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Ushgarak
Paladin
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UKCo-Admin
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Yes, clearly the Jedi had to be serious, but Mark meant that they lacked a Han Solo like foil (except for Jar-Jar's one comment 'maxi big da Force), who was contemptuous about the Force, to act as a counterwieght. Not a bad point.
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Oct 17th, 2001 08:52 PM |
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KJ
Sausages
Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Scotland
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Queeq that's not what I thought you meant.  Of course he didn't have any restrictions creatively but I thought you were talking about standards. Like Lucas had no "quality control" so he could do what he liked without having anything to live up to, or anyone to keep happy (like a studio).
He had the most fanatical and critical fanbase as a "quality control" level and he was financing it himself. But I'm not sure if thats what you meant.
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Oct 17th, 2001 09:00 PM |
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queeq
Chaos
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bedModerator
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What I meant was very simple. In 1977 there was neither the money nor the technology to make his vision. Everything had to be invented. All that improved a bit until 1983, but he gave up on pursuing the series because they didn't have the possibilities to make what he wanted.
Now, for TPM, he had both the money (if only based on return of investment which was huge) AND the technology.
So if you have both money and the technology to make it and STILL not make a really much better film, then I think you have failed a bit.
Don't get me wrong. I don't hate TPM. I think it's okay, but it rates lowest on all SW films so far. I'm afraid and I hope it will stay there. Which means the others are a lot better. Better than ROTJ will do for now.
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Oct 17th, 2001 09:10 PM |
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KJ
Sausages
Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Scotland
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Well after seeing the DVD it's made me appreciate how hard it was to make the film even more. I think Lucas did a great job for what will be the least interesting part of the story.
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Oct 18th, 2001 06:13 PM |
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mah
J-type 327 Nubian
Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Florø, Norway
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YES, that's what i've been trying to say to many of my friends, GL really had nothing important to put in the film, only a presentation of anakin. and yet, i think the film was great. heaven knows we wouldn't have made it better 
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Oct 18th, 2001 07:16 PM |
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queeq
Chaos
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bedModerator
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But it was obvious from The Beginning Doc that TPM was quite jumpy with a lot of short scenes stuck together in thr rough cut. Now they did manage to cover most of the problems, but some of it is still visible.
I also think GL learned a lot from TPM and that AOTC will be different, more evolved in this modern way of story telling.
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Oct 18th, 2001 07:22 PM |
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KJ
Sausages
Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Scotland
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I agree with you Mah.
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Oct 18th, 2001 08:34 PM |
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queeq
Chaos
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bedModerator
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I still don't get why you have something against altering a film. Or is it just that someone other than GL did it?
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Oct 18th, 2001 08:42 PM |
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Ratcat
Senior Member
Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
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My real problem with this is that the guy openly did it to further his own career. I do not believe for one minute that he had no hand in the initial distribution.
Plus it is impossible to re-edit a piece without knowing why each shot is there. With 4 outta 6 made and onbly Lucas really knowing what will happen, this guy was editing blind to a certain extent.
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Oct 18th, 2001 11:30 PM |
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queeq
Chaos
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bedModerator
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I don't think he will have cut anything serious. And why is that wrong anyway, to further your career? Goerge Lucas makes money off us by re-editing his films and re-issuing them, remarketing them, making millions and millions of dollars on us.
I still think he did it as a devoted fan, though, not for a career move.
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Oct 19th, 2001 12:38 PM |
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mah
J-type 327 Nubian
Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Florø, Norway
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true
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Oct 19th, 2001 03:45 PM |
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KJ
Sausages
Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Scotland
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I agree with RC.
Yes Queeq I don't have a problem with Lucas playing around with his film. But for someone else to do it is wrong.
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Oct 19th, 2001 06:34 PM |
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Ratcat
Senior Member
Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
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And here is the man himself to tell us why.
George Lucas, in a 1997 interview for Wired said this.
"It's my artistic vision. If I want to go back and change it, it's my business, not somebody else's," Lucas said. "It doesn't make any different whether you're digital or analog; somebody can recut your movie and make it completely different than what it is. The issue is artists' rights... The thing that is problematic in film is who is the artist? Who is the author?... I solved the problem by owning my own copyright, so nobody can screw around with my stuff. Nobody can take "Star Wars" and make Yoda walk, because I own it."
http://www.zap2it.com are running a series of features on this very subject. Their artciles show that this is not, by any means, a new problem.
You can read part one at http://www.zap2it.com/movies/news/s...---9164,00.html
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Oct 19th, 2001 11:45 PM |
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KJ
Sausages
Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Scotland
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And what I've found is that a lot of people who don't mind the Phantom Edit are they same people who would complain if a studio cut a film against the directors wishes, like they did with Blade Runner. It's no different.
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Oct 20th, 2001 03:58 PM |
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queeq
Chaos
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bedModerator
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Oh wait. I agree with all the legal issues here. I completely agree with that. But let's not forget this was NOT a commercial set up here, no rights, no fees, nothing.
Just a fan showing an alternative edit.... now, I know that's not legally correct and all, and I agree with Lucas, but this was just a fan showing an alternative. That's why he sent it to LFL right away.
And now when we look at the result, we as fans can say we like or not like things about TPM and that maybe TPE solved some of the problems with TPM.
Lucas can make anything of SW he wants to, he's entitled to, it's his stuff, but he does not have ownership over us liking every bit he makes.
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Oct 21st, 2001 08:35 PM |
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Ratcat
Senior Member
Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
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He wasn't much of a fan, by his own admission.
The guy distributed the thing, in order to gain recognition. Distribution is illegal... Whether for personal gain or not.
Therefore he broke the law.
Also, look at how annoyed he got when he didn't get the fame he thought he deserved. Infamy isn't quite the same and his rants on the website he created were testiment to that.
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Oct 21st, 2001 10:01 PM |
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queeq
Chaos
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bedModerator
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Anyway, we can still look at the TPE and compare it to TPM and see IF and WHERE it is better.
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Oct 22nd, 2001 08:08 AM |
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KJ
Sausages
Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Scotland
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And then we can meet here and argue about it. 
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Oct 22nd, 2001 02:30 PM |
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queeq
Chaos
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bedModerator
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You catch up pretty quick.
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Oct 22nd, 2001 08:30 PM |
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Ratcat
Senior Member
Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
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Oh definately, I just wanted to make it clear that, no matter how you look at it, the Phantom Editor broke the law.
I wonder what he would think of the new version of Episode-I on the DVD?
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Oct 23rd, 2001 08:05 AM |
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