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Who Thinks Revolutions Was Useless !!!
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yohji74
Wutevas bros...

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

Metamorph -- you want plot holes? how about a few to start off with and more to come? and pls try to base your theories on facts and circumstances the movies actually provided us with. too many theories i read on this forum are untenable simply b/c they don't provide realisitic assumptions or are not based on anything the movies suggested or showed.

1) who is neo really? we all know the function of the One, but how does the One become the One and more importantly, who chooses the One? why was Neo chosen to become the One?
2) is Neo dead? this should be a yes or no answer, not maybe otherwise it's a plot hole...
3) what is the function, role and pupose of Sati and how is she able to do the things she does?
4) although destroying the sentinels at the end of M2 put Neo in a physical coma in the real world, how did he end up at Mobil, a place where no real human has ever gone?
5) is the architect the RSI (residual self image) of the head machine? at the end of the movie, the architect states that he will keep his word on freeing the humans, but neo made the 'peace pact' with the head machine, not the architect. what does 'keeping his word' mean in this context?
6) explain why smith came into the real world through bane in M2 and yet didn't make any attempt to come through every other person plugged into the Matrix (esp. after he assimilated everyone) in order to rule both worlds. i mean, all he had to do was have 50 to 100 of his clones come into the real world while he was fighting neo and he would have survived - at least in the real world

Old Post Nov 7th, 2003 12:05 AM
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JediHDM
Jedi of the Matrix

Gender: Male
Location: United States

1) the one is randomly chosen when the buffer for disbelief reaches its peak, and the ONE code is placed in the next human grown. Neo is human.
2) I cannot answer that definitively, because it is still debated. Do i believe Neo is still alive, yes. Do others, no.
3) Sati has no function, no purpose, which is why she was to be deleted, and why Rama-kandra sold the termination code for the Oracle's shell to the Merovingian, so that his daughter may live. She is able to do what she does because, "she can". THat is the easiest way to explain it. She has no purpose, thus, she has no parameters inhibiting her abilities, so, she can do whatever.
4) Neo now has a connection to the Source, like any program, so he was, literally, supposed to be dead, however, the Merov placed him there so he couldn't cause Merov any more trouble. If you are asking did he just wake up there, with nothing but the Source putting him there, i am not sure if that is true or not, but, it is possible.
5) No. The Architect no longer has to "balance out the equation", but he is the seeming "God" of the matrix. thus, he controls, in a way, the prophecy, as the Oracle does as well...the deus ex machina does not need a RSI in the matrix, because it is ruled by Architect and Oracle, amn and woman, Yin and Yang, Human and Machine. 'keeping his word' means that the Architect will not interfere with humans freeing other humans.
6) Smith's domain is the Matrix. while he can leave if he takes over another human already freed, i do not think he would have the ability to leave the matrix on his own without free will...Smith still has a purpose, thus, i do not think he has a choice in the matter as much as Neo or Michael do.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2003 12:22 AM
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Metamorphisis
Mr Wizard

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quote:
Originally posted by yohji74
Metamorph -- you want plot holes? how about a few to start off with and more to come? and pls try to base your theories on facts and circumstances the movies actually provided us with. too many theories i read on this forum are untenable simply b/c they don't provide realisitic assumptions or are not based on anything the movies suggested or showed.


Follow this carefully

quote:
1) who is neo really? we all know the function of the One, but how does the One become the One and more importantly, who chooses the One? why was Neo chosen to become the One?

Neo is just a man. He was subconciously given a choice to believe in the programming of the matrix or not. His subconscious chose not to. The tramatic experience of his death by Smith in M1 brought this choice out front, because by rejecting the programming the program cannot kill the mind. Neo chose himself as the one by a simple mathmatical probability of anti-conforitism and a nature to question authority.

quote:
2) is Neo dead? this should be a yes or no answer, not maybe otherwise it's a plot hole...

Yes. The nueral overload that the machines gave him electrocuted him with his own nueral network. This is why you see him jolt back and scream in agony as light spills forth from his mouth. Then he is pulled off in a manner reminecent of a viking funeral.

quote:
3) what is the function, role and pupose of Sati and how is she able to do the things she does?

Sati's function is to introduce us to the idea that the machines can feel, too. Her programming has no purpose, but to define one would be to define beauty. Thus the reason she made a beautiful sunrise. She is able to manipulate things in much the same manner the Mero manipulated the cake, and is given as a very powerful program because her parents were SYSTEM programs, not Matrix programs.

quote:
4) although destroying the sentinels at the end of M2 put Neo in a physical coma in the real world, how did he end up at Mobil, a place where no real human has ever gone?

The same way he was able to see the machines after he was blinded. The same way the sentinals communicate with the machine city and recieve their orders. All metal acts as an antennae, and Neo, haveing touched the source and gain "root" access if you will, was able to tap into the entire computer network, not just the matrix. Mobile Ave is not inside the matrix, and when he used his power to shut the sentinals down he inadvertently connected to the machine world in a manner he didn't know possible, and his only exit would be through the matrix itself. I have written about this in greater detail, and if you know anything about computer technology with a level of knowledge past the MCSE and CCNA certifacations you could have put that together on your own.

quote:
5) is the architect the RSI (residual self image) of the head machine? at the end of the movie, the architect states that he will keep his word on freeing the humans, but neo made the 'peace pact' with the head machine, not the architect. what does 'keeping his word' mean in this context?

No, the architect is not the head of the machines, he is the head of the Matrix, and has his own intellect. The peace pact for Zion was made with the head machine, the Oracle asked for the Architects promis to release the other humans. She's the one who asked if she had the architects word, and this is because she understood that the humans would still want to free those enslaved.
quote:
6) explain why smith came into the real world through bane in M2 and yet didn't make any attempt to come through every other person plugged into the Matrix (esp. after he assimilated everyone) in order to rule both worlds. i mean, all he had to do was have 50 to 100 of his clones come into the real world while he was fighting neo and he would have survived - at least in the real world
First, we don't know that he didn't try to assimulate others, they did not show those details. Second, after Bane, the only other ship to enter broadcast depth (gee there's the wireless thing again) was the Neb, and if you remember Smith did try to assimulate Morpheus. So, if all the other ships were preparing to fight the machines in the real world, and the only ship to enter broadcast depth was the Neb (and later the logos and the one that was destroyed -- with their efforts to help the Neb), then Smith would not have had the opportunity to take over anyone else. By the time he took over EVERYTHING, Neo was the only one entering the matrix.

So, please explain where the plot holes are?


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2003 12:37 AM
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snafupen
audio guru

Gender: Male
Location: East Lansing, Michigan

Neo died because he needed to become a rainbow. And that's that. Nobody is going to tell me otherwise. Please PM me if you have any questions about my "theory".


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2003 12:46 AM
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JediHDM
Jedi of the Matrix

Gender: Male
Location: United States

meta> we really do not disagree, except on the part of Neo being alive or dead, but it depends on the way you look at it. Is Neo going to get up and go to Zion, no. However, he IS still alive. And Neo did not choose to be the one, he already had the code. He had to choose to accept the fact that he had the code.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2003 01:09 AM
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vizman
Junior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

This movie was for two class of people: the intellectual's and the action crowd. The intellectuals have their supportive theories and the bang-em-up crowd have their guns and bullets and special effects.

for those of us that enjoy CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT and some form of CLOSURE. no dice.

some weak characters in M3
1. Persephone - nothing but a vixen
2. Merovigian - a french weeni with with henchmen
3. Morpheus - a peripheral character in M3. Obviously, he got over THE PROPHESY pretty easily. That was a plot hole in his character.
4. Ghost - He had some air-time, but we didn't get any real dialogue from him that meant much.
5. Seraph. Lost potential there. The 'Angel' never showed his true potential.
6. The Twins. So they died in M2?? They were a new innovation in M2. Sorrily, no such innovation in any major characters in M3.

We are allowed to like or dislike a movie. fair enough. But to say t his was the BEST possible ending. That belies a desperation to BELIEVE this movie was great.
... as a matter of fact, the characters didn't matter in this movie - it was all about resolution.

Old Post Nov 7th, 2003 01:45 AM
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Ushgarak
Paladin

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Co-Admin

I do agree that the character focus here was lacking compared to the earlier ones.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2003 01:47 AM
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vvvrulz
The Last Scorpion

Gender: Male
Location: New Zealand

Warning Who Thinks Revolutions Was Useless !!!

I thought this movie was absolutely pathetic !!!
Everything about this movie just bombed, theyve made the original look really bad. It only confirms that these useless sequels werent meant to be...

Anyone share my thoughts?

And by the way, im no matrix hater, its my alltime fav. (the original).


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2003 05:36 AM
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Tired-Hiker
El Bastardo

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Location: Sailing the seas of cheese.

I thought reloaded sucked when I first saw it but I watched it again and I loved it. Do you think Revo is that type of movie? Do you maybe just need to see it again to understand it better?


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2003 05:43 AM
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DARKVIRUS
Senior Member

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Location: United States

Snafupen: my god i think you are right!

Viz: You are without a doubt the best dam member going right now.

You know what i noticed about some of these answers before, they did'nt listen to the person when they asked for no mumbo-jumbo and said to please keep it to fact.

The neural overload...dude did you see a special edition where they showed the convo between dues ex machina and neo?...cuz i sure as hell would like to see it.

Jedi: the man simply asked you to go on facts and circumstances the movie provided us...when you say "i dont think" you already strayed off that path.


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After the failure that was "the matrix revolutions" it is always good to know you CAN count on somethings to deliver.
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Old Post Nov 7th, 2003 05:47 AM
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saxmanuw
Junior Member

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Location: United States

Good post Vizman....

I don't even consider it a film for "intellectuals" because I loved thinking about all the possibilites at the end of Reloaded, as did all of my friends. But we were SEVERELY disappointed at not only the ending but the writing of the entire movie. People on this board seem to come up with their own theories about things and then pretend like it's common knowledge and that anyone who saw the movie would come to the same conclusion. This is not only ridiculous, but also the sign of a terribly flawed film. One should not have to fill in the gaps that the writers screw up. It's simply BAD WRITING. The COMPLETE LACK of Morpheus being of any importance whatsoever in the last movie is an excellent example. He was arguably the most dynamic and interesting character, and so what happens? He becomes a co-pilot for Niobe. There are a number of other examples that you pointed out, and it's extremely frustating to see such a great series swirl down the toilet. Also, most of Meta's answers to the plot holes posed to him were simply him speculating. That my friend, is not evidence that a plot hole isn't there. It's evidence that you've come up with your own FILLING for the plot hole.
"His subconscious chose not to. The tramatic experience of his death by Smith in M1 brought this choice out front, because by rejecting the programming the program cannot kill the mind." Please show me where this is explained in the movies.
" have written about this in greater detail, and if you know anything about computer technology with a level of knowledge past the MCSE and CCNA certifacations you could have put that together on your own."
This is frickin hilarious. So now you need to be a computer nerd and have MCSE certifications to enjoy this movie? That doesn't seem wrong to you??????? I love how you come off sounding all high and mighty about that though, way to sound like a complete snob.
Look, I understand that some people liked this movie. Fine, whatever. But don't tell me that this movie answered all those questions convincingly because it did NOT. You filling in answers does not a movie make, and thats exactly what you're doing in most cases.

Old Post Nov 7th, 2003 05:47 AM
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DARKVIRUS
Senior Member

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Location: United States

Saxman you are speaking my language dam these guys are good!....Forgive my frustration and not being able to come across the way i have wanted to because they have been beating me up with the "stupid" stick and i have been tryin to fend them off but, you guys are awesome!. These are things that I have thought about in the last few days and im so glad you guys layed it on the table.

Great job guys!


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After the failure that was "the matrix revolutions" it is always good to know you CAN count on somethings to deliver.
One trilogy to rule them all!

Old Post Nov 7th, 2003 05:52 AM
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gobstopper
utter nutter

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Location: Hobart, Australia

I loved it, it was brilliant.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2003 06:04 AM
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Tired-Hiker
El Bastardo

Gender: Male
Location: Sailing the seas of cheese.

I'm going to go see it on Movie Monday.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2003 06:06 AM
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vvvrulz
The Last Scorpion

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It kinda depends on how you look at it, as a movie its fine, but compared to the brilliance of the original, its nowhere near there.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2003 09:10 AM
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BackFire
Blood. It's nature's lube

Gender: Male
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I thought Reloaded was useless, The Matrix should have ended after the first film.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2003 10:02 AM
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Kes
Philie

Gender: Female
Location: Lisbon, Portugal

I left the theater and said wow. But then I started thinking about it and was very disappointed. It fails in many levels.
To much CGI just like Reloaded but these looks a bit more fake. It doesnt have the boring dialogs Reloaded has and the action isnt over done lengh wise but it doesnt leave has much of an impression. And I understood the movie. Its quite simple actually.
To bad they never really explain what Persephone really is and Mero for that matter. To bad they werent used more. Mero looked really cool big grin
And also Seraph [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Angel withou wings??blink
In the end the Club Hell scene (inside with Mero) and Zion fight was the best.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2003 10:13 AM
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Kes
Philie

Gender: Female
Location: Lisbon, Portugal

Also they should have had some flashbacks to remind us of how Reloaded ended.
Guess this 1 needed a strong beggining like The Matrix and Reloaded have.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2003 10:15 AM
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BackFire
Blood. It's nature's lube

Gender: Male
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I'm glad to hear they don't have flashbacks for Matrix: Retarded, I certainly don't want to relive that crapfest anytime soon. wink


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2003 10:17 AM
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Kes
Philie

Gender: Female
Location: Lisbon, Portugal

Well they should have cos Revolutions starts kinda out of the blue. It could have been Trinity dreaming just a little from the end would have been enough.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2003 10:31 AM
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