Gospel? truth or exageration? anyhow i think somewhere in this thread there should be somekinda library where you can look at actual references about anyone you want, i would like to know what this stuff about batman and sunlight is. and geocities is not a fansite its a search engine. unfortunatly marvel has some pretty vauge power grids venom is a five out of seven..but spidey is a four thats only 3 away from juggernaut's 7 and that makes no sense. i remember the marvel cards from 97' and they had the same stats but with actaull references. like a 3 was an olimpic champion and ect..so if someone could post a dc version of a power grid maybe these disputes would be easier to understand
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i got an offical marvel comic collectors hand book that says Venom can press almost 11 tons, but that was written in 1989. (i just bought it cause venom was one of the guys on the cover) I'd say spidey's strength would be about 6.5 may 7.5 tons but i'm not sure. I know the guide is old, but it was officially written by marvel. I don't see how Venom got juiced to 50 tons. That's too strong to be believeable...
yeah i see your point. the 50 is probably wrong but a digger is at least 20. spidermans strengh is listed at 10 and once he lifted 15. carnage is three times spideys strength. but i will try to get a pic of the digger. and i asked a guy at spider-fan what was venom current abilities. all fans really should check it out there isnt much you cant find there. every apperance of every character spiderman related with bios. www.spiderfan.com
ok, i guess he does have a chance against wolvie, but not against the man without fear
__________________ Land of the free, home of the brave...
Do you think we will ever be saved?
In this land of dreams find myself sober...
Wonder when will it'll all be over...
Living in a void when the void grows colder...
Wonder when it'll all be over?
Will you be laughing when it's over?
though wolvie is the best at what he does, batman is better. he has been going out every night for decades fighting psychos. its wolvies brawn vs batmans brains and some brawn of his own. batman outsmarts him, maybe uses wolvies rage against him. batman has found ways to take down the whole jla with no powers of his own! batman wins with experience andhe has beaten tougher opponentsin my opinion.
unless cyke's been getting a tan all day, then blasts logan at full power. His eye can pulverize adamantium according to everything i've read
__________________ Land of the free, home of the brave...
Do you think we will ever be saved?
In this land of dreams find myself sober...
Wonder when will it'll all be over...
Living in a void when the void grows colder...
Wonder when it'll all be over?
Will you be laughing when it's over?
Wolverine has been fighting for decades as well, and more than the Batman. He's about three to four times the Batman's age.
Woverine has pretty good detective skills himself, but his are different as they often rely on natural instincts and sensory input more than meticulous cognitive training and obsessive information intake.
Wolverine's "gut" is never wrong, and his senses are hard to fool. The Batman seems to know everything there is to know.
Wolverine is unquestionably tougher as a fighter; he's faster, obviously more durable, and is equal if not stronger to the Batman in strength (able to lift 800 lbs while possessing adamantium skeleton, the highest limit for a peak-condition human being).
Wolverine's fighting skills rely more on primal instinct coupled with Bushido samurai training than the combined full-spectrum martial arts that the Batman practices.
When all is said and done, it comes down to one factor in my opinion: emotional state of mind. Wolverine would surely win against all odds in a fight with Bats, except for that pesky switch in his head that sometimes makes him lose control. The Batman has more emotional control than Wolverine, even though Wolverine has become significantly more controlled in past decades. The Punisher (overrated psycho that he is) pulled a fantastic move recently; he escaped from Daredevil, Wolverine and Spider-Man by exploiting Wolverine's berserker rage. He slammed Wolvie's nose cartilage into his brain and flipped that switch, leaving DD and Spider-Man to devote their efforts to restraining the crazy runt. As for avoiding Wolverine himself, it was his own ability to think clearly that allowed him to get away from his much stronger and faster opponent. If the Batman used this kind of tactic, it would be his best bet for defeating Wolverine in battle.
__________________
I'm the best there is at what I do, but what I do isn't very nice.
Erm, a sufficient mass of adamantium would be slightly dented if Thor, at full strength, struck it with Mjolnir. Cyke's blast can "pulverize" adamantium?
Not on your life.
Wolvie vs. Batman? With prep time, sorry, Batman defeats Wolverine. He is the superior martial artist (Wolverine would get abused by Daredevil, Bullseye, and Gamora (for starters) and HAS been abused by Elektra on a few occasions), period.
"Faster?" Mmm, how so?
Wolverine would never on earth compare to Batman in detective skills. Batman is not too far behind Sherlock Holmes. Wolvie is not in the same league here.
Batman is a much better tactician. MUCH better.
Batman is oodles smarter - and I am willing to venture that he is much dirtier.
Wolverine is dirtier than Batman in many ways. I stand by Herr Logan's assertion that Wolverine is potentially faster than the Batman. I would not say that Wolverine's detective skills "do not compare" to the Batman's. The Batman's skills of the type you are thinking are better, but Wolverine's senses and experience may be enough to compensate. Their styles are very different, and therefore this isn't an easy fight to decide. The Batman's tactical style is more based on training and knowledge, while Wolverine's is more based on instinct. Wolverine also has training, knowledge, and more experience than the Batman. Wolverine was trained as a covert operative, and he is familiar with high-tech war toys. I'd dare say he can perform any feat the Batman can except reach the top shelf in the fridge, barring the fact that he doesn't have all those toys within his reach at any given moment. He can operate the same kinds of vehicles, all kinds of weapons, and he has knowledge of computers, even if he'd rather not be closed in with machines for long periods of time. In the end, I don't think the Batman has anything on Wolverine except for his look, which isn't going to scare Wolverine, and his emotional control. The Batman would have to pull a Punisher-type move on Wolverine to use this weak spot.
You stated that Wolverine is dirtier than Batman in "many ways" - and you did not list one...?
An example of Batman fighting dirty? Read the "Prometheus Unbound" story arc wherein Batman uploaded the genetic profile of Professor Stephen Hawking after Prometheus accidentally left his helmet behind? Difference between "sneaky" and "dirty." Batman is definitely dirty.
"Potentially faster." Sabretooth is faster than Wolverine. Elektra is faster than Wolverine. Daredevil is faster than Wolverine. Do recall Wolverine is lugging around an additional 100 lbs (adamantium exoskeleton) while Batman is just about the epitome of human excellence as regards to physical condition. "Faster?" No way - neither his speed nor his reflexes were not augmented as a result of his Weapon X enhancements.
Detective skills? Sure, he can track anyone damn near anwhere, but is this is but one aspect of detective work. So can Batman, albeit a tad slower. I should have clarified by saying that Batman's analytical skills are far superior (and this comes into play while doing detective work). Do you wish to challenge that? I can cite several instances from the latest JLA run that would support my position.
Operate the same kinds of vehicles? Egad, your moniker IS Batman - no way can Wolvie operate the same technology that Batman can. Batman is a tinkerer - he is also a genius. Do you think that Wolverine could, for example, design the Batmobile? Not on your life.
"Knowledge of computers." Again, Batman's proficiency with ALL manner of technology far exceeds Wolvie's. You might want to call Tony Starks.
Batman is a better martial artist (who has beaten Batman in martial arts? I think Lady Shiva, who is like a 10 on a 1-10 scale) also. Wolverine, again, falls under Gamora, Daredevil, Bullseye, and Elektra. Here is a quick scale for you; am interested in what knowledge you possess of the martial arts abilities of various comic book characters (this is on a 1-10 scale and is accurate, trust me):
Now where on this scale do you think Wolverine falls...?
My position? Batman is a far superior battlefield tactician, analyst, detective, inventor, businessman, thinker, and I am in the process of providing evidence that he is a superior fighter.
bullseye? jesus, give DD some credit, he and elektra are at least a 9.7. bullseye is a 7 at best. the fact that he beat elektra was a fluke, and the only times he has ever beaten daredevil was when DD was either injured or nuts. also, batman has knocked him out with one punch, and his adamantium skeleton is even heavier than wolverine's since some of his bones are complete adamantium prosthetics.
__________________ Land of the free, home of the brave...
Do you think we will ever be saved?
In this land of dreams find myself sober...
Wonder when will it'll all be over...
Living in a void when the void grows colder...
Wonder when it'll all be over?
Will you be laughing when it's over?
the only 10's that I can think of are Ogun, Iron Fist, Shiva, Stick, and Stone.
__________________ Land of the free, home of the brave...
Do you think we will ever be saved?
In this land of dreams find myself sober...
Wonder when will it'll all be over...
Living in a void when the void grows colder...
Wonder when it'll all be over?
Will you be laughing when it's over?
got any pick's of stick and stone? there is a spiderman version but there styx and stone and from the look's of the spidey version they were mediocure villian's at best
Batman did knock Bullseye out with one punch in Marvel vs. DC. Batman is stronger (or just meaner) than Daredevil.
Honestly, I can't think of a specific example of Wolverine being a dirty ittle bastard, but after reading his exploits for several years, I figured that his twisted sense of humor combined with his willingness to take a human life (a line the Batman will not cross) made him more flexible in his conduct than the Batman.
I don't believe for one second that Bullseye can beat Wolverine in a fight. It's very possible that Daredevil could win a fight with Wolverine under the right circumstances, but he isn't faster, stronger, or more vicious. I don't believe that Sabretooth is faster than Wolverine. Both Sabretooth and Batman weigh more than Wolverine, and as for carrying "an extra 100" around with him, Wolverine has had plenty of time to adapt to his condition, which has made him stronger. It is recorded that when possessing his adamantium skeleton, he can lift 800 lbs., which is equal to or more than any normal human like the Batman can lift. If the Batman is equal to Captain America, then he is equal in strength to Wolverine. Wolverine doesn't need to have been enhanced by the Weapon X program in speed and reflexes. His speed and reflexes are such that he has moved faster than trained enforcers' eyes could keep up. He has moved fast enough that he is at the very least equal to the Batman, and certainly Daredevil as well. he was fast enough to blindside Spider-Man with a grabbing maneuver, and you know about the spider-sense.
Certainly the Batman's analytical skills are more advanced than Wolverine's. He relies on those. Wolverine isn't the inventor of any major weapons or high-tech vehicles, but the point is, he could use them if he had to. Bruce Wayne does actually invent all of his technology, either. Often, Wayne will discover new technology, set up a department in WayneTech to build something similar, and then big pieces of machinery mysteriously disappear from the warehouse. I have the Ultimate Guide to Batman and it lays that much out clearly.
Wolverine was a trained covert operative and a soldier, so his weapons and computer training give him enough of an edge to keep up with someone who relies on such technology, when his real strengths are his own body and instincts.
Wolverine may have studied as many martial arts styles as the Batman, and he may not have. either way, his style of fighting can lean toward the organized styles that the Batman uses or just pure fighting instinct. I have confidence that a realistic fight between these two would yield a draw at best for the batman, and a victory for Wolverine at the worst.
Both of these fighters never quit, ever. This in mind, the big question is, who can last longer? You could also ask who is more willing to end the fight quickly, but I don't believe that Wolverine would seriously consider killing a man of the Batman's caliber, unless the Batman flipped his switch and sent him into a mindless rage, which would be his best bet for a victory. The Batman's brain serve him well, but they don't overpower Wolverine's instinct and fighting prowess, until you take away Wovlerine's ability to think rationally at all.
KMC Community Forums
Jan 6th, 2004 01:02 AM
no expression 
one eye 
pirate 
raver 
reading
Will build upon that this evening.
