent who can say that the rape charge is false".

The number of false rape allegations in the studied period was 45; this was 41% of the 109 total complaints filed in this period.[25] The researchers verified, whenever possible, for all of the complainants who recanted their allegations, that their new account of the events matched the accused's version of events.

After reviewing the police files, Kanin categorized the false accusations into three broad motivations: alibis, revenge, and attention-seeking. These motivations were assigned prevalence of roughly 50%, 30%, and 20% respectively. This categorization was supported by the details of complainant recantations and other documentation of their cases.

Kanin also investigated the combined police records of two large Midwestern universities over a three-year period (19861988), and found that 50% of the reported forcible rapes were determined to be false accusations (32 of the total 64). No polygraphs were used, the investigations were the sole responsibility of a ranking female officer, and a rape charge was only counted as false under complainant recantation. In this sample, the motivations mentioned above were roughly evenly split between alibi and revenge, with only one case characterized as attention-seeking.


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 07:06 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Digi
Arguing various statistical findings is one thing. It seems like Raisen would like to take you up on that 90% number. But none of my friends have lied to me. It's easy to conflate a radicalized strawman with the entire point. But harder to do so when it's speaking to issues that are important to, for example, a handful of people I'm having drinks with tonight.

Have you felt personally marginalized in your life bc you're a man? Is this a topic that's hitting you at home somehow? Bc it's in some way affected literally every girl I know, including at least one attempted rape victim. They aren't anti-men, and they don't claim rape culture. But they can't f*cking walk at night (and, to be clear, that's a stand-in for other ways it undoubtedly affects them). And that's also not to say men in my life haven't been adversely affected. But it's not a 50/50 divide.

So you seem to be espousing fighting one extreme with another. A less vitriolic, but no less concerned, view of the topic can yield insights that hold up to scrutiny far better than the agenda-driven politics of Washington.


Deflecting off topic to avoid the issue.

Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 07:13 PM
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Digi
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Raisen
but these are just your personal feelings bro. not facts. this is what you believe based on your personal experiences.

the facts are the facts digi. you simply write paragraph after paragraph of feelings.


This is a valid response to my posts in this thread, but I'm very much about approaching topics empirically in general. And I wouldn't discount stats in this discussion, though it can occasionally be hard to analyze methodology and source without a deeper dive.

So, stepping back a second because my responses have also been in response to Surt and Sable, not you until now. Some of the %s you cite are far too high to be acceptable. So that's a problem, and one that I'd happily agree can be overstated to draw incorrect conclusions on either side.

But there are also topics where a subjective observation can inform empirical ones. Is it possible that rape stats can be grossly misrepresented due to false allegations, AND we have societal issues with our treatment toward women that make them more fearful and give them less freedom? The two need not be mutually exclusive.

We may not be in much disagreement here, tbh. You just caught my responses before I had addressed your own.


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 07:14 PM
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Raisen
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sable
Deflecting off topic to avoid the issue.


I don't think he's trying to deflect. the problem is most people confuse feelings with facts. the facts are right in his face and he chooses to feel instead. this is just a terrible thing for society when fake boogeyman are created and it really just lowers quality of life for people


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 07:15 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Digi
Anecdotal.

The movement reacts to it on a societal level because they see it at a societal level. False positives will exist as a result, and become the focal points of criticism toward liberals on these issues. But that doesn't invalidate the totality of the argument.

Also seems a bit of a sweeping generalization regardless of focal point. Dig deep with anyone but the most radicalized feminist and it's clear their issue is with specific practices and people, not with "men" or something equally as broad.


High profile Liberals see it because of the people they chose to marry and hang around with. Other high profile liberal men.

Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 07:17 PM
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