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The Indian Connection(revolutions)
Started by: anomaly12

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lemon
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you are so right. my bad. damn dyslexia! I switched the a and i!

Old Post Nov 10th, 2003 09:22 PM
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JediHDM
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yeah, i did it the first time i saw it too...its cool...oh, and, Welcome


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Old Post Nov 10th, 2003 09:33 PM
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anomaly12
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guys, if i've not seriously messed up indian mythology, i think kamala is not an incarnation of kali OR lakshmi.Kamala is derived from the hindi world kamal which means lotus.This means that kamala would also mean lotus. Lotus can be connected to goddess saraswati as it is her carrier or something. Saraswati is the goddess of knowledge and education(and also music and other arts). I STILL feel the name is ramachandra, not rama kandra.And about sati, the name's meaning doesnt seem to have any significance to the movie.Sati used to be a practice in india with cases reported till the middle of last century.In this practice any woman whose husband dies must burn herself with his dead body.By doing this the woman would become sati. i can find no connection between this and the movie.

Old Post Nov 11th, 2003 02:28 PM
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anomaly12
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Plus i wanted to add, the indian press is expressing its embarassment over the fact that of all names, sati was chosen.They feel it is an attempt to jab at indian tradition. and i hope everyone here knows karma means job or purpose.

Old Post Nov 11th, 2003 02:31 PM
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JediHDM
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anomaly> this is DIRECTLY off the matrix website, changed in no way.

The Matrix: Revolutions (2003) ... Rama-Kandra
The Matrix: Reloaded (2003) ... Rama-Kandra


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Old Post Nov 11th, 2003 06:19 PM
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jaderaven
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quote:
Originally posted by anomaly12
guys, if i've not seriously messed up indian mythology, i think kamala is not an incarnation of kali OR lakshmi.Kamala is derived from the hindi world kamal which means lotus.This means that kamala would also mean lotus. Lotus can be connected to goddess saraswati as it is her carrier or something. Saraswati is the goddess of knowledge and education(and also music and other arts). I STILL feel the name is ramachandra, not rama kandra.And about sati, the name's meaning doesnt seem to have any significance to the movie.Sati used to be a practice in india with cases reported till the middle of last century.In this practice any woman whose husband dies must burn herself with his dead body.By doing this the woman would become sati. i can find no connection between this and the movie.


Just a thought... in Buddhist tradition the word sati is taken just a bit of a step further beyond the hindi rite or ritual in which a widow imolates herself... It is the mindset of the widow that defines sati for a buddhist. And to a buddhist the mindset is one of a very focused mind that is following ones (preceived) path or purpose in devotion (to ones husband) keeping in mind that a woman who has lost her husband is thought to have no purpose... and is even thought of as dangerous in indian society because of her unbridled sexual energy. So to simplify... Sati is the conscious focusing of ones mind to find purpose beyond the need for purpose or existance of purpose. So to me Sati (the little girl) is a representing a program that has no purpose but in fact does not need to have purpose to exist.

I might be wrong about all that and it may need some more thought... any other ideas?

Old Post Nov 11th, 2003 10:24 PM
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Sifer

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Just incase you guys wanted to know:

Rama-Kandra: Power Plant Systems Manager for Recycling Operations
Kamala: Interactive Software Programmer


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Old Post Nov 11th, 2003 10:34 PM
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MC Mike
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Old Post Nov 11th, 2003 10:36 PM
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The Unknown
Anomaly

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quote:
Originally posted by anomaly12
Plus i wanted to add, the indian press is expressing its embarassment over the fact that of all names, sati was chosen.They feel it is an attempt to jab at indian tradition. and i hope everyone here knows karma means job or purpose.



Actually, Dharma means job or purpose. Karma means that if you do your Dharma, then you will go up a level in the Varna System.


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-The Architect AKA Larry

Old Post Nov 11th, 2003 10:40 PM
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anomaly12
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correction........dharma is religion, as in something u just HAVE to do,there is no way out. Karma is wat we call job or purpose.varna can mean a LOT of things in different contexts.

Old Post Nov 12th, 2003 01:11 PM
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JediHDM
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jaderaven> interesting, thank you.


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Old Post Nov 12th, 2003 01:18 PM
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The Omega
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Sifer> Yes, that IS interesting isn’t it? wink

Jaderaven> And that was interesting info, too. About Sati. There are many religious themes hidden in the Matrix, but I do not think they should be taken at face value. For the religious among you, please, do not get the following wrong: But The One was another system of control as was the prophecy (of the second coming of The man who was born inside the Matrix). The entire religion/prophecy was a “lie”.
His purpose/karma was not set/defined to end anything, but to just partake in the resetting/incarnation of the Matrix/illusion. In Revolutions Neo is JUST a man. All the characters are shown as VERY human, after the prophecy has been shown to be nothing but another system of control.
“You never believed in the One,” Morpheus says, when Niobe offers Neo the logos.
“I still don’t. I believe in HIM.” Niobe replies.
Just as Sati had no purpose other than (as far as I can see) make thing beautiful (it would fit with the description of what her mother-program does), Revolution questions purpose and karma and fate. It’s interesting to SEE the AI-programs view their program-purpose as KARMA (but that’s another thread), as well as seeing Neo realising that he IS no way near being in control of his own fate.

The principle of dharma is closely connected with karma. Dharma literally means ‘to uphold what is correct’, what we may call today ‘morality’.
There is also dharma as ‘individual duty’, according to a person’s social and economic status in society. This could be compared to a certain extent with the Kantian idea of duty (duty for duty’s sake). Then there is general dharma which applies to society as a whole, a guide in moral and social issues.
The theory of karma was articulated early in Upanisadic times (which are usually placed from 700 bc onwards, but were possibly earlier). It concerns the causal relation between acts and their results. Causality, as The Merovingian would call it.


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Old Post Nov 12th, 2003 04:12 PM
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jaderaven
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quote:
Originally posted by JediHDM
jaderaven> interesting, thank you.


You're welcome!

As a buddhist I look at karma and dharma in the following way....

Everything is energy... energy is like water... when you break the dam water wants to find it level or balance.... karma is the force that the water exerts on the damn both before it is broken and on the damn as it flows.... dharma is WHERE the water WILL flow based on finding equilibrium and future actions. The action of breaking the dam effects the water/karma like our actions effect our karma.

another simpler way to visulize it is karma pushes us... dharma pulls us... they are two parts of the same or simular thing(s)

Old Post Nov 12th, 2003 04:13 PM
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The Omega
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You're a buddhist?
(Sticks microphone in your face) big grin
Could you enlighten me on the meaning of the LOTUS in Buddhism? I think I mix it up with it's meaning in Hinduism.

Oh, and what you view Trinity's death as necessary for Neo to reach enlightenment? Or is he bound by his emotions to return? (Not necessarily literally)?


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Old Post Nov 12th, 2003 04:21 PM
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JediHDM
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Omega> you just gave me the final part of the puzzle...everyone keeps asking about Neo's second-coming, and how they will have to make another movie about it, however, Neo IS the second coming...thus, Neo basically set up a "heaven on earth" in the matrix...and there is no need for another movie...

Jaderaven> WHAT SHE[omega] SAID!!!!


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Old Post Nov 12th, 2003 04:36 PM
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jaderaven
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quote:
Originally posted by The Omega
You're a buddhist?
(Sticks microphone in your face) big grin
Could you enlighten me on the meaning of the LOTUS in Buddhism? I think I mix it up with it's meaning in Hinduism.

Oh, and what you view Trinity's death as necessary for Neo to reach enlightenment? Or is he bound by his emotions to return? (Not necessarily literally)?


Keep in mind that I have only been buddhist for about 10 years... so much more to learn... I am not master and I don't claim to know all or even to know a little wink

The lotus is a plant that usually grows in stagnant water. Growing up from the bottom of swamps and nasty muck. It stretches forth toward the light of the sun and eventually reaches the SURFACE where it gets it first breath of REAL air and blossoms. This is analigous to human beings coming into existance and being raised in sometimes the worst of circumstances and morals... only to be attracted to the light and eventually awakening to true conciousness and having thier true selves blossom or become enlightened if you will.

As I see NEO and Trinity (not necessarily a Buddhist perspective) Neo has learned who his true self is and does not NEED to come back UNLESS he chooses to... in that case he would be a bodhisatva. As far as the necessity of Trinity's death for Neo's enlightenment.... hmmm??? let me think. If the movie were "real" and not a movie... a Buddhist would say that all actions and events were necessary for the continued evolution of spirit or continued balancing of the energy of the universe. So it was necessary for her to die. Could he have done what he did and learned what he learned without her? It is possible... but not likely. The lotus being analagous to man is rooted in the earth but it head is in the heavens. As such an enlightened being is rooted in the world of EXPERIENCE and his head is held high in the higher planes. The head (or enlightenment) could never happen without the experiences we endure to push us there (can you say karma again ) so it was necessary for him to experience all that he did with Trinity. I think one of the most important lessons he learned with her is love. The machines were lacking in the experience of spirit and love (which are closely related) Neo had to learn about these before he could see beyond his choice.

I hope this helps... lol

Last edited by jaderaven on Nov 12th, 2003 at 05:19 PM

Old Post Nov 12th, 2003 05:16 PM
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the train, man?
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I tried making some connections between the names and Hinduism. I’m not sure if these are correct but I think they’re close. Let me know what you all think.

Lord Brahma and/or Goddess Saraswati = The Oracle = Creator and/or Knowledge

Lord Shiva = The Architect = Destroyer

Lord Vishnu = Merovingian = Sustainer

Garuda = The Trainman

Goddess Lakshmi = Persephone

Parasuram(6th Avatar of Lord Vishnu) = Neo

Rama(7th Avatar of Lord Vishnu) = Rama-Kandra = Ideal King, Man
*Maybe the name is just a coincidence because this doesn't sound right

Goddess Durga, Parvati, Lalitha, Kali = Kamala = Shakti Family
*This may not be right either

Kirshna(8th Avatar of lord Vishnu) = SATI = Love/Destruction of Evil


Can't post links yet..


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Last edited by the train, man? on Nov 12th, 2003 at 08:09 PM

Old Post Nov 12th, 2003 07:47 PM
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Smitty
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My feeling is that since The Matrix was solely a screenplay not adapted from a book, the many characters, especially the Indians, possible purpose may be that of a spinoff movie.

I mean Meroviginian and Persphone could be the Tracy/Hepburn of the new millenium!

Last edited by Smitty on Nov 12th, 2003 at 09:09 PM

Old Post Nov 12th, 2003 09:04 PM
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The Unknown
Anomaly

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quote:
Originally posted by anomaly12
correction........dharma is religion, as in something u just HAVE to do,there is no way out. Karma is wat we call job or purpose.varna can mean a LOT of things in different contexts.



Karma is an idea that one's actions in life determine one's destiny and future. Dharma is the duties and rights of members of each class in traditional Hindu society.


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"The MTV Movie Awards are a systemic anomaly inherent to the programming of the Matrix. Although the transport process has altered your consciousness, you irrevocably remain human. Ergo, concordantly, vis-a-vis... You know what? I have no idea what the hell I'm saying. I just thought it would make me sound cool."
-The Architect AKA Larry

Old Post Nov 12th, 2003 10:31 PM
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Sifer

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Then Karma is very similar to Metaphysics smile As it concerns the belief that one can change the future through the choices what he/her makes smile


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Old Post Nov 13th, 2003 12:43 AM
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