i've already addressed the issue of onslaught a thousand and 1 times. first off. politics. that's right. politics. they needed somebody to lend credibility on a large scale to onslaught. somebody who had never been defeated via physical force. hulk, thor, hercules, ironman, all have been defeated like this. juggernaut however hasn't. again, dr.strange stated that somehow onslaught was severing cain marko from his bonds. Juggernaut would have been severely depleted of his power. thus making him vulnerable. just like thor did in one of his battles. also the first battle was not show, all we know is juggernaut landed, and has no memory of the fight except onslaught hit him. it could have been an implanted memory. but since it wasn't shown all we can do is speculate. second fight, onslaught pulls a gem out of his chest (which wasn't there in the first place) his phsychic myst manifested, the background changed = no longer in the mansion. it was psionics yet again. about dc crossovers. most were voted upon. another thing, wonderwoman once stated superman litterally had enough power to kill her with 1 punch. the same superman that couldn't even take venom, with spiderman's help. the same venom that was trashed by juggernaut. doesn't make much sense does it? another reason why crossovers shouldn't be use. batman being able to hit hard enough with human level strength to knock wind out of hulk??? now as far as i'm aware no human on earth is that strong. crossovers completely contradict themselves. let alone trying to use them as reliable information. like i said, even in the marvel directory they compare hulk and juggernaut's strength by NAME. they say that they rival each other as the strongest beings on the planet. which is false, considering that apocalypse is stronger than either or. so you are not only aurguing with me, but marvel's stat's also. i don't see what you dont' get about that. hulk has never survived a nuclear blast at point blank. but juggernaut however can survive it. if yur talking about durability, juggernaut wins no if's no and's and no but's. but hulk has never proven to be a superior to juggernaut in any incarnation when dealing with strength. except war, whom he couldn't get to that level of power by himself. even then the gap didn't seem all that great.
It seems that it is the Juggernaut's mind not his brain that is vulnerable. For example... if you layed Juggernaut's brain on a table and hit it with a hammer as hard as you could it would do nothing to it. You need the powers of a telepath like Professor X or simulated telepathic machinery like Nimrod to stop thought patters in his mind which enable him inert. The liquid in the portion of the ear which is the equilibrium can be shaken around causing dizziness but fixit is talking about the blood in the brain being shaken and that would cause one to faint but Juggernaut doesn't even need blood to survive he is sustained by magic. So through all my rabling and incoherent thoughts I'm trying to say that physical force cannot K.O. Juggernaut
that was from another discussion as to why juggernaut can be jarred stunned or dazed, but cannot be knocked out by physical force. you can upset the liquids in the inner ear (the equiliberium) but unless you are a telepath, and telepathically assault his mind (which onslaught is) you can never render him unconscious.
Dude whateve. I'am a Hulk fan, your a Juggernaut fan. You have evidence that says that Juggernaut is the biggest bad a**. I and plenty of other people posting here think that Hulk is the bad a*** in the situation. Juggernaut is a tough cookie I give you that, but my money is on The Hulk in a death match intelligent Hulk. I believe that their is a way that with the smarts of Bruce Banner and the brute stregth of The Incredible Hulk, Juggernaut would lose. I think their is a reason why they don't being the 2 together very often, because they would have to declare one or the other a winner. I just posted a few times when Juggernaut got the stuffing beat out of him, and I believe that Intelligent Hulk could take him, and I"am gonna stay with that.
Hulk's track record with Juggernaut has been pretty good. The matchs have had interuptions like always. I just believe that The Hulk is better then Juggernaut. Thats just my opnion. You think Juggy is better then Hulk, even though I"ve given proff that, Juggy has been rendered unconcious with physical force, and you won't agree, so the converstation is again stalemated, unless I can dig up more and more evidence to debate my point. Point being The Hulk can kick Juggernauts ass.
man how can you still argue juggernaught fan, hulk is STRONGER, i wnat to post something but then i read what never wright, or superdarryl, they already said EVERYTHING, hulk WINS. and Juggernaught being imortal yeah sure he his keep beliving on that one.
if you do not believe in the proof that the comic issue of onslaught beating the crap out of juggernaut shows becoz you reason out to politics, then i suggest you don't use any other comic issues to back up your f*cking claims becoz they can also be regarded as polititcs!!!! juggernaut can survive a nuclear blast point blank? proof please... with the durability of juggernaut i have no questions, but if you want to compare the strength of juggy with that of the hulk please state a few facts of feats juggy did to demonstrate his strength. hulk lifted a 150 billion mountain, could you sight an example where juggy has demonstrated this amount of strength?
Ok this is a good point to argue. Juggernaut has a fight with the Thing protecting the Beyonder, now The Thing has gotten stomped by The Hulk plenty of times. But in this issue The Thing gets stomped by Juggernaut.
This issue The Thing fights with 99 supervillans and kicks all their buts except for one Juggernaut. The reason thing has kicked everyones butt if because he signed a pact with Mephisto to increase his strength 100 fold in exchange for his soul. And Thing agrees, so thing fights off 98 percent of the villans, then Juggernaut comes along, now when Juggy comes along, Now something interesting happens Mephisto sees that the Thing is going to kick Juggernauts butt, so what does he do he rips up the contract and has Thing degraded back to normal strength, now of couse Thing is stomped in 3 blows, knocked unconcious, but what if Mephisto did not rip the contract and let Juggy duke it out with Thing. I think Thing may have made a good match for Juggernaut with his strength increased 100 fold. Thats awesome. Now the Hulk basically can increase his stength 100 fold without any stupid contracts, so I think that The Hulk could beat the living day lights out of Juggernaut if he was enraged enough.
Juggernaut has been stopped before with physical force and can be stopped again with physical force. The Hulk would annihilate him, like I said knocking him into a coma, and Juggernaut has been in a coma before with the X-men examining him.
Another point I wanted to add on why Hulk would win in a toe-to-toe match up.
that's the stupidest thing i've ever heard. when has hulk ever shown to increase his strength 100 fold? juggernaut has.......... just ask thor when he fought him in vol. 2, #17. hulk isn't as strong as that last pathetic post was trying to make him. thing got rocked at his base level strength. juggernaut has been stopped 1 time in all of history by something on a physical level. before he regained momentum the ground he was standing on collapsed. that's the only thing EVER by physical means. that was thor's godforce. not hulk not anybody else has and can stop juggernaut. you also said that thing has gotten stomped by hulk before. but thing has also stood toe-to-toe several times on his own. until hulk has been sufficiently raged enough to take him down. so what's yur point???? you are still rambling basically bout nothing. you havn't said anything new. juggernaut has only been "knocked into a coma before" by onslaught. whom may, or may not have used psionics. nothing is definate. because IT WASN'T SHOWN. using psionics would also explain why juggernaut blinked in and out of consciousness all through the crossover for no apparent reason. he also had a mental block put in place. that would support the theory that psionics were used.
and i already stated a feat of physical strength by juggernaut, in a weakened state, he supported the weight of a building. a severely weakened state. it's not 150 billion ton's but it is alot of weight. juggernaut was so strong he ripped through dimensional barriers. as far as i'm aware hulks punching power has never reached a level of that magnitude. could you please state anywhere that he has reached that level of power?????? i can tell you, it hasn't happened. not now not ever. if dimensional barriers cannot stop his fists, i doubt hulks skull would be able too. get the point? just thought i would post like a few of you, for a moment.
i do however agree that the intelligent hulks stand more of a chance rather than the "dumb" hulks. one because intelligence in the marvel universe has more often than not proven to be superior to most any type of power there is. look at dooms accomplishments. he has stolen the power of silver surfer, and a watcher. the ultimate nullifier, is another invention that rivals any kind of power. said to be able to wipe even galactus from existence. thanos too with intelligence has became the ultimate being. i believe that smart hulk can think, and win against juggernaut, but i don't get what part you people don't understand about complete physical invulnerability. as long as they come in swingin, they are eventually going to be too fatigued, and to hurt to continue a fight with juggernaut. even if it takes all year to do so. eventually any incarnation of hulk (except possibly war, whom could be sustained by his unilimited amounts of energy) would have to stop and eat/drink, and rest at some point. i'm sure an intelligent hulk could concieve of something similar to what nimrod did, but in straight up physical confrontation, i think juggernaut would win. nobody has to agree with me however. nobody will ever know for certain. atleast until marvel say's one way or the other. oh, plus i thought this should be mentioned. twice in hulks history he has been hurt by spiderman. somebody who failed to even give juggernaut notice. until he annoyed him. spiderman as rescently as 2000 has did this, so i dont' want to hear anything about hulk being in his early years, or being a developing character.
You have massive problems with paragraphs, honestly, grammar is appreciated on forums. I miss every post of yours bar a few, just because they look to damn long, and are harder to read.
yes, i'm not sure exactly which issue off hand where he supports the building before letting it collapse (after everybody was out), but it was in the exiles crossover *which is why he was losing his power, he was in another universe all together* i'm pretty sure it was issue #3. as for him punching holes in dimensional barriers, it was in uncanny x-men issue #369. so they ARE facts. you are just trying to dispute them, thinking i might be making them up. go read it for yourself.
yea, when i am posting i do type pretty fast, i can exceed 120 words a minute. i make quite a few mistakes, i can delete most, but some just slip past my view.
Where? Because on the other messageboard I participate on the Colossus fans say Class 100.
Incorrect, JF. Would you like me to list each and every one of their battles along with each and every issue number? Say the word.
Regarding your Hulk vs. Thor for 1 hour opinion, again: where? What issue?
Uncanny X-Men #183. Remember this?
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LoL, were you underneath the rubble with him? He reverts to human form when he is unconscious. He was not unconscious after he fought Juggernaut. Goodness!
He lifted it, period. You cannot hold a 50lb barbell in your hand PERFECTLY STILL for 20 seconds. Hulk held that for what I can easily estimate to be at least FIFTEEN MINUTES. It moved up, it moved down. He lifted it.
Heh, a dimensional barrier is not solid, JF. If one vibrates quickly enough on can access other dimensions. *sigh* Superman did the same thing in the DC 1,000,000 crossover.
Hulk still punched Onslaught so hard that it blew open his armor, and - again - the ENTIRE. MARVEL. UNIVERSE. who participated could not dent it.
That's power, and more than Juggernaut possesses.
Juggernaut supporting a building is nothing. Gladiator lifted the Baxter Building, and I ***THINK**** Hercules once lifted Manhattan.
"it could have been an implanted memory. but since it wasn't shown all we can do is speculate. "
Man JF u sound like a fanboy....ur trying too hard...Onslought raped Juggy, Hulk cracked his armour...end of argument...150 billion ton mountain, hulk lifted it....War hulk: potentially limitless strength...just like any other green manifestation of the hulk, they all have potentially limitless strength, apoc did not increase his physical strength, he and any green hulk could potentially knock juggy into space, juggy is strong but not that strong...but he is clearly ur favorite character.
Pardon...in the interest of being accurate, Hercules actually dragged Manhattan. For some reason I swear I saw Manhattan tilted upward in the air back in the 80's...oh well.
that was just the cover of colossus, and juggernaut. he was knocked unconscious. juggernaut walked away, the a few minutes later they dug him out of the rubble. secondly the other fight both colossus and storm are shown limp at his hands. he was unconscious. in that entire issue colossus did not put juggernaut on his ass. another thing, go ahead and list every issue they fought in. sum up each one. be my guest. colossus was stated at being in 110 level strength at maturity. which he never reached in main stream marvel. but still ripping through barriers is something that even hulk has never done. no matter how hard he hits. it still never ripped through it's "instability" as you would say. so regardless hulk has never been at this strength level. also thor stated in vol. 2 #17, that juggernaut's strength had swelled 100 fold. i never said that hulk couldn't match juggernaut in strength. nor did i say he could not surpass it. it's likely, but i just believe standing at his base level strength, juggernaut is stronger. i don't get what you people are still arguing about it. hulk has never shown to be "superior" to juggernaut in any previous battle. except war. also, please read the mini series for the 1000 and first time. apocalypse implants allowed him to harness and control 2 universe worth of energy. it is a fact. he DID increase his strength. maybe i do sound like a fan boy, but atleast i present some facts. the only thing you people say is "whatever" or "proof" when i already gave you some. where is your proof that hulk is stronger. he has his own series, and has had more time to show his feats of strength where juggernaut occasionally makes an appearance here and there.
Dude sharpen up on your reading comprehension. I didn't say that The Hulk strength was increased 100 fold, I said that The Thing strength was increased 100 fold by Mephisto.
And Don't even mention The Thing being able to beat Hulk's a**. It may have happened with the help of the Fantastic Four, or with the help of other superheros, but the Thing does not stand toe-to-toe with The Hulk and trade blows without getting has a** handed to him. Hulk smashes the competition with ground breaking blows. Juggernaut is not God, I wish Onslaught would have killed his sorry a**.So you couldn't say he was so good, and invunerable, cause he's not. Rember that Hulk deastroyed Onslaughts armor with several blows. Compared to Juggernaut when Juggernaut punchs Onslaught, he gots knocked all the way to NY from Canade and comatosed. I got nothing more to say, other than The Hulk is a bigger bad a** then Juggernaut, and I'am standin one that note.
Dimensional "barriers" are not TANGIBLE. Do you know anything about physics? A nexus is not TANGIBLE.
Hulk lifted 150 billion tons, is referenced as "Marvel's/Earth's Mightiest Mortal," cracked a shell through Onslaught's armor, had all of his body tissue melted away by vector, can overtake ICBM's in orbit, can survive reentry into the atmosphere, and is the strongest non-celestial being there is.
Call it what you like.
"Likely?" Nobody EVER mentions Juggernaut when discussing strength. They mention HULK and THOR.
Never referenced you as a fan boy, and never will. Where are your facts? Ultimate Colossus being Class 110 (have never heard of it). Where is the proof? Juggernaut is immortal. Where is the proof? You say "Juggernaut 'punched' through a dimensional barrier." Flash vibrates through them. That is not as big a feat as you are making it out to be.
On the cover of Secret Wars #4? His strength is virtually limitless considering the angrier he gets the stronger he gets? We have listed two feats that nobody else in Marvel has done - 150 billion TONS, and, again, none of the combined powerhouses in Marvel could dink Onslaught's armor. Hulk destroyed it.
Blah, will let you debate someone else. All debated out on this subject
Yeah this Hulk, Juggy thing is out of control. If Juggernaut can be knocked out with physical force then the hulk can definitly knock him unconcious. I wish the writers would go ahead and let The Hulk twist Juggernauts shit and call it a day. We all know that The Hulk is the most powerful hero and that he does stuff that knowone else can do, including Juggernaut, and that enraged out of control he damage's anybody in his path. Proven over and over, time and time again. I see know reason to fight for Juggernaut even though he is a tough cool character, The Hulk can best him in a fight, because Juggernaut can lose, it's not in his vocabulary, but it's a comic reality.
"Now the Hulk basically can increase his stength 100 fold without any stupid contracts, so I think that The Hulk could beat the living day lights out of Juggernaut if he was enraged enough." --------------------------------- you said you didn't say hulk couldn't increase his strength 100 fold, yet here you said it. explain that one.
And Don't even mention The Thing being able to beat Hulk's a**. It may have happened with the help of the Fantastic Four, or with the help of other superheros, but the Thing does not stand toe-to-toe with The Hulk and trade blows without getting has a** handed to him. Hulk smashes the competition with ground breaking blows. Juggernaut is not God, I wish Onslaught would have killed his sorry a**.So you couldn't say he was so good, and invunerable, cause he's not. Rember that Hulk deastroyed Onslaughts armor with several blows. Compared to Juggernaut when Juggernaut punchs Onslaught, he gots knocked all the way to NY from Canade and comatosed. I got nothing more to say, other than The Hulk is a bigger bad a** then Juggernaut, and I'am standin one that note
thing usually doesn't stand a chance until hulk is sufficiently raged you forgot that part............. thing is a better fighter, and usually stands with that alone until hulks strength proves too much. even without the fantastic four.
Yeah this Hulk, Juggy thing is out of control. If Juggernaut can be knocked out with physical force then the hulk can definitly knock him unconcious. I wish the writers would go ahead and let The Hulk twist Juggernauts shit and call it a day. We all know that The Hulk is the most powerful hero and that he does stuff that knowone else can do, including Juggernaut, and that enraged out of control he damage's anybody in his path. Proven over and over, time and time again. I see know reason to fight for Juggernaut even though he is a tough cool character, The Hulk can best him in a fight, because Juggernaut can lose, it's not in his vocabulary, but it's a comic reality
you are right, hulk is the most powerful hero. juggernauts a villain. until onslaught, nobody had knocked juggernaut out by physical force. even that isn't iron clad, because it wasn't shown. geesh. also, hulk can lose too. you presented no evidence what so ever in your post. you people are falling apart. except never, whom atleast debates somewhat.
Never
Grammaton Cleric
Registered: Jan 2004
Location: United States
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that was just the cover of colossus, and juggernaut. he was knocked unconscious.
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He reverts to human form when unconscious. That is fact. Because they dug him out does not mean he was unconscious.
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in that entire issue colossus did not put juggernaut on his ass.
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LoL, yes he DID. He TACKLED him, for one. Would you like page numbers?
oh you mean when he tackled him when juggernaut was walking away. ok i get ya. not by slugging it out with him. i think you failed to mention that. i already told you that colossus was knocked unconscious and in steel form. i'll get you a pick since you are clinging so desperately. here you go....................
but still ripping through barriers is something that even hulk has never done.
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Dimensional "barriers" are not TANGIBLE. Do you know anything about physics? A nexus is not TANGIBLE.
but even still hulks physical strength hasn't been able to do what juggernaut did do. already. what's your point.
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hulk has never shown to be "superior" to juggernaut in any previous battle. except war.
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Hulk lifted 150 billion tons, is referenced as "Marvel's/Earth's Mightiest Mortal," cracked a shell through Onslaught's armor, had all of his body tissue melted away by vector, can overtake ICBM's in orbit, can survive reentry into the atmosphere, and is the strongest non-celestial being there is.
you are misinterpreting what i said. i said hulk has never shown to be superior in thier battles. as far as i'm aware, that's not a hulk/juggernaut battle.
i never said that hulk couldn't match juggernaut in strength. nor did i say he could not surpass it. it's likely,
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"Likely?" Nobody EVER mentions Juggernaut when discussing strength. They mention HULK and THOR.
that's funny. marvel directly compares hulks strength to juggernaut and vice versa. must not be doing much readin then have you?????
maybe i do sound like a fan boy, but atleast i present some facts.
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Never referenced you as a fan boy, and never will. Where are your facts? Ultimate Colossus being Class 110 (have never heard of it). Where is the proof? Juggernaut is immortal. Where is the proof? You say "Juggernaut 'punched' through a dimensional barrier." Flash vibrates through them. That is not as big a feat as you are making it out to be.
one thing should be mentioned. dc characters do many many things that marvel characters can't do. they operate much higher than marvel does. clearly punching somebody 1 million miles is kinda rediculous. even marvel say's they "depower" thier characters so they have are more life like. so that isn't legitimate. if i had a link to colossus's 110 ton strength level i'd show you. but that doesnt mean it's not true. about juggernaut being immortal, i'm sure something could kill him. not hulk though. the celestial's melted the destroyer down to slag, so yea, everything has limits. but, hulk cannot test the limits of juggernaut's "immortality". even the curse that makes juggernaut say's FOREVER more a human juggernaut. forever more pretty much means forever which would imply immortality.
where is your proof that hulk is stronger.
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"On the cover of Secret Wars #4? His strength is virtually limitless considering the angrier he gets the stronger he gets? We have listed two feats that nobody else in Marvel has done - 150 billion TONS, and, again, none of the combined powerhouses in Marvel could dink Onslaught's armor. Hulk destroyed it."
again onlsaught *sigh*. i already stated, hulk has his own comics. he has had a chance to prove his strength where juggernaut makes cameo's in everybody else's books. who knows what could happen in the future.
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Apr 22nd, 2004 06:14 AM
