More than enough words have been bandied about, so without further ado, a series of actions I like to call:
ZE PLAN 2.0: THE UPSTART GETS HIS JUST DESERTS!!1! (working title…)
1. using my OVERWHELMING speed advantage, the nanosecond he appears (before he can even think “INSERT SPELL/COMMAND/ACTION” HERE) I release my hammer and full on blitz him. As I move forward, I will the board’s edge to a razor sharpness and do this: https://imgur.com/a/LfnAabl
***NOTE*** The above action was undertaken with the board in its NORMAL, unsharpened, state…
2. as the attack is ending (and he is very probably dead or down for a period of time long enough to constitute a forum win) I command Mjolnir to STOP TIME around both halves of Loki: https://imgur.com/a/5H80JSI (a tactic that, in the recent past has ended him forever—see below)
3. in the event that I still detect even the tiniest hint of opposition or ‘fight’ in his torn and time-frozen body, I open a singularity in each eye https://imgur.com/a/HdnvIUn then, if STILL necessary, I summon Mjolnir to my hand, and join with it as I release the time stop (if such an action is needed) and draw out Loki’s remaining life force like so: https://imgur.com/a/2q2S9V0
I love the idea of Surfer, with his one million different applications of power, going full caveman on Loki
1. SPEED: Anyone who has followed BZs in the past knows very well—speed is a complete b!tch. It was my sole concern when I expected to use Loki. And anyone who knows surfer at all knows he is FAST. Here are a couple of speed feats that support my overwhelming advantage in this area:
A CRAZY combat speed feat above. Nova Prime—with WORLDMIND ASSISTING—didn’t even know he was struck by a HUMANOID! And surfer literally grabbed him by the throat for a moment. lol He thought he’d been hit with an energy weapon. The most shocking thing about that feat is that Rich himself can move FTL. A truly ridiculous speed feat.
Notice in the above how close the ship was and how quickly he accelerated to light speed while remembering that for this match, Loki appears only 0.5KM AWAY!! LOL The scan where he scourers the Earth is equally impressive as regards instant acceleration, and even Reed notes he is LIGHT YEARS away in seconds.
His physical speed (including actions) dwarfs Loki’s, but what about PROCESSING/THINKING speed? Also overwhelming:
Note again: in the above, the processing speed of the assessment is impressive, but he covers the distance to the fight in LESS THAN a microsecond. How much less? Who knows, but more proof that both my physical and mental speed is both overwhelming and incontestable.
A staggering scan. Travelling at the speeds he does, to be able map while simultaneously accommodating for CHANGES in stellar locations on the fly[/i] in order to calculate a SPECIFIC location based upon the movement of billions of stars, is a TRULY enormous feat.
So, nanosecond reaction/processing times, near instant acceleration, and physical speeds FAR in excess of light. Loki has…shifting radio waves and occasionally dodging Thor’s hammer. And what happens when Thor DOES throw the hammer at light speed?
I gotta admit, I HATED posting that radio waves scan. Loki is, literally, ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE slower in both movement AND processing speeds. Even allowing for speed of thought--he still HAS TO THINK. And Surfer simply forms thoughts FIRST, THINKS FIRST. I mean even NOVA couldn’t perceive him, and he has both legit speed feats, WORLD MIND, AND a lot more time/distance to try.
RESULT: I cut Loki in half and freeze him in time before he understands what even happened.
2. SLICE AND DICE: He will have wanted to show a number of durability scans to suggest he can live through the blow, these ones maybe being prominent:
Obviously the first and most famous one is VERY different from what I did though. His mind/brain remained intact after Balder, with a normal sword, sliced through his neck. Even still, read the narration. It wasn’t until Balder was well on his way that the body picked up the head again and was forced to PHYSICALLY reattach it. The second one is irrelevant. Loki admits it was a “trick”—a clone, or magical creation done with prep. Bottom line: he’s in a LOT of trouble. As for the scan I showed: that was an ALEPH. And those things were tough as nails:
I threw that dragon scan in as an added bonus to show the board CAN and has been LETHAL in the past. Again, there can be no doubt that surfer is MORE than capable of slicing Loki in half. I will the board to a sharpened edge only as a precaution. It really shouldn’t be necessary, but can’t hurt. And sharpening it should be as easy as it gets for someone who has control over their molecular structure and can turn himself and his board into snow:
The other scan has Thor using more ambiguous time control (dislocation) in Avengers 300! That was something like 20 issues AFTER Immortus “supposedly” removed its time powers. According to websites it was a HOAX perpetrated by Immortus, (to cover the retcon). Whatever. The time powers of the hammer remain intact.
I mentioned that Loki has recently been defeated in this way almost exactly:
Doom used his tech to freeze Loki—and all his TRICKS AND STORIES—in time, where he could have been held FOREVER. NO THOUGHTS. NO ABILITY TO ACT OR COMMAND THE HAMMER TO ACT. NOTHING. We even see that when he is released he picks up his sentence as though no time for him had passed. IOW even his thoughts and perceptions were utterly frozen. He should be done by this point, but, just in case…
LIFE FORCE DRAIN
If needed, surfer opens a singularity in each eye (LOL—Surfer is typically one of the most reliable narrators in comics, so there is absolutely no reason to think he was indulging in hyperbole in that scan) and if STILL REQUIRED, adds his OWN power to the hammer’s most sacred attack:
Enormously simple plan followed by insurmountable proof covering each step. It’s over before he knows what happened.
He is likely going to show some pretty crazy things—multiple forms of Loki maybe, maybe call on the collected life force of Asgard. He may or may not have the staff and call on King Loki’s help, or summon the Norn Stones (something Mjolnir can do on its own).
NONE OF THAT MATTERS. Every action outlined in his opening is predicated on his BEING ABLE TO THINK/ACT.
HE HAS NO TIME.
To act, he’d need to convince you he can THINK and ACT faster than I can. And that isn’t happening.
I have….a LOT left in the tank if needed, but as it stands, things are looking very bleak for my wily opponent. And why shouldn’t they?
Entering the battlefield, Loki has mjolnir, his magical fire sword (approved by Damborgson), and his very sexy helmet. For those that are loling about the helmet, it actually may end up playing a vital part in my victory.
So why did I choose Loki instead of keeping the Silver Surfer? Well after looking at the Surfer’s history against magical/mythical items and beings, I kept witnessing the Surfer getting his ass beat repeatedly lol. By people and things less powerful than Loki, and even my opponent agrees that:
And here is just a small sampling of evidence to further Leo’s very insightful statements about the Surfer performing horribly against magic.
Surfer rushes forward to attack a low level sorcerer, and gets stabbed by a mythical knife. He starts bleeding badly and is slow to get up.
Surfer ambushes Dracula who is completely unaware of who the Surfer is. Dracula owns him with spells, illusions, and even physical attacks. Surfer cannot even manage to hit Dracula one time or fight off the magical mind control.
The warrior wizard named Calizuma mentally controlled the Surfer for a couple of months. He greatly harmed the Surfer with one magical blast, and fought evenly with Dr. Strange until the other Defenders combined their attack. So we have a Dr Strange level wizard one-shotting Surfer and mentally controlling him for months. And Loki >> Strange as will be made abundantly clear shortly.
Mephisto who has owned the Surfer many times, almost kills him from his own dimension while the Surfer is on earth just by using an avatar. Mephisto’s attack doesn’t even last that long, yet the Surfer suffers greatly almost more than he can endure.
And below while in his own realm Mephisto compares Loki to himself. Therefore, Loki will be even more difficult for Surfer than Mephisto, b/c of the mystical items I posses together with my soon to be mentioned plan.
So did I manipulate Leo into swapping characters to his great detriment? Was the smack talking and pre-battlezone taunts all part of my evil genius plan? I’ll let you be the judge, because:
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MY PLAN -- THE DOUBLE BUBBLE
1. As soon as the match starts, Loki will attack with a spell blast of mystical energy. Which will trap Surfer in a magical diamond like structure, just as what happened below to Thor and his allies in an instant. Judges please pay very close attention to the scan shown, because Thor has mjolnir in his hand while being trapped. Even with mjolnir in hand Thor and his allies were completely unable to move, until Firelord’s attack broke Loki’s concentration. Of course in this match there is no one able to interfere and save the Surfer.
And it gets better as Loki has already trapped the Surfer in a similar magical force-field. Also not just the Surfer but every super-powered person in America besides Thor, including Hulk, Dr. Strange, and Vision simultaneously. Along with entire buildings like the Avengers Mansion, and over 200 small forefields in different parts around the America. Loki had an amp from Dormammu, in this battle I have the Odin-force from Mjolnir.
Furthermore, my helmet is not just a fashion faux pas.
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2. I will use it to reinforced the diamond magical force-field, so it will be twice as strong against the Surfer. Who doesn’t have the eye of agamotto and Dr Strange’s magical skill to break free. And Loki was in a much weaker astral form when he got the better of Classic Dr. Strange. (By the way, Loki could also perform the same quick spell and take away Surfer’s hammer.)
3. Once the instant double trap happens, Surfer isn’t going anywhere and this BZ is pretty much over. But since I said no mercy Loki will now end the Silver Leo with his magical fire sword. Learn from this Leo.
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His fire sword is capable of one-shotting a mjolnir wielding Thor. And is equal in power to mjolnir. Furthermore, it can phase through mjolnir effortlessly in mid combat.
And this will be the result except instead of an arm, I will cut off the Silver Leo’s head.
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And oh btw, I'm pretty fast when it comes to spellcasting and mobility. Surfer doesn’t have a significant speed advantage in combat, just look at all his showing against Thor for instance. A holding back Loki has already proven that he can match the Surfer’s speed, plus I get an amp from the Odin-force in mjolnir and god of thunder status.
Finally here is the direct encounter between a holding back Loki and Surfer which ends in a stalemate. Loki was able to blast Surfer multiple times and engage him in h2h equally. For this BZ Loki is much better with mjolnir and the odin force plus he has a powerful magical sword, and god of lightning status.
At the speed of thought, Loki will blast Surfer with a magical entrapment spell. Further strengthen by the mythical energy bands from his helmet.
Then he will decapitate Surfer using his supernatural fire sword.
Surfer’s terrible showings against magic will literally be the death of him.
Now that it’s too late Leo will finally realize that I played him for a sucker, oops I meant a surfer.
Looking at that battle, Loki CLEARLY wasn’t operating on the same level as he did in the Dormmy arc. I mean really? In the past, Loki usually needs prep to tap into power sources. Case in point, TWILIGHT:
He needed a massive machine to tap into its power. Claiming a spell cast through Mjolnir gains some power is one thing. I even tried selling that idea myself (with mixed results I might add….) Claiming the hammer boosts him to Dormammu level, without showing the smallest amount of proof of such a claim, is ridiculous.
No more diamond, and likely no more Loki in the process as he would certainly be “caught off balance” again… lol
CONCLUSION: no diamond. Or if there is one, it is much weaker than the one he cast in his scan as there is absolutely no reason to suppose that holding the hammer would amp Loki to the levels he was amped when Loki had Dormammu’s power.
Even amped, we saw Firelord hold his own against Loki. Hammer-amped Surfer would walk through that diamond spell no matter what level you feel it’s at.
STEP 2: The force cage? Strange broke it in a couple panels:
Again, a hammer-amped blast from Surfer would likewise shatter it—or the hammer could absorb it. Or I phase through, or port out. /shrug
STEP 3: Well, this is a mess for him at this point. His spells are shattered as he calls his FIRE SWORD!
The Fire Sword?? All the awesome things Loki can do and you call the FIRE SWORD?? Sigh…
I’ve no doubt the sword COULD hurt surfer—if it ever had the chance to hit him.
Which, given his lack of speed feats and the shambles of his “plan”, it clearly doesn’t.
But let’s say it did come to H2H somehow. I could simultaneously throw the hammer, just missing him, and command my board to blitz him. Maybe something like this, but I would want him to see it coming:
There are so many H2H possibilities, it’s pointless going into them. And it isn’t coming down to that.
As I said in my OP, he needs to demonstrate some amount of speed that will convince you he doesn’t get cut in half in the first fraction of a second. And his collection of 60 year old scans is anything but convincing.
I mean, I feel his pain lol—I was forced to try and make Loki’s speed feats seem impressive too. But really, there is not a single scan that unequivocally shows that he can think/move/cast at the speed of light, let alone come close to micro/nanosecond and FTL feats. All of which—his blatant attempts at low balling aside—Surfer has in spades. Low balling doesn’t cut it in BZs. It never has, nor will.
His claim that I “don’t have a significant speed advantage in combat” is grossly wrong too. Though unnecessary (as in this match he dies before combat even begins) here Surfer clearly mounts an FTL attack against Death Urge:
Bottom line: he has no answer for my speed. NOTHING he said or tried in any way at all, suggests that I DON’T simply cut him in half nearly instantly.
The remainder of his post deals tries to low ball Surfer’s history against magic. None of it is really important, since he’s dead before magic becomes a part of this. But…he does seem to forget—in precisely NONE of those scans, was Surfer armed with one of the great magical weapons in comics!
Low balling with scans from 40 years ago when he was trapped on Earth and considerably weaker than he is currently, is NOT the soundest strategy. Surfer stalemated Loki WHILE SURFER WAS IN HIS WEAKENED STATE—SONIC SHARK ANYONE?? He faced Dracula in his WEAKENED state.
Mephisto was forced to use Shalla Bal to help him win. And again, that was while Surfer was weakened and trapped on Earth! He’s much more powerful now, than he was then. And LOL at Mephisto comparing himself and Loki. He was comparing VILLAINY, not POWER. Mephisto>>>Loki in sheer power. Mephisto did better against Galactus than ODIN did! Lol So if you think your sword and hammer means you can go ahead and convince anyone you can stalemate Galactus now, well, that’s awesome. Feel free to prove it while I stand back and watch the train wreck ensue.
IMPORTANT POINTS TO REMEMBER
1. He demonstrated no speed feats of any worth, and we’ve SEEN him attempt to respond to light speed levels of attack:
And that is NOT a low ball. To be a low ball, he’d need to have several feats that CONTRADICT that one—meaning he would need several feats that show him OUT-REACTING light speed attacks.
HE HAS NONE.
Colorful descriptions of “speed of thought” aside, those are, at the VERY best, ambiguous and unquantifiable and in no way whatever are they proof he can react to my opening blitz. The only thing we know for sure—light speed humbled him. As for “the speed of a god”? Know who else has the speed of a GOD? Heimdall:
I know, I know, TRANSFER OF FEATS ERROR!!1! Not saying Surfer can do that. But if the question of who is faster, Glads or Surfer, were to be raised, wellll… I’m not sure, tbh. My money (and I think most people’s money) would be on Norrin, but it’s at least a VERY debatable point. And if Glads can do THAT to Heimdall, whose perceptual skills are among the best in all of comics, from…GALAXIES away, imagine what Surfer could do to Loki from HALF A KILOMETER AWAY!
He has no answer to a blitz, and as a result, no defense against being sliced in half.
2. He also has no defense against being frozen in time. And before he says “But I have the hammer and it can save me!”
Uriel froze Thor effortlessly, and he needed Cap’s help to get free. The hammer won’t save him from being frozen and he won’t have had any chance to cast any time spells, or even command the hammer to save him. He won’t have had any chance to think or act AT ALL. Split in 2, and frozen in time. Then I open SINGULARITIES in his eyes!! LOL That is soooo awesome. Maybe my favourite attack. And it’s something I can do instantly, at any time. That alone would likely kill him! (Unless he has a black hole durability feat hanging around…?) And, finally, if needed, I drain his life force.
Game, set match.
Oh yeah, that well-disguised plan was very tricksy…
All of Silver Leo’s misrepresentations and errors will be addressed. But first let’s continue with our theme of the Surfer getting abused and/or trapped by magic.
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The best part of the above scans is that the Surfer was attacked “so suddenly and viciously,” that he couldn’t even lift a “finger in defense.” And this is from some low level demons, just imagine what Loki with mjolnir, firesword, and god of thunder status will do.
One of Leo’s many misconceptions is that the Surfer will have freedom of movement inside of Loki’s magical diamond trap. Even though it is clearly shown in the scans that Thor and his allies couldn’t do anything but state the obvious, “we are trapped” lol. Again Thor has mjolnir in his hand inside this trap, and neither he nor the hammer could move. Surfer will be frozen and locked in place unless, Loki wished to amuse himself by hearing his pleads and cries for mercy. Also Loki will easily make the diamond bound to Surfer’s life-force so any attempt to escape will result in the Surfer’s immediate death.
I guess Leo really hasn’t been paying attention. He mentions escaping via teleportation, phasing, or my favorite shattering the magical diamond. The elephant in the room from him as seen by four different types of magical sphere like traps, is that it’s magic lol. And by his own admission as seen in my op, Surfer defenses do not work against magic. The Surfer is extremely vulnerable and weak to magic and mythical entities. That’s why he has to be saved by an outside source each time. Speaking of which:
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Mephisto easily traps the Surfer in his brain, by transforming him into a random thought.
And below we have Dormammu stating to Loki, ”You do possess powers of evil nearly equal to mine own.” We also have Mephisto calling Loki, ”my most treasured colleague!” And telling him on another occasion, ”We are masters at this, contracts, magical, and binding.” Also, the incidents with Mephisto and the Surfer that I have shown did not involve Shalla Bal, and the first one was only an avatar of Mephisto that almost unintentionally killed Surfer. Loki is clearly more powerful than just an avatar of Mephisto.
My opponent has basically gone with the standard speed-blitz plan. But there are a bunch of problems with it. The vast majority of scans he provides under his speed section are nothing more than travel speed feats, which a little sprinkling of space cheese on top. Can the Surfer travel very fast in space? Yes. However does he move so fast in combat that Thor/herald level opponents cannot hit or react to him, absolutely not. The overwhelming standard for Surfer fights are that herald level opponents can react to him. Take for instance, a speeding Thor blitzing past a speeding Surfer, and ramming Galactus in the head.
With the Nova scans, he is completely focused on Galactus trying desperately to get Galactus’ attention. Nova is just hovering in one spot and the Surfer comes and ambush him. The worldmind did recognize that it was the Surfer after rebooting. If ambushing someone who is barely moving and/or unawares displays superiority in speed, then the Jack of Hearts is faster than Surfer.
LOL @ using stopping a subway train as a processing/thinking speed feat. How fast do trains travel where you are Leo? Now here is an impressive processing/thinking speed feat-- simultaneous brain surgery on multiple dying patients in seconds. And yes those feats belong to me, because I am a god of thunder. Plus I have access to the odin-power as will be explained later.
And if all the above weren’t enough, we have already seen on-panel irrefutable evidence that Loki can match the Surfer in combat speed. Here again is a scan where Loki grabs a speeding Surfer off of his board.
Furthermore, below we have younger and weaker Loki reacting faster than the Surfer and saving the Surfer from harm. And by the way mjolnir is faster than the Surfer as well.
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LEO IS THE SPEED OF THOUGHT FASTER THAN LIGHTSPEED?
Thanks a lot Leo, you are such a swell guy. Nothing more I need to add except remember judges all my spells/magic is at the speed of thought. Here, Loki is tricked into racing an opponent on foot. After losing, his opponent is revealed to be Loki's own thoughts, "which fly at a speed beyond all reckoning. Not lightning itself can outstrip the power of thought."
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Flash states that he is “faster than light, but a hell of a lot slower than thought.”
Now to hammer (no pun intended) this point home, that Loki will be able to react, defend, and attack against the Surfer. I present to you all Durok the Demolisher, who was created by the magics of Loki and Karnilla. As you can see in the below scans, Durok got his hands around the Surfer often. Similar to Silver Leo’s plan, the Surfer attacked Durok’s neck with a speed blitz by his board. That barely slowed him down, and eventually Durok would break the Surfer’s board although he created another one. The most important thing is that Durok was constantly pounding and attacking the Surfer. The Surfer couldn’t beat him so he had to go in the future and bfr there. Again for all Leo’s travel and space cheese speed feats, the magically created being had no issues with being able to hit the Surfer over and over again.
The Odin-force is inside mjolnir and a powerful sorcerer like Dr Strange can take it from one source and put it in another proper source. Guess whose character is a powerful sorcerer, and knows more about the Odin-power than anyone besides Odin himself. This has huge implications meaning your hammer Silver Leo is about to be depowered. But congrats you are still worthy of uru on a stick.
So yeah I take the odin-power from Leo’s mjolnir and put it in my body. lol Everything was just subterfuge before, remember “it’s a trap.” And of course I have wielded the odin-power before in my body.
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So with just a small portion of the Odin-power Loki was able to free Surtur from Odin’s spell which kept him imprison deep within the earth, and he freed the storm giant Skaag from Odin’s circle of flame.
Also Loki is the only one in this tourney who was a thunder god in 616 continuity. Meaning I have full powers and abilities as such which is sort of anti-climax now, but still. And we all know how many times Thor has owned and gotten the better of the Surfer over the years. Loki’s magic + Thor’s power + the mother storm = DOA Surfer.
By the way Loki was not incapacitated by Wolverine impaling him through his eyeballs and skull. Which is really a highly impressive durability feat. He place a bandage over his face, suffered some cosmetic damage, and kept on talking and walking. He didn’t even fall down from such an attack. And Wolverine claws have koed the Hulk, cut Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet, and hurt Gladiator, so definitely not a low showing.
1. He seems adept at forgetting an important point: IN PRECISELY NONE OF HIS MAGIC SCANS WAS SS WIELDING ONE OF THE GREATEST MAGICAL WEAPONS IN ALL OF COMICS! He either WANTS to waste time posting irrelevant information, or he’s trying to fill the page with enough nonsense and pretty pictures that he hopes everyone forgets that the scenes he keeps digging up have no relevance to MY SS.
Hmm, which one could it be…?
2. NEARLY EVERY LOW BALL ATTEMPTED SCAN IS LESS THAN MEANINGLESS. Why?
Yes, the SONIC SHARK! Lol Stupid as it was (SS couldn’t even outrace the missile!) its effects LITERALLY lasted until the SS was finally set free from Earth for good. That means the VAST majority of his scans come from an era wherein Norrin was weakened!
Good to know that a severely depleted SS could stalemate a full powered Loki though. I’m certain the judges appreciate you repeatedly bringing that to their attention.
And really, even his low ball attempts aren’t very good. THIS is what happened once SS was free:
He did what Strange and his friend couldn’t while using less than ONE FOURTH of his depleted power!
“THOUGH I AM LESS THAN BEFORE….” Remember that judges. And remember: that is NOT MY SS.
Before I leave this section I thought it might be worthwhile to hear mutant’s OWN thoughts on the topic. It seems to be the thing to do. lol
Lol That is sort of fun. Though, to be fair, that wasn’t the SS who broke out of Strange’s spell, but HIS CLONE, who was…? Yep: created from THE WEAKENED SS’S power cosmic! Lol Kudos again for showing that even a WEAKENED SS CLONE can shatter Strange’s spells, and for showing a weakened SS himself can no-sell a magic attack from a user>/=to Loki. Wait, what? There’s more?
Oh, now I get why I haven’t been quoting YOU as often as you’ve been quoting me. Both times I DID quote you in this post your interpretations of events seem to be…muddled? lol Of course, SS did NOT “overcome” Odin’s enchantment:
His power had been REMOVED when they reformed the hammer. BUT even though he didn’t overcome it, it was still impressive and shows the power cosmic CAN interact well with, and even affect high level magic. Thanks again, SM.
And while we’re on the topic: to the list of impressively affecting magic items, I’d add this:
I gotta say, thank god he keeps quoting that leonidas guy. Dude has game, and without his input this match would probably have been over a long time ago.
Anyway, this second part reads much like the first. Low balling and lots of irrelevant information. What’s important?
And this gem:
WTF does he THINK is happening here??
He’s standing in one spot and WHAMMO! Split in two. This isn’t some flash-esque H2H combat I’m going for. This is SS blitzing the 0.5km that separate us in a nanosecond and cutting him in half before he tries to cast a spell.
Next come the predictable low ball attempts: young Loki, classic Loki, Jack of Hearts. Where’s Rhino? He even tries to low ball the NOVA feat. Problem is, NOVA and Worldmind are REALLY FAST:
And even with Worldmind’s help Nova didn’t know he’d been physically attacked by SS! Lol The more I see that feat, the better it gets.
Again, nothing complex. Blitz. Slice. He posts some pretty decent scans of Jane’s speed but they aren’t even light speed level feats. I loathe bringing REAL WORLD science into this, but if he wants to use the “catching a lightning bolt” feat we should know that lightning travels MUCH SLOWER THAN LIGHT SPEED (about 1/3 c to be more precise). The fact is easily verifiable on several reliable websites. IOW—catching a bolt of lightning is a pretty cool feat, but in NO WAY AT ALL counters my speed feats.
He shows Jane and Odin fighting and covering the distance between 2 PLANETS in a couple punches.
From a FAR CORNER OF THE GALAXY (at the VERY least several THOUSAND LIGHT YEARS distant) SS blitzed Thanos before Thanos could punch Cap. The fact that he missed the IG is irrelevant. The speed he had to have to even ATTEMPT to grab it is stunning. So far beyond light speed as to be ridiculous. The hammer also wasn’t faster than he was. it had a head start, SS was keeping up with it fine and seemed more like he was trying to follow than race or overtake.
So, on the one hand, we have crossing the distance between 2 planets, and on the other, we have crossing the GALAXY in what was approximately the same time frame. It’s also very important to notice that, again, his ACCELERATION IS NEARLY INSTANTANEOUS.
The Jane surgery is also a good one for her. But again, SS can do complex calculations based on the movement of BILLIONS of stars while moving at interstellar speeds. Sm’s very best feats are so far below mine that it hardly seems fair. But hey, good on him for suckering me into a switch.
To reiterate though: low balling is useless in this setting where PIS is completely ignored.
SPEED OF THOUGHT: Damn, I make some pretty good points. lol
The very obvious problem with his use of my argument is that we’ve actually SEEN the limits of Loki’s speed:
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And again—NOT A LOW BALL because there is no evidence to contradict the showing. Xavier has cast his thoughts across GALAXIES. Doesn’t mean Xavier can react PHYSICALLY at that speed. We’ve SEEN SS act, react and think ALL at FTL speeds. A light speed attack HUMBLED Loki. And while Jane’s surgery feat is good, again, it is WELL below light speed. SS searched the ENTIRE PLANET in less time than it took her to perform that surgery. And am I seeing things or did he actually use a scan of SS flying fast enough to break the TIME BARRIER, to LOW BALL SS??
Sound strategy. Likewise, nice job conflating feats (a consistent theme)—Durok can live through something so Loki can? And I didn’t see any blitz. Nice feat for the board though, holding someone of Durok’s level at bay. I don’t even know why he showed that fight. Getting desperate to find ways to live through the opening fraction of a second I guess.
Speaking of fractions of a second:
The speed of the train doesn’t matter. It was going to hit and SS had a microsecond to stop it before it did. Speed is irrelevant. It’s the microsecond timeframe that he both perceived then was able to act within that was impressive. That’s why it’s a microsecond reaction feat…
THE ODIN FALLACY: Barely rates refuting. He conflates feats again, this time Strange’s feat with Loki. It’s like Loki doesn’t have enough good feats on his own so SM is forced to try and steal from others. Anyway, no feat transference. Besides, it took Strange a while to pull that off. He even mentions Mother Storm, but of course he doesn’t have access to her in this match.
No movement needed. All I need to do is think. And since they could talk, they could THINK inside that diamond. I can access my power without movement. I think TELEPORT and I’m behind you. Or maybe I blink a new board into existence to attack from behind to distract him. Or, even WORSE for you, I simply think OPEN SINGULARITIES IN HIS EYES:
Now THAT would be distracting. Lol Do please note how he AGAIN conflates feats—this time some powerful demon ties SS’s life force to a field, so he thinks LOKI can do the same? It’s like this is his first BZ or something. Anyway, if the singularities don’t kill him, I time freeze him and drain him.
Loki unamped and without a weapon, still has a tremendous amount of power. Loki is capable of casually one-shotting Beta Ray Bill with Stormbreaker, Thor Eric Masterson with Thunderstrike, and Thor Dargo Ktor with Mjolnir at the same time. Loki can take a direct hammer shot that knocks him down, and immediately counter-attack with a spell. Even an aggressive Masterson Thor with Thunderstrike and Stormbreaker is easily overpowered by a weaponless Loki, and beaten badly physically by him. So Surfer’s mjolnir clearly does not make him immune to Loki’s spells at all. Three enchanted hammers (including Mjolnir) by three Thor-powered users couldn’t defend against Loki’s normal magic. Neither could Masterson Thor with 2 hammers, so what chance does the Surfer has? None
Now judges please remember the very first thing that the Surfer will do. Leo stated:
IN LOB STYLE:
!!!SIMPLE SUCKER BEHOLD MY MIGHTY HANDS!!!!
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Lol This speed of thought spell of Loki’s effectually ends the match before it even gets started. Those mystical gauntlets will take mjolnir and beat the life out of Surfer, just like with Thor except no mercy this time. Below Loki spells freezes Thor’s arm in place, increase his size, shoot blasts from mjolnir, traps the Warriors’ Three and prevents Thor from moving. And judges pay close attention to the last scan, because Odin declares that his ring is just a tool. “The ring doth take power---not give.” This clearly means that Loki performed all these feats under his own power. And he actually has two tools here that greatly adds to his power, mjolnir and his firesword plus even his helmet’s energy can be used.
So this will be the end result of the Surfer being bludgeoned to death by his own hammer.
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Yes and it will. Your surfboard attempted blitz will run right into it with the following result:
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Or maybe a similar type fire blast although mine is much more dangerous to you being a mystical flame. Compare below a blast from Loki’s firesword which one-shotted a mjolnir wielding Thor again, to Firelord one-shotting the Simple Surfer’s board. And Loki was able to basically tank a Firelord staff attack (it only knocked him off of a horse), and match Firelord’s power with just his physical stats as seen previously.
Leo has already shown Beta Ray Bill outreacting a blitzing Surfer and knocking him off his board. Unlike Beta Ray once Loki does that or similar he immediately follows up with a force-field immobilizing the Surfer.
Even the writers at Marvel recognizes that travel speed and combat speed are independent of each other, and totally different concepts in application.
Thor with Mjolnir can effortlessly absorb the Simple Sucker’s cosmic power without it even being directed at him. This is a great counter to most of what the Simple Sucker can do especially since Leo dropped his hammer as his first action. And Leo is not getting his mjolnir back as already proven by Loki’s mystical gauntlets, or force-field. Even if somehow he still had his mjolnir, it would be depowered as Loki would take the Odin-force out of it as already seen before.
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!!!FAKE NEWS FROM THE LYING LIBEL OF LEO!!!!
Dr. Doom barely manage to beat a younger, less experience, less powerful version of Loki. And Doom had to best him in a sorcerer’s duel first before trapping him in a space/time cube. Plus it was actually Valeria who trapped Loki as she operated the space/time machine while Doom engaged Loki in a magical duel. Leo conveniently left that scan out, but I didn’t below. So here the Simple Sucker is most definitely not going to be an adult (or any) Loki in a magical duel nor does he have assistance from another.
When Doom faced adult Loki in the future, Doom was easily at the mercy of Loki’s magic and had to be save by Valerie operating the time cube. So adult Loki effortlessly owned Doom, and Doom has stolen the Simple Sucker’s powers and defeated him on numerous occasions.
Leo thinks posting a feeble sorcerer named Shanzar draining the powers of the Surfer actually helps his arguments. LOL Not only did Shanzar easily drain the Surfer’s powers into the knife quickly, he also used said knife to greatly hurt the Surfer and cause him to bleed. Furthermore again we see the Surfer failing greatly to break through a magical barrier, and being completely unawares that he was getting drained. “The Surfer endless outpourings of force could never breach this dome.”
LOL @ Surfer opening up singularities in Loki’s eyes or wherever. Like he has done that before and not just boasting but actually on panel evidence. Hint judges there is none. And Loki is better at time manipulation than the Surfer. It’s funny Leo thinks he’s going to time freeze me when he is in effect already frozen in my magical force-field with or without his mjolnir. Plus I have my mjolnir which can reverse a time stop, and I can still use my magical while astral projecting. Additionally Thor could not move, think, nor could mjolnir be used inside Loki’s magical trap as already seen, Leo continues to ignore this.
Deathurge has been tagged by Spiderman so it is not impressive that Surfer has to go ftl speed to evade him. It’s also very telling that instead of attacking at ftl speed, the Surfer just flew around in a circle evading.
Leo’s whole argument against Loki’s magic is that a.) Surfer was weaker during that time and b.) Surfer has mjolnir now. But Surfer has never received an amp or upgrade that makes him immune or gives him a defense to magic. Remember judges according to Leo’s own words in my OP, Surfer standard defenses do not apply to magic. And LOL LOL the very first thing Leo did with his Surfer was drop his hammer. And he’s not getting it back with my mystical gauntlet or force field. Plus unamped and weaponless Loki has defeated the Thor Corps with hammers and even Thor Odinson multiple time with just magical spells.
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Leo continues to bring attention to things that significantly hurts his own arguments. Like Dr. Strange, whose magical power the Surfer is in fact AFRAID of. Dr Strange was able to block an ambush attack from a Power Cosmic infused clone of the Surfer. And younger, weaker, less experience Loki made Sorcerer Supreme Doc Strange believe that Loki was indeed the Sorcerer Supreme by winning the tournament. Also Loki shields are capable of temporarily stopping the Void, and blocking the attacks of the undead Disir.
Leo attempts to cry lowball but this is Surfer’s history against magic and myth. Again Leo own words stated that Surfer is weak against such. Leo uses an old scan of the Surfer blocking Karnilla attacks. Apparently, it’s only acceptable to show old scans if they help the Surfer. Now compare that to the recent (2012ish) scan I showed in my op of Karnilla 1-shotting a blitzing Surfer off of his board without looking. According to Leo’s own evidence, if anything the Surfer has gotten weaker against the mystical and magical. And my scans are canon the newer and the older which shows a very clear pattern of magic way less powerful than Loki abusing the Surfer. Notice judges that I have not mentioned the Abomination or Rhino types.
Apparently Leo has foreseen his death and defeat by my hands.
So let’s go ahead and end his suffering and torment, shall we.
LEO’S OBVIOUS PLAN AND WORST FIRST MOVE IN KMC BZ HISTORY
It’s like a 6 years old thought it up. Taking his most powerful weapon and dropping it immediately as his very first action lol. Judges, he must be punish for this foolish mistake. Then reshaping his board, before attempting to ram into magic man. He doesn’t even attempt to blitz me immediately, he does two actions before that. Because Leo did not show that he can reshape his board while riding it for a speed-blitz attack, judges that means it is not a simultaneous action. Which gives me even more time to do the following:
Judges as my opponent correctly alludes to, Loki does not have to perform any physical reactions for his speed of thought psionic attacks or spells. Loki’s very first action will be a mental attack just to make the Surfer’s movements sluggish. As already shown with his battle vs Dracula which is linked to below. Surfer couldn’t even hit Dracula once, and he was very confused and flustered. Moreover, Loki himself has already muddled the Surfer’s mind and perceptions as well also shown below again.
Next, Loki will think trap and at faster than light speed of thought, the Simple Surfer becomes trapped in Loki’s mystical diamond just like Thor with mjolnir. Then finally Loki will think gauntlets and take the Simple Sucker’s released hammer, and beat him to death with it. A fitting end for one so easily duped into giving up the best pick in this tourney under the stipulations. Learn from this defeat Leo, thine own words betrayeth thee. How could you not think they would come back to haunt you, after switching picks? Lol Simple Sucker indeed.
The Dormammu amp that Loki received was just a portion of Dormammu’s powers.
Once again I agree with Leo own statements which has been a constant theme in this BZ.
I’m not reacting physically to you with my spells and magic. Mystical gauntlets remember, please try to keep up. Furthermore your mind will be immediately clouded as seen all throughout this BZ, slowing your perceptions, speed, and reaction time. That’s when my physical speed will be of use, mostly just to finish you off with the firesword if my gauntlet with your own mjolnir haven’t done the job yet. Below are some more evidence of Loki’s speed.
Here we see Loki cast a spell AFTER Thor has thrown Mjolnir—cast “as quickly as thought itself”:
As you can see a light-speed hammer throw from Thor at very close range hit Loki directly. But, Loki didn’t have any significant damage, and was able to immediately cast a spell and shapeshift into a rat. This shows tremendous durability as this similar type of hammer attack has koed the Surfer before. Also Loki had been previously stripped of his powers by Odin, and force to wander the earth as a homeless man. Loki had just regain some of his magic back but not thru Odin. The Loki in this tourney has thunder god status, and isn’t recovering from a depowered state. Also when Balder cut off Loki’s head, Loki wanted him to think that Loki was dead. That’s why he didn’t reattach his head until after Balder left.
At this point much everything else is just Leo stating the wrong thing or trying to confuse the judges with hyperbole, misinformation and irrelevant scans over and over again. For instance going back to the Nova scans that he loves, Nova was not expecting or prepared to fight Surfer. He didn’t even know the Surfer was there. All of his attention and focus was on Galactus. A key point that Leo seems unable to comprehend. Ambushing someone who is focused totally on someone else is irrelevant to this fight, b/c Loki is totally focused on the Surfer. That’s why I showed the Jack of Hearts scan because even Surfer can be easily ambushed if he isn’t expecting a fight, which is exactly what happen to him. Just FYI I went back and read Nova 13 & 14 because I had a feeling, and Leo you really are the worst. Lol Not only was Nova able to evade the Surfer after the sucker shot/ambush, he went on to out-pace him. Then he block a beam attack from Surfer, and met him head-on getting the only shot in, which ended in a stalemate hold. Nothing at all like you were trying to portray, the worldmind even told Nova to evade.
Still waiting on the scans that shows Surfer opening up a black hole inside a person. A singularity being created on the battlefield wouldn’t help you at all because I have shields, teleportation, plus mjolnir. Furthermore you would never get a chance to try such an attack.
Judges please do not be deceived my Leo assigning meaningless numbers and digits to the Simple Sucker’s travel speed. It’s a red herring just look at what actually happen in the Thanos scan.
LMFAO, that is the only thing that’s relevant. So Leo getting all excited about this supposedly great speed feat, and the Surfer completely whiffs on his target. He gets out-reacted by the slowing moving arm of Thanos. So I guess that means that Surfer is going to totally miss Loki as well. Definitely worth showing again, thanks Leo.
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Easy answer Simple Leo, because unlike yourself I never release my hammer. Nor would that specific transformation even apply to my mjolnir. Loki does not have a Donald Blake persona, and wouldn’t need for his mjolnir to live in two places. Smh that you needed that explain.
I must lol that Leo continues to believe he can think, move, do anything inside of my mystical diamond trap. And because of his own folly, he doesn’t even have mjolnir in his possession. I have shown the Simple Sucker in no less than 4 magical sphere-like traps, and he couldn’t break out of any of them under his own power. Also thanks to Leo we see the Surfer in another battle fail to breach a magical force-field with all of his power. Moreover any attempt to free himself would result in his death via his life force being drained. Yes, life force draining spells and magics are easy for Loki.
Surfer isn’t freezing Loki in time especially without his mjolnir. Surfer will be the one in a state of suspended animation, just like I have showed in the BZ. The death god seth couldn’t even keep Loki imprison in an inanimate state in his own dimension.
OK, the wrap up. Imagine my shock at opening his third post and seeing two massive, non-canon scans. SMH I mean think about this for a second. We’ve seen so many AMPED versions of Loki your heads are probably spinning trying to keep them straight! In his latest post we saw scans from REIGNING LOKI and ODIN RING LOKI, and we know his whole plan is based on a spell he cast while he was DORMA-LOKI! Along with all the amped versions, we’ve seen any number of scans where he tries to TRANSFER FEATS FROM OTHERS to Loki, and now he wants to use some ALTERNATE version of Loki that Zarrko plucked from the time stream. What the ACTUAL f*ck? The REAL Loki must really suck or something. Glad I didn’t get stuck using that guy.
“Whilst on my finger sits the ring, t’is I who am the power!”
Seriously, wtf? It’s actually astounding that he continues to post scans of everything BUT a regular version of Loki. As I said, maybe the ring DOES draw on innate power (the explanation is so ambiguous it’s impossible to say)—but if it does, it does so in a way Loki himself cannot, nor would not, since the ring did THIS to him:
A BADLY WEAKENED SS WAS ENOUGH TO COMPLETELY STALEMATE LOKI.
Maybe that’s why he feels he needs to use amped versions? /shrug
Case in point—REIGNING LOKI! Lol He shows Thor pulling the head off REIGNING LOKI, and uses that version to show durability, saying he’s using a fake hammer. True, it wasn’t the real Mjolnir, but Loki himself was amped very highly in that POSSIBLE timeline arc:
I don’t get it. The inscription CLEARLY READS: WHOSOEVER HOLDS THIS HAMMER…SHALL POSSESS THE POWER OF THOR!” NOT the power of Dormammu. NOT the power of Odin. NOT the power of Mangog! And to top it all off—we’ve SEEN this Loki use wield the hammer. I showed the scans:
Did he LOOK like a skyfather? No? Know why? BECAUSE HE GAINED THE POWER OF THOR! He is somehow trying to justify showing the AMPED versions, because he feels the hammer amps him. And it does—just not to Odin, Mangog or Dormamma levels! And amping off his OWN sword and helmet? Geezus. SMH
Regarding Doom: beating Loki in his “duel” had nothing to do with the effects of the time stop on him. And I SHOWED a scan of Thor and Mjolnir being time frozen already:
He’s desperately grasping at whatever he can, but he has no answer for a timestop.
***BOTH THOR AND LOKI, ON PANEL, HAVE BEEN BEATEN, CONCLUSIVELY, BY A TIME STOP.***
He goes on about energy drain, (probably should have led with that) but he’s made his bed with his plan and has to lay in it. He wouldn’t have time for it anyway. Astral projection? Not if his skull is split in half. I do like that he keeps making me out to be the authority on Surfer though. He keeps quoting me, and trying to use my words against me.
It’s almost like he didn’t know we were in a BZ where I was using Loki, and that saying and doing whatever I could to make people THINK Loki was better was part of my JOB!
He wants to (1) DIAMOND FREEZE me, (2) REINFORCE said diamond, (3) cut me down with his sword.
Umm, if he tries to cut me while I’m in the diamond, wouldn’t that…set me free? Lol Or would his sword bounce off? Almost equally funny.
His whole plan just…isn’t very good. It’s also predicated on a spell only ever used by Dorma-Loki. We then have him going no-limits on the diamond—I can’t phase through it, or use planet-busting power amped through the hammer to shatter it, or teleport out of it. NONE of which Thor could do alone. I dunno. Just seems like an awful lot of holes in that plan.
For my part—I try and use what I see as my BIGGEST advantage—speed. I (1) release Mjolnir as I blitz at top speed and try to cut him in half. (2) Freeze him in time. (3) Drain his life force, or…whatever.
So, following my plan to its logical ends, what can potentially happen?
1. He IS cut and half.
2. You feel he is quick enough to react and counter. With a weapon? Ok, he parries, maybe even cuts the board. As he’s doing so, I command: FREEZE TIME.
Yes, of course the hammer can hear her. And, MORE IMPORTANTLY, act on Thor’s wishes.
So, even IF you (somehow) think he can parry me, or “diamond” me, that STILL LEAVES MJOLNIR FREE TO ACT! Surfer serves just as well as a distraction. I’ve no doubt I can cut him in half, my speed feats dwarf his, but even if I don’t, the time-freeze works REGARDLESS of what you feel he does.
What was that he said earlier…?
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Once he’s frozen, the battle is over. He has ZERO proof that he, or the hammer, could overcome it. Uriel froze Thor (whose power he DOES have) without effort. I do the same. The time freeze prevents THOUGHT, let alone action. From that point, my options would be unlimited.
***WARNING***: There is a CHANCE that he may actually try and sell you on the fact that LOKI IS IMMUNE TO TIME STOPS!1! Lol My most current scan refutes that directly, but in the event he talks about DOMINATION FACTOR, Loki DID make himself and a bunch of heroes immune to a stoppage in time that came from splitting Knorda’s Apple, but what is ALSO made crystal clear, is that Loki KNEW it was going to happen, and so had lots of time to PREP for the temporal anomaly:
Through the whole series, Loki was aware of the coming time paradox from the beginning! IOW, he was “immune to time stop” because he had PREP TIME. Check out ODG’s REVAMPED LOKI RESPECT THREAD for more. (End plug!)
Obviously, no chance to PREP for my time freeze.
Again, once frozen (whether you feel I cut him in half or not) it’s over. No THINKING, no ASTRAL PROJECTING, no anything. If he seems capable of fighting, I can just drain his life force as I said. I showed a scan of Surfer OPENING A SINGULARITY already, so I don’t see why he couldn’t do so in Loki’s eye. Or once I have him frozen and have a moment to think about it, maybe I just GODBLAST the **** out him:
Or any of a 100 ways that, logically, wouldn’t even be necessary.
Even IF his plans work out EXACTLY like he hopes, and Dorma-Loki diamonds me, or he physically parries my attack, MJOLNIR still freezes him in time. He never anticipated fighting 2 opponents, and can’t answer one of us, let alone both. He’s frozen REGARDLESS of what you think about my blitz and slash attempt, and he has no way out of it. From there, I can take my time and end him permanently in any number of ways.
A quick thanks to borg and SM and the other competitors. This was a ton of fun. But a poor strategy and too many ‘technical’ errors by my opponent and…
Yo, so I'm late to the party but will ultimately concur with my fellow judges, though for slightly different reasons. It's not that magic can't affect Surfer - I think despite a few iffy scans, it was shown by Supermutant that it definitely can - it's that either can harm the other, and expecting Loki to counter as thoroughly as all his scans show is unlikely at best. We have a tendency to scan-dump in these things, and while that's fine if we're bolstering certain points, it can start to work against a debater if it begins to highlight the many different things a character needs to do in order to compete. You guys both balanced scans with debate - it wasn't just a dump - but there was still a lot more shown than would actually have a chance to happen in the fight. There's a diminishing return on "look at all the things I can do" when we're talking about a battle that will likely be short and brutal. In those instances, I start to lean toward the economy of a strategy, not the breadth of it. In something like a team battle where it's not 1-on-1, I actually think Loki would be maddeningly tough for Surfer to deal with, but largely because he wouldn't be singularly focused on Loki.
There's also the matter of Mjolnir, which isn't a guarantee against Loki's magics (as we've seen), but does provide a measure of additional protection against magical energies. In that sense, I think it's more of a potential boon to Surfer here than Loki, though only slightly. Add that to the definite speed edge Surfer has and there's a lot for the God of Mischief to manage in a short span.
I think if someone were going to punch out of his weight class in this tourney, it was going to be Loki, with his familiarity with the hammer and Thor, and history of meddling with it. But despite a valiant effort, it wasn't quite enough against what amounts to possibly the most well-rounded herald in tourney history, who was ably represented by Leo.