It's a very difficult area that, Mah. There is a lot of support for the campaign right now so long as it stays focussed. The Bush administration, right now, is doing just that. And this may be the only way to bring the people to justice right now.
If the conflict widens out too far, you may have a point.
Tomacco, bravery IS also throwing away your own life for a cause! Beavery can be evil as well as good, you know. They were brave in an evil and horrible way, but still brave!
Look, I don;t condone their actions. Even if they had been striking in a purely military way, life is not some cheap thing you should just throw away like that, even for a cause. And that they also took several thousand innocent civilians with them is utterly, utterly deplorable. But one way or another, it took guts for them to do it.
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Last edited by Ushgarak on Oct 14th, 2001 at 01:40 PM
ToMacco: i don't know, but for me it seems like you are misunderstanding ush, he doesn't support the terrorists in any ways, he's just stating a fact. the problem may be that you look at the word "brave" differently. aint that right?
Ush, I think you're wrong. It didn't take GUTS to do it. They have no soul, no conscience to do what they did.
mah, we've kept the peace until now. They hit us. We did nothing. They hit us again. We did nothing. They hit us many times, now we're doing something.
And I don't see any neighboring country get behind the terrorists.
thats not right. today 200 people were killed in nigeria, in demonstrations against USA. also in pakistan and other countries there have been big demonstrations.
Well now, no country would be silly enough to get behind the terrorists. Even Afghanistan hasn't literally done that.
But you see plenty of countries saying that the Americans are doing wrong here. It could turn into a wider problem. Saudi Arabia not allowing its bases to be used being one.
Conscience or no, throwing away your life is not a causal decision! No mattr what your beliefs.
Honour in bravery? Not necessarily. There certainly can be, but there doesn't have to be.
But maybe that all comes down to opinion. Look, To, I am sorry if I upset you and I am certainly sorry if you think I am somehow insulting the American people. It was certainly never my inent. I think we might have been talkign a little at cross-purposes here, but I don't think it's worth arguing about, certainly as I am pretty sure we agree on 95% of the stuff about this whole unpleasant situation.
Right now, people arround the world are working more together than they are arguing. Snd I'm sure it won;t last, but on the whole I would rather go with the flow for now.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
Last edited by Ushgarak on Oct 14th, 2001 at 01:59 PM
mah- what are we supposed to do? Sit around and wait for them to attack us again?
We're we supposed to throw our heads back and laugh and say "Boy! You really caught us off guard there! Our bad!"
And yeah Ush. We do agree on most things. I just don't see bravery in what they did. No warning, attacking innocents, that's not bravery in my mind. But you have a right to your own opinion.
mah- those demonstrating have been brought up to hate American's too. They don't know any better. But the polititcians of those countries know not to f**k with us!
of course not, but is this really helping? for all we know, these anthrax letters could be sent from some angry people in pakistan, triggered by the bombings. bombing taliban airports, what's it good for? i know this is a very complicated case, but what good has the bombing done?
Right now, we are taking out important terrorist installations. Without those sites, the terrorists are on the run, which make them easier to catch. They no longer have facilities to train their troops.
Next, we arrest, or kill them. When they are dead and gone, the game of chess is over.
Then . . . I don't know. We all play Nintendo, or something
but taliban military sites are not terrorist-camps, and many terrorist camps are under-earth. and US-haters in other countries are still there.
but don't get me wrong; i hope these actions will be succesfull and that they get bin Laden, i'm far from sure that they will, but i hope.
and, though i don't agree with everything, i understand that you americans support these actions, that you are eager to hit back on those bastards.
in a few years, i do hope that we sit and talk about this as something in the past, while playing nintendo
I agree with Tomacco on the bravery thing. No way were the terrorists brave. What were they giving up? Nothing. They had no lives, no souls or conscience. As someone said , they've been brainwashed into hating the world since they were young.
They have no respect for human life and that includes their own. They don't care if they live or not. That's not being brave. Brave is the men and women who are leaving behind everything to go and fight. These people actually care about their lives, but they still go.
Crashing planes into buildings, killing thousands of people including yourself isn't brave no matter what way you look at it.
you ALWAYS care about your life!!!!
I know some guys of Palestinia and they told me that they did this all because it was the only way to get in the news so the problems they had would be in the media.
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Oct 14th, 2001 01:38 PM
