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Delandric
Junior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
 Oracle = Mother ?
Did the Architect reference the Oracle as the mother of the Matrix or was he talking about Trinity? |
May 20th, 2003 04:45 PM |
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trilight
Senior Member
Gender: Male
Location: In Orbit |
Oracle.
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May 20th, 2003 04:51 PM |
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Tex
Yumsz
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: Tampa, FL, USA |
Yeah the Oracle.
You could totally tell she's one of those momma types, always baking cookies and giving out candy.
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May 20th, 2003 05:28 PM |
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Dexx
wingless
Gender: Male
Location: Bucharest, Romania |
she gave the solution of the 'functional' matrix: choice
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May 20th, 2003 06:11 PM |
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FLIPMODE
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: NY |
But what confused me was why when Neo asked if he was referring the Oracle, the rather distastfully, the architect responded "Please".?
I know the Oracle was an important Program, but it's safe to say that her and the Architect are against each other.
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May 20th, 2003 07:37 PM |
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Dexx
wingless
Gender: Male
Location: Bucharest, Romania |
no...but the architect doesn't consider her to be an 'oracle', that's it. maybe he simply doesn't belive in such a concept
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May 20th, 2003 07:39 PM |
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Tevesh
Senior Member
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: houston |
i agree with flip. the architect distastfully dismissed neo's reference to the oracle. i believe the mother is persephone
__________________
Remember, drugs aren't the answer.
Unless the question is: What isn't the answer?
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May 20th, 2003 07:41 PM |
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SiFiKytn
Junior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
Yes, the "please" could have been " don't mention her to me, i don't like her (the Oracle)", or "pulease, like the Oracle could have been the cocreater of the Matrix. So Tevesh, should you wish to answer...if Persephone is the cocreator of the Matrix, why is she hiding out w/ the Merovingian? Do you think there was any sort of computer code significance to their kiss? What is her relation to the Architect? They were both wearing white btw.
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May 20th, 2003 11:07 PM |
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Darth Vicious
Senior Member
 Gender: Male
Location: Isla De La Muerte |
to me the only reason she is called the Oracle and its able to predict whats gonna happen is because shes seen it before the previous 5 times so she knows whats gonna happened
__________________
"A lie, Mr. Mulder, is most convincingly hidden between two truths." Deep Throat.
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May 20th, 2003 11:14 PM |
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FLIPMODE
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: NY |
Here's my understanding of the Oracle.
Im not sure why, but too many people have been easily swayed to the dark side after watching reloaded. Though part the Program, the Oracle is still very good. To understand more fully or exactly what the Oracle is, you have to listen her words carefully, and the words that lead up to her scene.
First off, when Neo asks the Asian "bodygaurd" what he does, he Specifically says" I Protect What Matters Most", now the camera leads you directly to who...The Oracle. She to HIM..."Matters Most". (Later I'll tell you what I think that could mean). But it means she's very important.
But getting back to the fact that the Oracle is important...or should I say WAS important.
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: The Oracle told EVERYTHING, just not in order. She said, in the Matrix..PROGRAMS are everywhere, the working Programs, are NOT SEEN. 2 Minutes Earlier she revealed that SHE IS A PROGRAM! Well guess what...if you can SEE the Oracle....THEN SHE IS NOT WORKING FOR THE MATRIX.
That right there ends all ideas of her leading Neo to the Architect, as PART of the mind control of the Matrix. Eventhough it makes her look bad, trust me, her leading Neo in that direction is part of her plan, as there probably is no other way to go about her plan. But what IS her plan??
Just Like Meravingian, and the monsters, they were ALL REPLACED by a better Program,..and SOME programs still exist and resist to go on and "do things they are NOT supposed to do". The Oracle IS doing something she's NOT supposed to do. She's HELPING MAN KIND. And if you hear the lack of respect the Arhitect has for her, you'll realize they are NOT on the Same team.
The Oracle is a program, that at some point in time came to the Realization, that Machines and Man, need to Co-exist! She basically revealed this aswell. This is her vue. But unfortunatly in order to do this, Mankind must Rise up, and be free of the Matrix. For a Program WITHIN the Matrix, this is unacceptable to say the least,..so she was replaced. (It's Possible,..Im not saying it's true, but the Oracle Perhaps WAS the Architect at one point, Or had Persephone's position at one point. Either way, the Oracle was VERY Important at ONE TIME, and her views were not accepted.)
But the fact is, she's not connected to the Matrix any longer, she does not abide by it, she's ON the RUN. It was revealed that she HAS MANY ENEMIES. Who would be after her?? The Matrix Ofcourse, and it's many abiding Programs. You See the architect is not Working hand in hand with the Oracle, if he knew where she was..he'd DELETE her.
Also Look at her as the Yoda of this Movie. They are both Concerned with bringing Balance to the force or world. Think about WHY the Matrix even exists. Because Man Created Machine in his image, the Machines REBELLED..get it THEY REBELLED, even THEY fought their own slavey! And are doing Exactly What happened to them, when MAN was in charge. Both Man and Human don't realize, though that, mankind cannot be stopped or controlled, any more than Machines can. The Machines are Trying to PERFECT the program for FREE WILL...And Man pretty much made Machines, thinking they had NO free will. Ironic? No. The point is, neither of the 2 will be totally Controlled. The Balance must emerge for this to end.
Maybe that will happen due to Agent Smith's new findings, or maybe the extention of Neo's machine enabled abilities in the real world.
Think about this..The Architect is Hell bent on findind the program of free will, through "The One's" right? And with NEO, this probably would have been the Last bit of info they needed to get that, perhaps.
But here's the tricky part..I believe that the Oracle's inner Belief is that, the Matrix will NEVER be able to copy that Free will and control it...THIS is why the Oracle helps speed up the process of finding "the ONE", for the Sole fact that this plan of the Architect, will Bite him in the ass in the end.
Because the Architect thinks, after a few "Neo's" come and go, He'll get Closer to the Answer to Sustaining the Matrix..indefinitly.
But the Oracle Believes..After a few Neo's Come and Go, Man will only get Stronger, and BETTER at being "The One", that eventually, not much would be able to stop him from bringing Balance to earth. The Matrix is trying to adapt, but after every generation of Neo, Man Evolves, becoming more unstoppable. So much so, that this new gained power will even extend into the REAL world. And if this Savior has Power OUTSIDE the Matrix....WHAT'S GOING TO STOP HIM FROM SAVING THE WORLD? Nothing.
Last edited by FLIPMODE on May 20th, 2003 at 11:40 PM
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May 20th, 2003 11:37 PM |
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Mithrandir
The Grey Wanderer
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
Good post, however i think that Neo is believed to be an anomally rather than "the one" by the machines. An anomally is one who's power extend only in the matrix where he is that percent that doesn't except it. In the beginning of the first movie you can see this through Neo's uncomfortability of the world around him, that slight feeling of amiss in his environment. When Neo becomes "the one" in the eyes of Morpheus, he only is believed to be an anomally in the eyes of the matrix, because Neo can only be the one if he can stop a sentinel from attacking and manipulate other machines outside the matrix, and throughout most of the second he is still considered anomally. Because the matrix cannot fully calculate the percentage of people who don't accept the matrix, anomallies, (the architect touched on this when he said that the variance was indetectable due to the complexity of the imperfection of the human psyche) they can never full say that Neo is not the one. I took a computer course, and it taught me that a computer can only read the decimals of a number to a certain extent and ten it stops. So the complex percentage of anomallies can only be read to a certain number and not to its full value. The computer than will round to the nearest readable decimal. The difference between the actual value of anomallies and the rounded is the percent chance that Neo is "the One" I hope this made sense.
__________________
Where is the Horse and the Rider?
Where was the horn that was blowing?
They have passed liked rain on the mountains.
Like Wind in the Meadows.
The days have gone down in the west.
Pella i amoni tenn' lumbule
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May 21st, 2003 01:19 AM |
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chico
chopper style
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: U.S.A. |
Does anyone besides me think that there is some connection with the cookies and candy that the oracle gives Neo, or is it that I overanalyze everthing in the movie?
__________________
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." --Friedrich Nietzsche
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May 21st, 2003 04:31 AM |
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Tevesh
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: houston |
Flip,
GREAT POST! i'm in agreement with you man!
SiFi,
The entire matrix is a system of control. The Architect says this. He knows that an anomaly is going to be created. While he can't stop it, or doesn't want to stop it, he can control it. This is in the dialogue between him and Neo. I also believe that Oracle is, or can be, or is possibly being used as another system of control. The agents also fall under this category. Knowing full well that they would need the keymaker to get to him (him being the architect), he has Persephone stay with the French dude, and help them. You gotta think now, why didn't he do anything once Persephone betrayed him? All he said was: "Woman, you'll be the death of me." and she skidadles. As the mother, she also symbolizes hope.
The Architect says:
"Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness."
Persephone provided strenght to the trio by allowing them to procure The Keymaker. But at the same time, she became a weakness by in a sense tearing Neo away from Trinity through her kiss. The seperation is only temporary, but it provided the weakness still.
__________________
Remember, drugs aren't the answer.
Unless the question is: What isn't the answer?
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May 21st, 2003 05:45 AM |
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Reep
Junior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
I also was wondering about the cookies and candy from the Oracle. Does this have any relation to the red pill or the interesting chocolate cake given to the blonde? Or is this just a red herring?
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May 21st, 2003 08:37 PM |
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REXXXX
Networking
 Gender: Male
Location: San Diego Moderator |
I just considered it candy, though I thought the candy being red was a strange coincidence.
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May 21st, 2003 10:04 PM |
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Tevesh
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: houston |
one thing i've heard was with the cookie. a cookie is what a website leaves behind on your computer so that your computer will "remember" that site. i guess she gave him the cookie, or an object like a cookie (candy) so that he will return to her later on.
No ideas on the cake though. Maybe something with causality that will be more important in the next movie?
__________________
Remember, drugs aren't the answer.
Unless the question is: What isn't the answer?
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May 22nd, 2003 12:51 AM |
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chico
chopper style
Gender: Unspecified
Location: U.S.A. |
Nice I like that theory Tevesh.
__________________
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." --Friedrich Nietzsche
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May 22nd, 2003 03:39 AM |
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Tevesh
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: houston |
how is red candy different from any other type of candy?
__________________
Remember, drugs aren't the answer.
Unless the question is: What isn't the answer?
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May 22nd, 2003 08:34 AM |
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mariosgr12
Junior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: Greece |
I read this theory, about the Matrix being in effect inside another Matrix, which means that what Zionists believe is real is in fact just another Matrix, to control them. This explains Neo's power of stopping the Sentinels in the real world. The read candy that the Oracle offers, is according to my theory, smt like the red pill that Morpheus offered Neo in the first movie. It helped him realise that what they thought was real is in fact another Matrix.
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May 22nd, 2003 08:48 AM |
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Tevesh
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: houston |
ah...never thought of that. Though, I don't believe Zion is another level of the matrix, or another matrix all together. It all has to do with Smith and Neo.
__________________
Remember, drugs aren't the answer.
Unless the question is: What isn't the answer?
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May 22nd, 2003 08:54 AM |
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