Your idea, that Neo goes into a coma, BECAUSE he’s not blindfolded at the end of Reloaded is an EXCELLENT idea.
“Irrevocably human” comes to mind. He may’ve transcended his predecessors, but he’s “just a man,” as the Mero says.
It makes perfect sense.
However: I think that when he jacked out after rescuing Trinity a copy of his residual self-image/digital self was already left behind in the Matrix. Or a part/shadow of his digital self.
The copy wasn’t fully formed at that time, but the duplication happened when Neo visited the Architect.
Imagine, if you will, that the Architects two-door choice was a hoax. The choice was an illusion, and only there to make the One THINK he had a choice. Trying to return to the Matrix would kill the One, and thereby delete his digital self (incl. The anomaly) and send it straight to the Source.
But since Neo was driven by something as machine-elusive as love, it didn’t work. The frame of a copy was created instead, (or his digital self was divided) and it did reach the Source, but wasn’t deleted as it wasn’t really Neo’s residual self-image.
So either not all of Neo’s digital self returned to him, or a shadow of it was left near the Source.
When the sentinels attacked in the real world at the end of Reloaded, Neo became instantly aware of this connection/duplication. The “bad set-up” sounds good to me.
We do see Neo waking up in the real world. But how is he jacked out? We know the “copy” (lets’ call it that for now), will be used later on in the movie, to deal with the sentinels, when Neo and Trin flies to (presumably) 01.
Bane vs. Neo. “See past the flesh.” Does that mean, that Smith is aware of Neo’s ability to be both in the real and the virtual world at the same time?? If Bane/Smith is still in contact with the Matrix, as Simple suggests, then it makes sense.
The Speak-machine probably gives neo Smith’s termination code. Or something along the lines. And upgraded Norton Virus killer. Something which Neo ahs to “insert” into the original Smith to delete him.
Orange glow: I’m not really sure WHAT to think here. If Neo sees past Bane’s exterior, to the machine CODE of Smith, it’s conceivable that Neo sees in machine-code, period.
But he sees inside the Matrix itself, and Smith is a Matrix entity. Corridors and Sentinels are not in the Matrix, nor do they have representations in that virtual world, that Neo could “see”.
So that doesn’t really make any sense.
T
I’m back to Seraph’s golden code. How does Neo get upgrades from the Machine-world? I think that’s the golden tentacles. The machines also need to RESTORE his digital self, his residual self-image to that, which we see in the final fight with Smith. Until that time we only seen Neo in the limbo-suit.
I still think the glowing corridor and golden tentacles happen after the Speak-machine plugs into Neo. Usually when, plugged in, the transferral to the Matrix is instantaneous. But Neo needs upgrades and to get all the parts of his self-image back together (that may also be why he needs the machines. They can do that).
Since Neo visits the Speak-machine probably right after he’s been stopping sentinels, his digital self can’t be uploaded as usual. It’s already INSIDE the Matrix.
This would go along with SimplePriests idea, that Neo visits the Oracle RIGHT after he’s rescued from the Merovingian. He’s probably powerless in that state. The anomaly code is in the real-world Neo, while the digital self is like a normal human beings.
So the Speak-machine has to give him udgrades and join Neo’s very real-world looking self-image with his residual Matrix self. That’s what the corridor and golden tentacles do. Neo is “walking” inside a cable so to speak. Inside a computer software program.
__________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
I'm going to sit down and think about some of those other points that you brought up... They were all good. If you think of anything else please let me know.
(lol, I could probably come up with a pretty good fake spoiler if I tried. I should watch some harry potter previews and go terrorize their forum JJ, of course )
Gender: Unspecified Location: Watching You Right Now
there is also a orange image of smith saying "I am not such a bad guy, once you get to know me"(or something to that effect) the important part is "once you get to know me" this makes me think hes talking to the oracle, which means she also see orange code????? hmmmm not sure, anyone? im sure it has to do with the "get me the oracles eyes" quote huh?
Simple> Statistically we should get one or two things right.
Or maybe, by the time I leave the theatres on November the 5th the W-brothers will, again, have mesed me up totally
Another point:
I do not think the machines cheat on Neo. Notice, that the machines have not lied this far. They may withhold the truth (The Oracle certainly has about Neo’s predecessors), but they haven’t lied. SO IF the Speak-machine is to agree to make a truce with mankind, if Neo cleanses the Matrix of the Smith-virus I think it’ll work.
I think Neo fights the legion of Smith WHILE the sentinels are attacking Zion. If he wins there will be a truce, if he looses… well, goodbye human race.
And then Neo will indeed END the war after all. That would be SO Wachowski. M1: Neo is THE ONE. M2: Yeah, but it’s just a program-code and a system of control, “The One was never meant to end anything.” M3: Well damn. Neo DOES stop the war. Maybe, as Niobe says, “I still don’t. I believe in him.” It’s not The One who ends the war, it is Neo (and then we can debate endlessly about free will and choice ).
__________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
Omega> You astound me once again. That's an excellent idea about Neo and ending the war. Wow, maybe we should stop trying to figure this movie out. I think we're going to spoil it for ourselves.
Whether or not we're right, we certainly are coming up with a very good story
Maybe we will SPOIL it for ourselves. But:
Look at it this way: Now we have something that looks like an idea of how Revolutions begin. Mobil Ave, Limbo-Neo, little girl, Rama, club Hel, Mero/Perse, fighting. Neo visits Oracle, wake up. Fights Smith.
And we have an idea about how it all ends: Trin/Neo to 01 (Speak-machine). Neo’s jacked in, gets up-grades, fights Smith. Machines attack Zion.
It’s really not THAT much. And certainly not a 2 + hour movie. So what in Neo’s name happens in the middle? What are we missing? What is NOT in the trailers?
Morpheus has to find Niobe/Ghost and Sparks. Okay. But what else?
__________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
Sifer> Those up there were the general “ideas”. The entire point is, that we’re missing the “middle” of the movie. Everything in the trailers can either be placed as “this is probably in the beginning” and “this could likely be near the end”.
I do think that a truce/deal between man and machine would be a nice twist. And much more Wachoski-like than “it’s all about love.” That, IMHO, is too much like a bad soap-opera.
__________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
All of that is nice and dandy, but, you say that the digital Neo is powerless, a regular human because of the "swap". We see Neo get punched by the Trainman, he nearly goes through a wall, how could he still be a normal human if he nearly gets punched through a wall and looks up as if he was'nt even phased...
__________________
Check out my fic "The Warrior to Unite"
When Neo Morpheus and Trinity first went to see Merovingian, it felt to me that they were simply pawns in a game between the Oracle and Merovingian - M even knew that the Oracle sent them. Now, we know that Persephone kissed Neo, and some believe there might have been some kind of program attached to the kiss. We also know from ETM that the Oracle speaks of a child that she promised to protect, and the child’s parents. Finally, we believe that Merovingian has Neo trapped at the Mobile Ave. station.
Here is what I am thinking. The Oracle knows that Merovingian has the child. She needs/wants/promised to protect the child. She believes/knows that Neo is her best protection and that there is no way to get there, unless they let Merovingian trap you. She also knows that Merovingian would want to trap or obtain Neo’s powers. So, she sends Neo over to see Merovingian, expecting that he will be caught and put in the same prison as the child. This way, Neo could then protect the child. Additionally, the parents have the Oracle’s termination codes. This is something the Oracle wants to protect. So sending Neo there is to her benefit.
Merovingian, expecting a visit from Neo (because all the other “Ones” have come to him before) has Persephone give Neo a kiss with a program in it. The program is a tracking/copying program. When Neo jacks out of the Matrix after saving Trinity, Merovingian still has a connection to Neo. This is how Neo is in both the Matrix and the real world. And this is how Merovingian traps Neo. But, because Neo was so close to the Source, he now can see or feel or operate things in the machine world, through the source. (His mind in the matrix is talking with his mind in the real world – that is why things “feel” different.)
Neo is in a coma like state because his mind in the Matrix it doing all the work, so his body in the real world is hanging limp just like when people normally jack into the Matrix.
__________________ The past is over. The future a lump of clay. Get dirty and mold it.
Another Smithy> By “Normal” I mean as “normal” in the Matrix as, say, Trinity or Morpheus when they’re jacked in. I’m tryng to figure out why Neo doesn’t wear his “The One” outfit at Mobil Ave.
Sifer> Love is part of being human. But it’s not all there is to life.
Tshirt> The Oracle never promised to protect anything. She said she LET the two programs sell the termination code of her old shell to the Merovingian. And she did that, because she believes that one day the child would be important to man and machine alike.
Are you saying, that when the Oracle sends Neo and co. to the Mero to get the Keymaker, she’s really sending him there to get caught? It doesn’t work. The father of the child isn’t seen UNTIL Neo and co. reaches the Mero’s restaurant, and in ETM Ghost doesn’t meet with the oracle (who explains her new look) until later in the parallel story (around the end actually).
And if Persephones Kiss was a tracker/copyer, then Niobe and Ghost would be copied as well. It’s been explained in may articles by now, that Persephone and Mero are two jaded old programs, a little like emotional vampires. Think old European aristocracy: Rich, wealthy, bored to death.
__________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
(Slaps forehead).
Yes, HUMAN love! It is an ASPECT of human life, but the struggle in The Matrix is not for the RIGHT to love. It’s for freedom, free will, about choices, and the consequences of choices. About the things, ALL the things, that makes us human. Our ability to love is just an aspect of being human (which btw: is so abused in modern entertainment it’s sickening. 99 % of ALL songs are about love, 80% of all movies. I can SEE where this theory is coming from: Earth 2003. )
__________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
KMC Community Forums
Oct 1st, 2003 04:38 AM
JJ, of course 
