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Why do you believe?
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Damborgson
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Why do you believe?

Whether it be purely spiritual, a major religion, or anything else in this wacky world, why do you believe in it?

Second question: What would it take for you to stop believing?


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Old Post May 13th, 2018 07:17 AM
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Patient_Leech
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Evidence and rational conversation should be the basis of belief.

Major religions don't have that sort of solid foundation, which is unfortunate.


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Old Post May 13th, 2018 10:07 AM
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MythLord
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The Flying Spaghetti Monster.


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Old Post May 13th, 2018 11:00 AM
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riv6672
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1. Because iím not a pessimist.

2. Proof, same as it would take the pessimists -to- believe.


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Old Post May 13th, 2018 11:24 AM
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Mindship
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1. I believe what I believe cuz of evidence and/or utility.
2. To challenge that: stronger counter-evidence and/or faded utility.


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Old Post May 13th, 2018 09:01 PM
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Damborgson
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Interesting responses thumb up out of curiosity, are you guys atheists, spiritual, devoted religious people, anything else ?


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Old Post May 13th, 2018 11:18 PM
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Rockydonovang
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quote:
1. Because iím not a pessimist.

Lal, saying you need the hope of something you have no reason to think exists to have a optimistic outlook on life is the highest form of pessimism.

Old Post May 14th, 2018 01:02 AM
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riv6672
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Damborgson
Interesting responses thumb up out of curiosity, are you guys atheists, spiritual, devoted religious people, anything else ?

Asatru.


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Old Post May 14th, 2018 03:24 AM
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gauntlet o doom
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Religion was one of humanity's first attempts at explaining the world around us. Due to traditions and our basic humanity, we don't want to completely discard what was taught to us in the past.

Science is the latest and most developed system of explaining the world. Unfortunately, not everyone wants to get on board with this system.

Old Post May 14th, 2018 03:40 AM
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Flyattractor
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And To many are willing to treat Science as a New Religion and use it in improper ways just like the Religious Types are accused of.

Because Humanity is Humanity.


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Old Post May 14th, 2018 03:44 AM
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gauntlet o doom
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Flyattractor
And To many are willing to treat Science as a New Religion and use it in improper ways just like the Religious Types are accused of.


Not sure I completely agree with this. Science is based on theories and hypothesis; if something doesn't hold up to scrutiny it's discarded. Not a lot of scientists hold onto disproven papers and build a following around it.

Old Post May 14th, 2018 03:51 AM
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bluewaterrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by gauntlet o doom
Not sure I completely agree with this. Science is based on theories and hypothesis; if something doesn't hold up to scrutiny it's discarded.


Perhaps, but sometimes it takes SO long for this to happen that, from the point of view of an individual man living his life, it makes little sense to wait around for the scientific community to "catch up" to what even laymen often know.

Ignaz Semmelweis is a good and tragic example of this.

Old Post May 14th, 2018 09:46 AM
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Rockydonovang
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It takes so long because scientists put their theories through a rigorous process, unlike say, religion, or whatever "laymen knowledge" you're referring to.

Also, it's pretty telling the best example you came up with was back in 1865 and again, while it was slow, this notion that "laymen"would have done more is absurd since semmelweis's work only ever did anything because he became a scientist.

Overall, equating religion, unsubstantiated belief that can't meet any standard of proof. with science which goes out of it's way to make all it finds as reliable as possible is utterly. Finally, unlike different religions, the scientific community consists of different scientists who are independent of each other who can't force each other to do things. The "scientific community" isn't some kind of sect, it's just people across the world who also happen to base their beliefs on evidence rather than their personal whims and upbringing and simultaneously are open minded to what other qualified people say, hence the "community" bit.

Old Post May 15th, 2018 09:03 AM
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bluewaterrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
It takes so long because scientists put their theories through a rigorous process, unlike say, religion, or whatever "laymen knowledge" you're referring to.



Unfortunately that's NOT the only reason, or even necessarily the primary one.
In Semmelweis' case, a lot had to do with the fact that he was relatively shy, was not particularly good at presenting ideas, and had to face a lot of discrimination because of his ethnicity.

There's also the fact that, if the doctors who were delivering babies at the time accepted his ideas, they'd have to face the fact that they unwittingly murdered hundreds of their patients. That's not easy knowledge to deal with.

Old Post May 15th, 2018 11:10 AM
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bluewaterrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang

it's pretty telling the best example you came up with was back in 1865 ...


Perhaps, but it's probably not telling you what you think it's telling you.
Semmelweis happens to relate to my field of study and what I actually do in real life.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang

while it was slow, this notion that "laymen"would have done more is absurd since semmelweis's work only ever did anything because he became a scientist.


Actually, laymen DID do better. Semmelweis began his investigation because he noticed that a hospital staffed by midwives (laypeople) had less than 1/3rd the mortality rate of a hospital staffed by doctors.
Moreover, Semmelweis' failure to understand what we now call "germ theory" means the world had to wait for Pasteur.

But Semmelweis' simple, common sense handwashing practice could have saved many thousands before then.

Old Post May 15th, 2018 11:42 AM
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bluewaterrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Overall, equating religion, unsubstantiated belief that can't meet any standard of proof. with science which goes out of it's way to make all it finds as reliable as possible is utterly. Finally, unlike different religions, the scientific community consists of different scientists who are independent of each other who can't force each other to do things. The "scientific community" isn't some kind of sect, it's just people across the world who also happen to base their beliefs on evidence rather than their personal whims and upbringing and simultaneously are open minded to what other qualified people say, hence the "community" bit.



I suspect we're talking in different languages, which unfortunately look similar but don't have the same meanings ascribed to words. I would not, for instance, consider the teachings of a place like, say, the 7th Day Adventists as "unsubstantiated", which offers evidence that following Biblically inspired diets and practices lead to good Heath and longevity. Note that I am NOT Adventist myself. Even so ...

http://www.pbs.org/video/religion-e...sts-and-health/

Old Post May 15th, 2018 12:03 PM
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Bentley
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1) Why do I believe?

It makes me more generous with others and with myself. It also keeps we wondering on thing around me, finding reasons and ways to reinvent what I leave and where I stand. Since I see creation as a continuous process I also believe I'm able to recreate myself and what I live.

So pretty much out of convenience.


2) What would it take you to stop believing?

For specific things I think proof will always slightly shift my beliefs, which is good because understanding is to be challenged, belief is to be enriched. For big stuff, ultimately I don't think it matters whether I believe or not, truth will be or it won't, I live for the day as I'd live for eternity.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by gauntlet o doom
Religion was one of humanity's first attempts at explaining the world around us.


To say Religion was just meant to be an explanation for human experience is downright false though.


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Old Post May 15th, 2018 12:07 PM
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Wonder Man
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I like your siggy Bentley but men are quite comfortable with love.
Suffering occurs because of the Jelously Satan spoke of though.


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Old Post May 17th, 2018 10:35 PM
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Emperordmb
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Wonder Man
I like your siggy Bentley but men are quite comfortable with love.
Suffering occurs because of the Jelously Satan spoke of though.

Suffering occurs regardless of your moral character, even Jesus suffered, but it's the suffering of a kind that makes you feel twisted and rotten on the inside that is rooted in evil IMO


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Old Post May 17th, 2018 11:09 PM
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Wonder Man
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Opression is only the illusion of power.
Don't flee oppression my friend it will never survive.


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Old Post May 17th, 2018 11:20 PM
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