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darth fester
jay & silent bobs friend
Registered: Apr 2001
Location: geordie in milton keynes
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Vaders Hand
how come vader died when he got his hand chopped off
he chopped lukes hand off and he didnt die
also luke turned to the dark side when he was fighting vader you could see the anger flowing through him
but then he calmed down
i may be wrong but didnt yoda say something about one you turn to the dark side theres no turning back
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Apr 23rd, 2001 09:24 AM |
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queeq
Chaos
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bedModerator
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I think Vader died becuase of the lightning damage from Palpy. Obviously Vader was weakened by the fight with Luke, but the loss of his hand didn't kill him.
As for Luke's using the dark side, you have just touched my favourite topic. For me it demonstrates that Luke is the true chosen one. He is the first to turn back from the Dark Side. He showed his father the way. Just because Vader chucked Palpy down the shute when he was pre-occupied in killing Luke, people say he is the chosen one.
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Apr 23rd, 2001 01:53 PM |
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JediOasis
Better Man
Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Born on a Different Cloud
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People say that Anakin is the choosen one cause that what George Lucas says. However, I agree with you completely and that Luke should be the choosen one, but it doesn't appear thats the way its going to work out.
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"I loved it the first time I saw it. It's goodies and baddies, cowboys and Indians in space. I was a child when it came out and it still appeals to me now. It is one of my favourite films ever and Darth Vader is best."
-Noel Gallagher
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Apr 23rd, 2001 02:27 PM |
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queeq
Chaos
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bedModerator
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Nope, alas. Would have been the better script though.
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Apr 23rd, 2001 03:07 PM |
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darth fester
jay & silent bobs friend
Registered: Apr 2001
Location: geordie in milton keynes
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but vader didnt get hit by palpys lightning
luke took it all
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Go Go Power Rangers
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Apr 23rd, 2001 03:27 PM |
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queeq
Chaos
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bedModerator
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When Vader lifted him he got him badly, even his skeleton lit up underneath all that armour. (which is a nice side effect since these skeleton shots reveal part of Vader's bones replaced by metal, there's a very good website on Vader's anatomy based on these shots)
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Apr 23rd, 2001 03:39 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UKCo-Admin
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Queeq is right about Vader's death.
On the Chosen One topic- it's odd that you argue that way... feel free to think that Luke is the better hero. But how can you possibly argue that he makes a better Chosen One? The Chosen One IS Anakin; ANY definition of said Chosen One will be plot-tailored to fit Anakin Skywalker. GL would have to be pretty dumb to make ANOTHER character fit the Prophecy better than tbe one it describes. Luke isn't a Force Vergence, as the Chosen One obviously has to be.
Why so desperate for him to be the CO, anyway? It's just a title. Not being the CO doesn't make you any less anything. Just look at Han, he's not mentioned in ANY Prophecy, yet they would look stupid without him...
All that aside... Luke COULDN'T beat the Emperor. Only Anakin could do that. Luke just played a VITAL supporting role.
Plot-wise, the impact of the Prophecy would only be truly felt if the CO were in all 6 episodes. So Luke doesn't fit in that respect either.
Luke is the greatest hero of the Saga. Isn't that good enough for you?
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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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Apr 23rd, 2001 07:07 PM |
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Darth Pants
Senior Member
Registered: Mar 2001
Location: England
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You can understand why some think that Luke's cutting off of Vader's hand killed Vader, firstly, Vader's seriously unhealthy breathing started straight after the fight with Luke had ended and secondly, Palpatine never seemed to be 'angling' the lightning (a physicist shudders to have to say that) at Vader, and you have to be darned quick to spot his flashing bones/metal bits. I always assumed it was the ferocity of Luke's attack which wore the already crippled old geezer out, until I checked the general opinion on the internet.
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Apr 23rd, 2001 11:08 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UKCo-Admin
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Really? Odd. It never struck me as being any other way.
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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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Apr 23rd, 2001 11:11 PM |
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queeq
Chaos
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bedModerator
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Yes, I agree with the Pantsman here.... a bit. I mentioned that Vader was probably worn out by that fight, because of the breathing. Tha may only have been a mechanical malfunction though. But Palpy's lighting defintality did him in.
As for Luke as the CO, I hate the prophecy bit because it was thought up AFTER the OT was complete. The entire OT does not fit the pursuit of a prophetic saviour.
Also, we do not KNOW the prophcey speaks of a Vergence in the Force, only of "the One who will bring balance to the Force". So that condition does not count at all. If killing off a Sith is the only condition of restoring balance, then OB1 fits the profile as well.
Why I think Luke fits the profile better is simply because Anakin/Vader doesn't do anything but kill off people with sabres and choke holds. He's evil, all the way. Luke holds on to the light side, despite his heavy ordeal, despite all the suffering and great temptation. And then when he falls for the Dark Side after Vader's sister line, he manages to turn back, resisting Palpy. He leaves himself defenseless, suffers from it almost to death, but through that suffering and through the path he has shown Vader that a turn is possible, Vader turns as well and chucks the totally distracted Palpy down the chute.
If I'm allowed to make any religious parrallels here, that profile of Luke fits that of the best known Messiah of all: Jesus.
That's why, Ush.
And I know it's not gonna be this way, but it'd be a lot better.
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Apr 24th, 2001 07:37 AM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UKCo-Admin
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Um... when Qui-Gon mentions the vergence they pretty quickly catch onto what he is talking about.
And your implication that Luke should be the Chosen One simply because he is BETTER makes no sense at all.
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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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Apr 24th, 2001 07:19 PM |
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Darth Pants
Senior Member
Registered: Mar 2001
Location: England
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You know, I hope GL's planning answers to all these questions, good ones at that. The further he gets into the saga, the more he's going to have to tie it up from both ends, if you get my meaning. I bet that there's some people around who will have given the whole saga more thought than he has, and will be very disappointed with his explanations when they arrive. 2 & 3 will have to be absolute classics if they are done in the style of the previous films, with great action and pace and the ability to send that wave of all-knowing realisation over the audience at the end of episode 3. Do we all have faith in that? I'll say I do, but at least one burning question will be left unanswered.
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Apr 24th, 2001 10:30 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UKCo-Admin
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GL says the Force disappearing thing IS important, but the 3P0 memory thing (the other big debate) is not...
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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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Apr 24th, 2001 11:08 PM |
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