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!Seraph!
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Sifer

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United Kingdom

There are more biblical, buddhist, and many other religious connections in the Matrix than you will ever know smile

However it is the Merovingian who is the Fallen Angel, Lucifer. Now this DOES make sense completely as he CHOSE to want more power, but in turn didn't particularly get what he wanted. So he himself was decieved by "choice" hence the "choice is just an illusion......".

There is more to this concerning the Merovingian/Lucifer/Hades etc. Who was Lucifer struck down by? I wonder wink hint hint smile


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Sifer

Old Post Aug 19th, 2003 02:16 PM
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gabimr2

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oooooooooo!!! hahahaha well.. I think you're right ! wink


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Old Post Aug 19th, 2003 07:18 PM
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no expression

Attachment: dead.jpg
This has been downloaded 152 time(s).


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madee by.. the one himself love

pascuaLaaa rockss! Iam not so bad..once u get to know me angel

Old Post Aug 19th, 2003 07:22 PM
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FLIPMODE
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: NY

Wait you Said Seraph and Other angels are on Level 8 just below God.
SO

9-God
8-Angels-Seraph
7-?
6-Neo 6.0

This is how I see it:

9-God-The Oracle
8-Serpah-Angels The OTHER angels may appear in part 3
7-Now, Since Lucifer/Merovingian has been Struck down by God, would that make him More or Less powerfull than level 6??
6-Neo 6.0
5-The One
4-The One
3-The One
2-The One
1-The One

Old Post Aug 20th, 2003 12:31 AM
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FLIPMODE
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Location: NY

"Also, Lucifer is the Merovingian. Have a think why and how it can link in - you wont believe it if you put the pieces together (I have )"

Why Wont I believe it Sifer? Spill your knowledge.

Personally it seemed almost Blatant that The Oracle was being protected by Seraph, she "Mattered Most", therefore she is God.

So Im assuming she Struckdown Lucifer. Andwhat about the Holy Spirit is he in there too?

Old Post Aug 20th, 2003 12:34 AM
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nickjs21
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Cleveland

no, seraph protects the future, not the oracle. it is because the oracle is the one pushing the future along that seraph is with her.

this is my understanding of the lucifer story. perhaps we can unlock what sifer is giggling about:

lucifer was one of the highest angels in heaven (and yes, he had free will). he was sort of like heaven's prime minister of the angels. one day, an unrighteousness developed in lucifer, and he was cast out of heaven because of the 5 "I Will's" that he said to god --
(paraphrased)
1 -- i will rise over all of heaven
2 -- i will raise my throne higher than any other angel
3 -- my throne will be the center of the governing body of the universe
4 -- my glory will be more glorious than god's
5 -- i will become like god, if not better

god apparently did not strike lucifer down immediately -- he waited to see if lucifer would repent. otherwise, lucifer would have been thrown out after his first "i will." instead, god waited for him to finish, and cast him to earth. lucifer then became what we think of as "satan." he was absolutely corrupted and became bitter and evil. he created his own throne in hell. with him, he convinced an entire third of heaven's angels to go with him and help create his kingdom. the angels apparently had mistakenly thought that lucifer (their "prime minister") was the one that gave them power -- and thus, they would continue to be as powerful in hell. they did not realize that they got their power from god -- through lucifer, but by god. they too became bitter and evil. when it was all said and down, god mourned over lucifer's choice. even though he became satan, god still referred to him as "lucifer," his light-bearer, and brightest of his stars.

so . . . sifer, isn't it god that struck lucifer down? or maybe you're hinting at michael, the angel that stuck by god? either way, who do you think represents those characters in the movies?

i can see several similarities between lucifer and the merovingian. namely, that the merovingian is an outcast and seats his throne in a type of hell -- the matrix (we know how agent smith felt of the matrix, so i imagine many other AI's shared that sentiment). he obviously has a thirst for power. lucifer was called the God of Self Love, and the merovingian certainly appears to be quite vain and full of himself.

but i'm interested again, sifer, by who you are referring to when you say, "Who was Lucifer struck down by?" -- if you mean god, i would suppose that the architect plays that role in the movie, and so the merovingian was thrown out by the architect. hmm. or, if you mean michael, maybe that's the oracle? the oracle and seraph, side by side, representing angels? unless the oracle is god, and the architect isn't . . .

*massive head scratch*

by the way, flipmode, good thinking on the order of the characters . . . i never would have thought of that.


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"what we obtain too easily, we esteem too lightly." -- Thomas Paine

Old Post Aug 20th, 2003 04:11 AM
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nickjs21
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help me out here, sifer. am i scratching the surface?


__________________
"i don't know half of you half as well as i should like, and i like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." -- Bilbo Baggins

"what we obtain too easily, we esteem too lightly." -- Thomas Paine

Old Post Aug 20th, 2003 04:11 AM
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Sifer

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United Kingdom

Michael.....


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Sifer

Old Post Aug 20th, 2003 05:49 PM
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nickjs21
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Gender: Male
Location: Cleveland

michael? ok, this is what i researched on michael:

"Michael is our sword and our shield against evil. He is heaven's defender. Michael was thought to be the angel that handed down the ten commandments. Prince of Light is one of his names and he was often called upon at the hour of death. He appears when we or the world are really in need. He is often referred to as the Prince of the Angels.

In the bible he is said to have been a friend of Lucifer before the fall of the Angels but became the Christian war cry against the Christian enemies, including Satan. Michael is said to be able to rescue our souls when most in need, particularly at the time of death. Though he is also the Angel of Judgement of humankind's souls.

Micahel's name is mentioned in the Bible four times, but he is a very important Archangel in Christian tradition. Michael was the patron of the church and was taken up as patron by many of the military orders that formed around the Crusades. He was Mikha`el in Hebrew, Mika`il or Mikha`il in Arabic, and his name means Who Is Like God.

Michael is said to be the Angel who appeared to Moses as the fire in the burning bush and to have handed him the ten commandments. In the book of Revelation it is Michael who leads his heavenly armies against the Dragon (Revelation 12:7). In the Catholic Epistle of St. Jude Michael is said to have disputed with Satan over the body of Moses. He is the patron Angel of Israel.

In his many depictions during the history of art he is usually pictured in armor, carrying a lance or sword, often with his foot on the neck of a dragon. He may sometimes carry the scales of justice.

Saint Michael the Archangel, as leader of the heavenly army, was viewed as the patron of every Christian knight. Men went to Michael for protection in battle. Medieval women feared losing their lives during childbirth and for protection in birth, they, too, went to visit the shrines of Michael."

i still don't know who that's supposed to be. neo? or are we sticking strictly with the machine world?


__________________
"i don't know half of you half as well as i should like, and i like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." -- Bilbo Baggins

"what we obtain too easily, we esteem too lightly." -- Thomas Paine

Old Post Aug 20th, 2003 06:04 PM
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GABRIEL05
Doom Herald

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

quote:
Originally posted by Socrates
And we are taught that God is all powerful, and all good. Yet Satan needs permission from God to tempt man, so either God isn't all good, that he allows such temptation from Satan towards man, or he isn't all powerful, that he can stop Satan from tempting man...

Ugh, christanity. I'll take my Buddhism anyday.


My friend, my fine feathered friend, you're missing the KEY concept in all this. Remember what Neo said "The problem is choice". While I'm using it way out of context, what I'm saying is God created choice. He didn't necessarily create evil, but rather allowed it to exist. Our (humans) main choice in life is to choose God over evil. That's why God allowed Satan to tempt man. I don't know what that has to do with the matrix, but I just wanted to clear that up. However whether we truly do have choice, you determine that for yourself. It's your choice to believe or not.


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Old Post Aug 20th, 2003 06:07 PM
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Sifer

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United Kingdom

It's all good with the information my friend, but try not to just link what is said about Michael to the person in the film. Have you watched the Animatrix?

If so, watch it again.

I will add one other thing - what you said about Mero being cast down by God - Well, that is also correct. But as to Michael...keep going smile


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Sifer

Last edited by Sifer on Aug 20th, 2003 at 06:16 PM

Old Post Aug 20th, 2003 06:14 PM
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GABRIEL05
Doom Herald

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

Oh and I don't know if this helps any Nick, but lucifer was struck down by Michael under orders, if you will, from God. But as for seraph, if his role is that of a "protector", then there has to be more of his kind out there.


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Old Post Aug 20th, 2003 06:18 PM
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nickjs21
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Gender: Male
Location: Cleveland

i have watched the animatrix . . .

obviously not closely enough.

*sigh* i'll be back later . . .


__________________
"i don't know half of you half as well as i should like, and i like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." -- Bilbo Baggins

"what we obtain too easily, we esteem too lightly." -- Thomas Paine

Old Post Aug 20th, 2003 06:20 PM
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gabimr2

Gender: Female
Location: Méxiicop =)

mmm animatrix?.. I have watch that "movie" too..
but I dont understand a lot ot things! embarrasment
I dont like animatrix roll eyes (sarcastic)


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madee by.. the one himself love

pascuaLaaa rockss! Iam not so bad..once u get to know me angel

Old Post Aug 20th, 2003 06:54 PM
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SpikeSpiegel
Swimming Bird

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michael...animatrix...michael is the kids name...michael trotter or something like that i'm sure of it.


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Old Post Aug 20th, 2003 06:59 PM
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gabimr2

Gender: Female
Location: Méxiicop =)

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!! embarrasment
hahah thanks!!! stick out tongue


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madee by.. the one himself love

pascuaLaaa rockss! Iam not so bad..once u get to know me angel

Old Post Aug 20th, 2003 07:05 PM
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Sifer

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United Kingdom

wink


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Sifer

Old Post Aug 21st, 2003 02:11 AM
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gabimr2

Gender: Female
Location: Méxiicop =)

hahaha smile.. hey I got a pic of seraph...

Attachment: rodeado.jpg
This has been downloaded 132 time(s).


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madee by.. the one himself love

pascuaLaaa rockss! Iam not so bad..once u get to know me angel

Old Post Aug 21st, 2003 02:56 AM
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nickjs21
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Gender: Male
Location: Cleveland

is it just me, or is that the hobo-looking train station guy from the preview and etm standing on the right with his back turned to us?

but anyway . . . so you're saying that michael, the little twerp with an acknowledged "larger role" in the finale, was the "person" who struck the merovingian down from the--what--mainframe? so michael isn't human, then? he's more like seraph? or is he an enemy?

but if seraph is an outcast too . . . how's that all fit in?

dude . . . this is a noggin' cooker. are you sure about all this? or is it just a theory? i mean, if it's just a theory, i'll respect that and give you props for really using your head -- but do you have some kind of palpable evidence for any of this?


__________________
"i don't know half of you half as well as i should like, and i like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." -- Bilbo Baggins

"what we obtain too easily, we esteem too lightly." -- Thomas Paine

Old Post Aug 21st, 2003 03:31 AM
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gabimr2

Gender: Female
Location: Méxiicop =)

quote:
Originally posted by nickjs21
is it just me, or is that the hobo-looking train station guy from the preview and etm standing on the right with his back turned to us?


mmm.. the guy that is in the right? with long hair???


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madee by.. the one himself love

pascuaLaaa rockss! Iam not so bad..once u get to know me angel

Old Post Aug 21st, 2003 06:11 AM
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