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yerssot
Senior Member
Registered: Jul 2001
Location:
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Ki-Adi-Mundi (I think) HAS a binary brain so no discussion about it that having a binary brain is not good to resamble a human.
What I was trying to say was that animals also look and have speach
The whole point is not that droids are human, but that if you kill a droid, the chances that you kill a human whitouth blinking are more likely
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Aug 1st, 2001 08:57 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UKCo-Admin
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That;s very lose thinking, yerssot- if the droids are just hardware I very much doubt if fighting them makes you more of a killer.
KAM's binary brain has nothing at all in common with droid computer programming. And above all else, HE is presented as sentient, while the droids are not.
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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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Aug 1st, 2001 09:11 PM |
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yerssot
Senior Member
Registered: Jul 2001
Location:
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KAM's binary brain has nothing at all in common with droid computer programming
computers are binary; battledroids are also binary.
- if the droids are just hardware I very much doubt if fighting them makes you more of a killer.
They move, speak, think etc. they resemble humans, so it doesn't make you a killer, I said that if you kill a droid whitouth blinking, you probably kill a human also whitouth blinking.
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Aug 1st, 2001 09:19 PM |
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queeq
Chaos
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bedModerator
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So what you're saying is, is that when you shoot droids you lose perspective on the value of living things. Because they both move and resemble each other, you won't mind killing either of them on the long run. Okay, well, that's a long debate. Similar to the debate on the effect of 1st person shoot 'm ups computer games.
Some argue that by constantly playing shoot-em-ups, once gets so used to shooting at people (or monsters or droids) that sort of forms a callous on your soul.
Okay, now there are two problems with that. One is that there is still no hard evidence that there is a correlation between the two, despite some unpleasant killings in the US by teenagers who did in fact spend A LOT of time behind their computer playing such games.
The other is that the Jedi don't spend weeks or months non-stop killing of battle droids. Nor is that all we get to see in SW. It's more like taking out flack or cannons, offensive or defensive armoury that is out to get your hide. The fact that they move and talk makes no difference.
And there will always be the difference in your mind between taking out a machine and a living, breathing organism. Unless your brain is already so blunt that one should wonder if you can be called human at all.
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Aug 2nd, 2001 08:49 AM |
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yerssot
Senior Member
Registered: Jul 2001
Location:
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So what you're saying is, is that when you shoot droids you lose perspective on the value of living things.
That's correct
Well, Jedis are trained to keep the peace and justice. They train with lightsabres to preserve that. If you train with lightsabres too others, you get the same effect with the shoot-'m-uppers. You have to realize that they come in at age 1 and leave at age 14, they than have a master (if they are lucky) and go on for another ... years, so they already did learn alot with the lightsabre. With that you can say that when they kill something like a walking, speeking, thinking droid they can easily kill a human or an alien (they are also there in the SW universe)
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Aug 2nd, 2001 09:04 AM |
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queeq
Chaos
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bedModerator
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"A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense. Never for attack."
There.
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Aug 2nd, 2001 12:28 PM |
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yerssot
Senior Member
Registered: Jul 2001
Location:
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I said that a few pages before.
I'm still trying to say that even if it is for defences you should feel remorse for killling a living thing, droids represent very closely such living things so if you kill one, you should at least feel sorry for it
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Aug 2nd, 2001 12:42 PM |
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queeq
Chaos
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bedModerator
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"A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind." I don't think feeling sorry for a computer falls under that category. It defies any common sense.
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Aug 2nd, 2001 01:27 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UKCo-Admin
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Did it ever occur to you, Yerssot, that the fact that Jedi are able to so casually 'kill' Battle Droids is PROOF that they are non-sentient? I would reckon the Jedi know what they are doing.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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Aug 2nd, 2001 05:43 PM |
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queeq
Chaos
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bedModerator
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Amen
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Aug 2nd, 2001 06:54 PM |
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yerssot
Senior Member
Registered: Jul 2001
Location:
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Did it occured to you that killing droids cassual is a result that they have trained longenough and that they are blurred by that so they don't even feel sorry for killing a droid?
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Aug 2nd, 2001 07:01 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UKCo-Admin
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No it didn't, Yersot, because the Jedi are good guys in a world with simple black and white morality (just like a Western as I explained above), so there can be no doubting them.
Haven't the films hammered in long enough just how good and true and noble the Jedi were? Just as GL wanted them? They would not do anything bad! They are pretrty much incapable of it unless they fall. Being on the Light Side precludes evil, or even questionable actions.
Little wonder they drum into you so hard just how bad the Dark Side is!
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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Aug 2nd, 2001 07:07 PM |
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yerssot
Senior Member
Registered: Jul 2001
Location:
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Haven't the films hammered in long enough just how good and true and noble the Jedi were? Just as GL wanted them? They would not do anything bad!
And the 12 fallen jedi?
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Aug 2nd, 2001 07:11 PM |
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queeq
Chaos
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bedModerator
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Oops, Ush brought out the big guns now.
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Aug 2nd, 2001 07:11 PM |
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yerssot
Senior Member
Registered: Jul 2001
Location:
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Those guns are already 12 days old
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Aug 2nd, 2001 07:19 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UKCo-Admin
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Yes, 12 failing out of 10,000. Falure is inevitable in any walk of life.
The fact that these people are such a source of shame goes to show something, doesn't it?
Assuming these '12' you talk of are evil, then the point of them is to show what happens to those who DO mess up. Their verey exostence goes to contrast against the good person that is a normal Jedi.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
Last edited by Ushgarak on Aug 2nd, 2001 at 07:30 PM
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Aug 2nd, 2001 07:28 PM |
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yerssot
Senior Member
Registered: Jul 2001
Location:
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Those 12 are so blurred by fight-training that they can't see good and evil.
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Aug 2nd, 2001 07:38 PM |
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queeq
Chaos
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bedModerator
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Yes, I'm sure it's the fight training. That's it. 
12 fall after thousands of years with a total of millions of Jedi and the only motivation man has to go bad is excessive fight training. Not really VERY believable.
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Aug 2nd, 2001 07:49 PM |
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yerssot
Senior Member
Registered: Jul 2001
Location:
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Those 12 just lost it, the others are on an edge
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Aug 2nd, 2001 07:55 PM |
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queeq
Chaos
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bedModerator
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Proof please?
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Aug 2nd, 2001 08:06 PM |
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