Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities
On The Jedi Exile; Malachor, Dromund Kaas, and Scaling Chains.
Recent arguments have been made on this forum perforated with logical fallacies and incomplete knowledge, focussed on how the Jedi Exile and KotOR II Era characters scale below Darth Nyriss. Many often claim that the location was negligible, that plenty of planets have generic ‘dark side is strong here’ accolades and use that to dismiss the Exile’s poor performance against Nyriss. This is simply untrue, proven in two primary sources in the form of ‘Star Wars the Old Republic: Revan’ and ‘Fate of the Jedi: Ascension’. This thread will seek not to ‘hype’ the Exile, but compile the complete picture of her Kaas City feat and show the significant difference between that and her feat on Malachor V.
To start with, one must acknowledge the reason the Exile was capable of holding off the effects of the Malachor V Nexus, and how she was capable of competing with hordes of Sith.
The Jedi Council elaborate on the Exile’s ability to draw on the power of the force:
The Exile, on Malachor V was within a short distance of her companions and could draw upon their connection to the force for strength. On top of this, she was able to feed on the Force Energy of the Assassins she killed to replenish her strength. Not only this, but the Exile is also capable of drawing upon the strength of other force sensitives around her:
Over the course of the game the Exile attempts to heal her wound, and comes close. On Telos when encountering the Ithorian herd, she managed to heal a portion of her wound:
The Essential Guide to Characters seems to support the notion her wound fully healed after the game, saying she had finished her training (after already having mastered all seven forms of Lightsaber Combat and many esoteric aspects of the force):
This couples with quotes from the Revan Novel that - when compared with quotes from KotOR II like the one above- indicate the Exile was no longer a wound in the force.
(NOTE: Before continuing, note that the Jedi Exile’s wound draining likely was enough to mitigate the Malachor Nexus, given how she describes it in the Revan Novel, it was not amping her beyond her normal means. This is evidenced by Sion suggesting later in the timeline she would wield even more power)
With this established, Dromund Kaas’ negative influence must be discussed. Luke Skywalker, Ben Skywalker, Jaina Solo and Vestara all feel the negative influence of the Dromund Kaas nexus, and the nexus at the Dark Temple. Many people have questioned whether this nexus is applicable to the Nyriss/Emperor fight, and I will elaborate later as to why this is entirely unquestionable.
Luke, Ben and co sense the growing Nexus and feel its power from kilometers away:
In this visit to the Dark Temple, the group were ambushed by a group of Sith Sabers. They were ambushed because the Temple’s power drowned out other Force sensitives. Luke notes that Khai would send the sabers here because of the power of the Nexus, predicting it could make normal Sith a match for Luke, Jaina and Ben:
During the combat, Ben struggled to draw on the force, and Luke Skywalker - one of the most powerful Jedi in history - found his reflexes dulled and himself slowed.
Both Ben Skywalker and Luke were injured by the sabers they fought. Neither managed to overpower their foes with the Force, and had to work hard to win their fights with the blade.
If the Nexus of Dromund Kaas was enough to dull the senses of Luke, and allow Sith Sabers (categorically inferior to the Assassins Surik faced on Malachor) to tag Ben and himself, there is no doubt the effect it would have on the Exile is huge.
The Revan novel and SWTOR prove that this nexus is one which the Exile would have been dealing with in her duel against Nyriss in Kaas City.
Scourge muses at the beginning of the novel:
Now, Scourge remarks that he can draw on the strength of the Citadel from the edges of the City. Nyriss’ compound is also on the western edge of the city, within ‘drawing’ distance of the Citadel, and also significantly closer to the Dark Temple than the Citadel’ as evidenced by the introductory cinematic to the imperial Dromund Kaas stronghold in SWTOR. https://youtu.be/FJAXfk6wGQE?t=4
Note as well that we know this is the west of the City, as the City lies to the east of the Dark Temple according to the maps: https://imgur.com/q9n0dk0
What is important to notice as well is that the Sith Sabers were not planning to ambush Luke and the Jedi at the Dark Temple, they simply chose the planet. This is evidenced by Luke’s quote, and the fact that the Sith had to approach the Jedi from afar:
In essence; Dromund Kaas hindered Luke Skywalker and Ben Skywalker to the point where both could be injured by Sith Sabers that Luke himself considered fodder, poorly skilled and easy to exploit. It demonstrably dulled the senses of the most powerful Jedi in history and stopped Ben from calling upon the Force at full power. It thus dulled all three aspects of a Jedi’s force usage, Control, Sense and Alter. Furthermore the weak Sith that Luke was facing were empowered in every way. If weaker Sith with abysmal skills were amplified so strongly by this Nexus, a Sith Lord in her prime - one of the strongest Sith at a relative height of the Sith Empire’s power - would have been amplified astronomically as well. That the Exile even contended with Nyriss in this state is an immense feat, and that a Sith such as Scourge would consider her a challenge he is not sure he could beat also is. What’s more, resisting the will of the emperor that broke Jedi before her with ease and blitzing Imperial Guard solidifies her Dromund Kaas feats as sufficiently impressive, not lacklustre.
__________________ "i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.
Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities
For what it’s worth, there are two things the Exile does scale from that many aren’t aware of. For one, Canderous states that the Exile has proven that KotOR Revan was not a singular Jedi, implying parity with him in combat, before she experiences growth in the end game. This in my view places her above Kotor Revan (though firmly and substantially below the unavoidably more powerful Revan Reborn). Adding to this, Bastila on the Star Forge declares herself to be below the Jedi Council members such as Master Vrook, who are in turn surpassed by the Exile’s companions, who were dominated by Traya who in turn is surpassed by the Exile. Thus the Exile scales leagues above a Jedi described as having ‘immense power’, who could hold her own against Revan, Juhani and Jolee and even knock them back telekinetically, and who gave Revan a ‘frantic’ fight on the Star Forge. Go figure, hey? :>
__________________ "i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.
It means I can't half ass my CaV and use Nyriss scaling.
__________________
"You were weak when I found you. I did not expect you to survive your training. But now, your hatred has become your strength. At last, the dark side is your ally. "
Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities
If by a lot you don’t agree with you mean the Revan scaling, that’s fine and I really want someone to challenge me on it so we can settle it. I’m not trying to wank Surik per se I’m just not convinced there’s an alternative perspective.
That however isn’t really a conversation to have here, I’d be down for a new thread though. Out of curiosity, thoughts on the rest of it?
__________________ "i admire u choose cersei as ur avi sel. at least u know that ur one sick *****, i can respect that" - Inturpid.
__________________
"You were weak when I found you. I did not expect you to survive your training. But now, your hatred has become your strength. At last, the dark side is your ally. "
__________________
"You were weak when I found you. I did not expect you to survive your training. But now, your hatred has become your strength. At last, the dark side is your ally. "
Sorry for derailing your thread. Just checked and apparently either is correct.
__________________
"You were weak when I found you. I did not expect you to survive your training. But now, your hatred has become your strength. At last, the dark side is your ally. "