KillerMovies - Movies That Matter!

REGISTER HERE TO JOIN IN! - It's easy and it's free!
Home » Movie Franchises » More Movie Forums » The Matrix Movies » Ascertain the fate of The One

Ascertain the fate of The One
Started by: The Omega

Forum Jump:
Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (10): « First ... « 2 3 [4] 5 6 » ... Last »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread
mook
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: United Kingdom

omega>"After doing some INTENSIVE study on the subject I conclude the following: Neo’s “died” three times now. At the end of M1, of Reloaded and at the end of Revolutions."

he dies in M1 but i dont think he dies at the end of M2 - he is just in a coma. then he dies At the end of M3 (self-sacrifice; he lets smith stick his hand in him knowing it will destroy them both)

however is he completely dead or is this correct
omega>"(neo) would remain on the magical island until he would once again be needed"
- is this why in the oracle/sati conversation it is said they "might someday see him again"?

i think neo is essentially DEAD!
but may have been taken to a different place/higher plane by the machines which would explain the references to Buddhism/Arthur legend etc.

addition: When Neo dies(?), the machine mouth says "It is done." Those are Jesus' last words. English translation, anyway. so perhaps he is dead? (since he represents jesus)

Old Post Nov 24th, 2003 06:29 PM
mook is currently offline Click here to Send mook a Private Message Find more posts by mook Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
The Omega
Z10N0101

Gender: Female
Location: Denmark

Mook> It’s a gross over-simplification to ONLY look for Christian references. The Deus ex Machina says “it is done”, not Neo. So that does in NO way prove whether Neo is dead or not.
Neo bears resemblances to the Greek prometheus, to Buddha (or other enlightened individuals), to Mohammed the Prophet, king Arthur and just about every “cult-hero” you can think of from myths and legends.
Neo was supposed to die when he stopped the sentinels. He just wasn’t READY for it yet.
The reference to Jesus dying and his resurrection you already have in M1. Neo is, according to Morpheus and co. the “second coming” of the One, and his death and resurrection at the end of M1 is right there.
Neo’s “death” at the end of revolutions is far more cryptic. First of all, he could not bring peace, without Trinity dying. That is giving up the chains of mortal life, what keeps us in the wheel of reincarnation according to Hindi/Buddhist myths.

Neo is not on any magical island. Wrong reference. Arthur was sailed off to a magical island for healing, and would stay at Avalon until he was once again needed. After his death, civil war breaks out in Britain. So saying Neo represents Jesus is a terrible over-simplification.
Neo’s death is more akin to the Death of Arthur and reaching an transcended state of being, which is Buddhist.


__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."


"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."

Last edited by The Omega on Nov 27th, 2003 at 03:33 AM

Old Post Nov 24th, 2003 07:33 PM
The Omega is currently offline Click here to Send The Omega a Private Message Find more posts by The Omega Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
mook
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: United Kingdom

Omega>The reference to Jesus dying and his resurrection you already have in M1. Neo is, according to Morpheus and co. the “second coming” of the One, and his death and resurrection at the end of M1 is right there.Neo’s “death” at the end of revolutions is far more cryptic. First of all, he could not bring peace, without Trinity dying. That is giving up the chains of mortal life, what keeps us in the wheel of reincarnation according to Hindi/Buddhist myths.


In M1 Keanu is a man - 'thomas a anderson'. at the end he realises he is the one.
In M2 he is the one but still human: "he is..only human"; "hes just a man".
At the end of M2 he uses his 'one powers' outside of the matrix- so he is now more than a man outside 'the matrix'
In M3 there is a plaque on the Oracles bench saying 'in memory of Thomas.a.Anderson'. this means that the 'man' side of neo is dead.

however is the 'one side' of him or some 'other part' of him still alive?
Perhaps:
Oracle says 'we might see him again'
there is the reference to Arthur legend- taken away to be healed
Buddhism reference - transcending to a higher plane.


Omega> It’s a gross over-simplification to ONLY look for Christian references.
i absolutely agree, thats why i read the stuff about myths,Buddhism etc

Omega> The Deus ex Machina says “it is done”, not Neo. So that does in NO way prove whether Neo is dead or not.
agreed but it does suggest so.

OMega>Neo is not on any magical island. Wrong reference.

i dont think Neo is actually on an island i was referencing what you said-"Arthur was sailed off to a magical island for healing, and would stay at Avalon until he was once again needed. Neo’s death is more akin to the Death of Arthur and reaching an transcended state of being, which is Buddhist."

The thing about him being needed might be why Oracle says 'we might see him again'.

Old Post Nov 25th, 2003 02:02 PM
mook is currently offline Click here to Send mook a Private Message Find more posts by mook Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
mook
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: United Kingdom

mook>In M2 he is the one but still human: "he is..only human"; "hes just a man".

Addition:Merovingioan: "You see, he's just a man" (when Neo is bleeding) is a free translation of the words "ecce homo" which refer to Jesus and the proof that he is a mere man, because of his suffering.

Old Post Nov 25th, 2003 03:22 PM
mook is currently offline Click here to Send mook a Private Message Find more posts by mook Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
The Omega
Z10N0101

Gender: Female
Location: Denmark

Mook> Neo is a man throughout ALL three movies. And in Animatrix we see Michael Potter’s (The Kid) funeral, so it’s obviously NOT uncommon that a freed rebel is considered “dead” to the Matrix.

Whether Neo is truly dead or not is without doubt debatable. The “It is Done” reference, and the bench may all seem to indicate that he is. However, since funerals (and thereby monuments) for freed minds are being carried out, the bench may’ve been in the Matrix since M1, when Neo was freed by Morpheus and co. If it’s made by the machines however, it would indicate that the MAN Thomas is no more. However, it may go further, and indicate that the machine-AI’s accept that Neo’s more free than any other human. That he is NOT “only human”, but has, indeed transcended, and become ONE (yes, pun intended) with the anomaly.

“Addition:Merovingioan: "You see, he's just a man" (when Neo is bleeding) is a free translation of the words "ecce homo" which refer to Jesus and the proof that he is a mere man, because of his suffering.”

Well, only Christian biblical scholars would know this, and the Christian Jesus is in according to the legends considered to be FAR more than a “mere human”. Neo is NOT bleeding in the battle with the Merovingians henchmen because he’s a “mere human”. But because there are still limits to how much he “disbelieves” the matrix.

An interesting question would undoubtedly be: Since there is a chance Neo is not dead (evidenced by him glowing when he’s being sailed away, and the Oracle’s words), then he could return to the Matrix when he’s “needed” again. But if he’s still The One, would the equation not try to balance itself out again, thereby creating his nemesis again?


__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."


"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."

Old Post Nov 27th, 2003 03:46 AM
The Omega is currently offline Click here to Send The Omega a Private Message Find more posts by The Omega Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
mook
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: United Kingdom

The Omega>the bench may’ve been in the Matrix since M1, when Neo was freed by Morpheus and co.

from what we know about thomas.anderson in M1 he doesnt seem to have any friends (night after night at his computer) and family is unknown (he doesnt mention them after being freed-youd think he would if he had any) so who would put the plaque there?

The Omega>If it’s made by the machines however, it would indicate that the MAN Thomas is no more.

i would agree with that.

The Omega>An interesting question would undoubtedly be: Since there is a chance Neo is not dead (evidenced by him glowing when he’s being sailed away, and the Oracle’s words), then he could return to the Matrix when he’s “needed” again. But if he’s still The One, would the equation not try to balance itself out again, thereby creating his nemesis again?

i think some part of Neo is not dead or in some other place/state.
when would he be needed again - if the machines did not stick to the agreement and the peace/truce ended?

Old Post Nov 27th, 2003 03:14 PM
mook is currently offline Click here to Send mook a Private Message Find more posts by mook Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
The Omega
Z10N0101

Gender: Female
Location: Denmark

Mook> That we do not see his parents (the are in the file Agent Smith flips through), do not mean they’re not there. However, I do think the Machines placed the bench there, as we’ve not met ANYONE who would conceivably place it in the park.
But consider this: To the Machines Neo was Thomas A. Anderson (what Smith makes a point of reminding us of trough the movies). The bench MAY be taken as proof, that the Machines have accepted that he is FREE. Those who wants out will, NOW, be freed, as the Architect tells us.

The Machines will stick to their side of the deal made with Neo. We know that The Matrix Online deals with civil war between the HUMANS. The fraction that wants to destroy the Matrix, and the fraction that wants to keep the peace. If we stick to Arthur legend, then Britain equals the Matrix, that is the Kingdom Neo would be protecting, I think.


__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."


"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."

Old Post Nov 27th, 2003 05:24 PM
The Omega is currently offline Click here to Send The Omega a Private Message Find more posts by The Omega Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
mook
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: United Kingdom

The Omega
ok that makes sense...
so where is neo being taken to at the end of M3?

Old Post Nov 28th, 2003 04:37 PM
mook is currently offline Click here to Send mook a Private Message Find more posts by mook Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
The Omega
Z10N0101

Gender: Female
Location: Denmark

Mook> If we think Neo truly died, the machines might take him to recycling.
If he’s not dead, they’d take him to a place of healing (the Matrix Equivalent of Avalon), where he’d stay until he’s once again needed.
Now: here I see “Ghost in a Shell”, one of my favourite Anime, inspiration. If Neo has merged completely with the anomaly (it, after all being the sum of disbelief, the collective subconscious fight against the Matrix) we have the first true merger of man and program (not man and machine).
If the Matrix is his kingdom, what would he protect now? Instead of trying to break the Matrix he might try to protect it.


__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."


"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."

Old Post Nov 29th, 2003 01:28 AM
The Omega is currently offline Click here to Send The Omega a Private Message Find more posts by The Omega Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Mordecai
I am the way.

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Australia

Hence he may become an agent.


__________________
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part; you can't even passively take part, and you've got to
put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus,
and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it,
to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!" - Mario Savio

Last edited by Mordecai on Nov 30th, 2003 at 10:46 AM

Old Post Nov 30th, 2003 10:44 AM
Mordecai is currently offline Click here to Send Mordecai a Private Message Find more posts by Mordecai Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Mordecai
I am the way.

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Australia

Hence he may become an agent.

The whole protection thing you just mentioned reminds me of an agent.

*shrugs*........highly unlikely.

EDIT: Sorry about above post, i have no idea what went wrong there, but i added some stuff to my post, meh!.


__________________
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part; you can't even passively take part, and you've got to
put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus,
and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it,
to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!" - Mario Savio

Old Post Nov 30th, 2003 10:44 AM
Mordecai is currently offline Click here to Send Mordecai a Private Message Find more posts by Mordecai Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Lag
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: United States

Omega> Thanks for clearing that up for me ( even though I think it would be cooler if he was just that good.)


__________________
My sword, a thousand battles strong.

Old Post Dec 1st, 2003 03:06 PM
Lag is currently offline Click here to Send Lag a Private Message Find more posts by Lag Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
The Omega
Z10N0101

Gender: Female
Location: Denmark

Mordecai> Neo would not re-enter the Matrix with the same program-purpose as an agent. His would be a task that is both to protect humans AND machines (the One and the -1 in a way).


__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."


"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."

Old Post Dec 1st, 2003 04:09 PM
The Omega is currently offline Click here to Send The Omega a Private Message Find more posts by The Omega Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
JediHDM
Jedi of the Matrix

Gender: Male
Location: United States

Omega> YES!! EXACTLY!!!! yes This has been what i have been saying, in more or less words, since the movie came out...


__________________


FOR THE MOTHERLAND!!
KMC KGB

Old Post Dec 1st, 2003 04:47 PM
JediHDM is currently offline Click here to Send JediHDM a Private Message Find more posts by JediHDM Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Sifer

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United Kingdom

Basically, the Yin & Yang of the Matrix smile


__________________
Sifer

Old Post Dec 1st, 2003 04:54 PM
Sifer is currently offline Click here to Send Sifer a Private Message Find more posts by Sifer Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
ShOota
Senior Member

Gender:
Location: United Kingdom

Just a lil thing i spotted out as im watching it now....


When The Machine Fires the Anti Virus stuff into Neos body, You can see a simbol of a Jesus Cross as it first goes in!!! Then it goes everywhere

Old Post Dec 1st, 2003 05:09 PM
ShOota is currently offline Click here to Send ShOota a Private Message Find more posts by ShOota Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
The Omega
Z10N0101

Gender: Female
Location: Denmark

ShOota> And... ? Surely you understand EVERYONE else ALSO saw that? So your point is?


__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."


"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2003 12:53 AM
The Omega is currently offline Click here to Send The Omega a Private Message Find more posts by The Omega Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
ShOota
Senior Member

Gender:
Location: United Kingdom

ok, no need to get all up tight,lol


And that machine that carryed him away was the one on the animatrix...........

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2003 01:44 PM
ShOota is currently offline Click here to Send ShOota a Private Message Find more posts by ShOota Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
mook
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: United Kingdom

quote:
Originally posted by ShOota
ok, no need to get all up tight,lol


And that machine that carryed him away was the one on the animatrix...........


i havent seen the animatrix for a while - what doer sthe machine do in it?

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2003 03:57 PM
mook is currently offline Click here to Send mook a Private Message Find more posts by mook Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Sifer

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United Kingdom

There are lots of machines in The Animatrix. Which one? smile


__________________
Sifer

Old Post Dec 2nd, 2003 04:18 PM
Sifer is currently offline Click here to Send Sifer a Private Message Find more posts by Sifer Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
All times are UTC. The time now is 05:02 PM.
Pages (10): « First ... « 2 3 [4] 5 6 » ... Last »   Last Thread   Next Thread

Home » Movie Franchises » More Movie Forums » The Matrix Movies » Ascertain the fate of The One

Email this Page
Subscribe to this Thread
   Post New Thread  Post A Reply

Forum Jump:
Search by user:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON

Text-only version
 

< - KillerMovies.com - Forum Archive - Forum Rules >


© Copyright 2000-2006, KillerMovies.com. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by: vBulletin, copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.