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Venom Ghostrider VS Hulk Juggernaut
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Marcellus
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yep, its pretty good first series was shiver, now there on run and its pretty badass. its about what happend after finale, the symbiote is running to or from somthing and eddie brock is missing. wolverine gets trown into the mix too. heres the shiver series

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Old Post Jan 17th, 2004 08:34 PM
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Marcellus
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here is a page, you get the idea

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Old Post Jan 18th, 2004 06:55 AM
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Eidolon
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Thanks, it looks sweet. I'm really sorry to say I haven't seen much of Venom since his Comic in which he goes on trial. After that comic I couldn't find any more so I stopped collecting comics for awhile till Ult X-men came out and Ult Spidy (since I'd figure Venom would resuface if they're doing Ult Spidy, which he did, but I'm not sure I'm really happy with that Venom).

Old Post Jan 19th, 2004 12:48 AM
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Marcellus
executioner

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yeah the same thing happend with me, now i have to find a new comic shop, but you can read reviews for most series at the spiderfan site.
and i was right venom s strengh has been enhanced i contact'ed the site and here is the reply

From : Henrique Ferreira <henrique.falcao@spiderfan.org>
Sent : Tuesday, January 13, 2004 4:29 PM
To : <venomfan@hotmail.com>
Subject : RE: SpiderFan.Org - venom bio

You're right, Venom has been shown once to rival Iron Man in strength.
That's probably his best achievement.

An update on the strength value is now on our (very long) "To do" list.
We'll get there eventually.

Thanks for your input,


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Old Post Jan 19th, 2004 03:01 AM
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Never
Grammaton Cleric

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

quote:
Originally posted by Eidolon

As for the Venom and Ghost vs Juggy and Hulk, Juggy is a wuss. I don't mean he isn't strong or hard to hurt but in the big sceme of things he's to stupid and not quite as powerful as is often clamied. Otherwise how is it he's been beaten up or defeated in so many battles? In know Spidy ended up trapping him in a huge cement foundation for quite some time, and Venom ran the Juggernaught off after a fist fight. I don't know that much about the Juggernaught but as far as I know his force feild isn't immune or a perfect defense. I remember hearing that there are limitations as to when he can or can't use it or when he uses it lowers some of his other abilities or something to that effect.


If you admittedly know little to nothing about Juggernaut, why are you even commenting? His forcefield would protect him from *anything* Venom could throw at him.

quote:
So what I'm saying is it may be possible for the symbiote to enter through Juggy's force feild.


Incorrect.

quote:
As for Ghost rider if he can't be hurt by punches and stuff what would Juggy do to kill him? Juggy to stupid to figure out a way so Ghost could do his "Stare" thing to incapacitate Juggy in a fight.


Are "punches and stuff" all that Cain Marko has at his disposal? Juggernaut, "overrated?" LoL, might try finding story arcs that full explore his powers and not some garbage Venom Mini-Series roll eyes (sarcastic)

quote:
To beat Hulk I would think Venom would have to get right up close and use his Symbiote to tie Hulk up a bit (I know he wouldn't be able to keep Hulk from moving or anything, but he could slow Hulk down. While Venom does that Ghost could try his demon Stare on Hulk too since Hulk has done some bad things before.


Hulk would absolutely shred Venom's symbiote. Ghostrider's "stare" traumatizes human souls. Mindless Hulk operates purely on animal instinct. Ghost Rider gets tossed into a volcano. Hulk grabs Venom, rips him limb from limb. End of story.

quote:
Also I wonder if Venom could Chameleon camoflauge himself to get right up on Hulk and use his Symbiote to take control of hulk by partially going on him and messing with Hulk's mind.


He cannot. "Mindless Hulk." No mind.

quote:
If Venom could take partiall control of Hulk he may get Hulk to turn to Bruce Banner and then he and Ghost could beat him that way. I don't know if Venom would just get part of his Symbiote into Hulks Skull to his brain and just release Hormones to calm Huld down or what.


Release hormones to calm Hulk down? LoL, this is Venom, not Starfox. Mindless Hulk HAS no Bruce Banner to turn into. Venom gets curbstomped, and BADLY.

Again, Venom has zero zero zero place in the same sentence with Hulk and Juggernaut. Venom would get CRUSHED by Batman with prep time, same with Black Panther with prep time. Venom is NO world-class fighter.

quote:
You're right, Venom has been shown once to rival Iron Man in strength. That's probably his best achievement.


Um, wrong. Iron Man powers up to 85-95 tons. Venom is nowhere near. He must have meant an OLD Iron Man - and I do mean OLD.

Old Post Jan 19th, 2004 04:25 AM
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Marcellus
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Gender: Male
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you do realize that your bassing your OPINOIN all on what you think would happen. dont you understand that everything that you say about juggernuat beating up venom is only your view. yes Iam a fan of venom. but HE beat juggy like it or not. you are not going to say that in a comic were juggernuat lose'es is a thrashy series now are you? he lose'es all the time becuase he is a idoit. im not going to reciet the whole 3 part series becuase its not worth my time. did you see the infinty war? hulk was taken by the symbiote and LIKED IT! hulk loved the extra power!
dont say profesor hulk wouldnt let this happen, becuase the carnage symbiote took silver surffer. when the symbiote cant find a way to win it takes the enemy as a host. this has happend plenty of times.


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Old Post Jan 19th, 2004 04:40 AM
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Marcellus
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maybe this will shut you up about the great juggernuat. the first issue juggernuat kicked venoms ass. Venom only hit him three times then juggy slammed him threw the pavement, venom was about to get up but couldnt. then he bonded to the mercury element(i dont know what that did) issue two not much happend. issue three they fight again, venom hops aroun a finaly hits juggernuat with a log and pop off comes the helmet. end story like it or not he lost


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Old Post Jan 19th, 2004 04:45 AM
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Never
Grammaton Cleric

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

"Shut me up?" How mature is that big grin

Point is you are an opinionated fanboy who thinks that Venom is the greatest thing since the second chopstick. Venom sucks as a fighter and Batman/Captain America would give him FITS.

Venom uses a LOG and knocks of Juggernaut's helmet? Brilliant writing! Bravo! The helmet prevents him from being susceptible to a PSIONIC attack, the helmet is NOT his source of POWER. The GEM powers Juggernaut.

Why are you telling me he knocked his helmet off confused

Ask a CREDIBLE writer (Busiek, Morrison, Ennis, Ellis, J. Michael, Byrne, Claremont, Lobdell, Moore, et al) who would win between Juggernaut and Venom.

All would reply "Juggernaut." Venom is not in his league, and that is FACT, not opinion.

LMAO @ Carnage "taking over Silver Surfer." More idiotic writing akin to Wolverine slashing open Silver Surfer with his claws roll eyes (sarcastic) Because it was written, that makes it ***realistic?*** NO! Juggernaut losing to Venom is NOT realistic, dude. Juggernaut fights THOR!! Thor would DESTROY Venom!

Thor, Juggernaut, Hulk, VENOM. Which name does not belong? embarrasment

Old Post Jan 19th, 2004 05:46 AM
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Marcellus
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wow, you got to be kidding me. so what are you gonna write comics now? its pretty lame becuase i have shown you venom beat juggernuat, and your argument is that the writers dont know what there doing. last i checked you werent in charge of marvel.


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Old Post Jan 19th, 2004 05:58 AM
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Never
Grammaton Cleric

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Location: United States

Will say it again - do you know any writers? Browse any writer messageboards? Why don't you go to your local comic shop and ask one of the OWNERS if Venom could dream of beating Juggernaut - and then when they tell you "HELL NO" (which they WILL) point out that "well dudes, Venom beat Juggernaut in his own mini-series" then come back and tell us what they tell you.

Old Post Jan 19th, 2004 06:55 AM
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Marcellus
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look i also said this before venom did not (beat up) Juggernuat, and instead of argueing the same thing over and over again i suggest you rethink your point. i dont think venom could beat juggernuat up in a strait fight but thats not what the series was about.


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Old Post Jan 19th, 2004 07:12 AM
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Eidolon
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If Juggy's force sheild is so strong why could Onslaught go right through it and rip out the Gem from Juggernaught? Why has Juggy been beat up or defeated so many times if he's "invincible"? Why was his helment removed when fighting the X-man which allowed for telepathic attacks on him if his sheild is so invincible? I'll tell you, cause he's stupid and despite what he says he's not unstopable.

All of which has been pertty much clearly pointed at in most comics he's in. I don't know on what level his sheild works (how powerful it is or how it's made) but neither do you, all you say is it's unbreakable but with no real proof. As for Comic game shops and their employees, they don't have any more say as to what would happen hypothetically than any other person not in Marvel.

Both Venom and Ghost are fast enough and smart enought to stay out of Juggy's why till they can come up with a plan to defeat Juggy, which usually is all that is needed to end up defeating Juggy time to think and execute a plan.

Like I said before I don't know how Juggys sheild opperates, it's limitations ect..., but Venom can and has controlled his Symbiote on the molecualar level to travel through data streams. (he's put his computer through a computer screen, used the network connection to go to another computer screen in a different building and come out (his Symbiote not all of him)) all I'm asking is it may be possible to go through Juggy's sheild the same way, after all light can get through what else can?

As for Hulk I was thinking of the Smart Hulk as Venom and Ghost's opponent. You know the Hulk with a mind, the one who fought Onslaught. But if you want to make it Dumb hulk go right a head cause Dumb Hulk is easier to defeat by lesser strength opponets as been proven in the past. Given Venom's speed and camo abilities he and Ghost could have plenty of time to figure out how to defeat Hulk.

Old Post Jan 19th, 2004 04:43 PM
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Eidolon
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The fact is the only Marvel info you can really go off of for Venom and Juggy is their fights in the Venom mini-series in which Venom of courst won.

Also Venomfan when Carnage takes over Silver Surfer was that a Silver Surfer comic or Spidy? I think it was Spidy right.

Old Post Jan 19th, 2004 04:45 PM
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Marcellus
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yeah

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Old Post Jan 19th, 2004 05:18 PM
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Marcellus
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and this one

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Old Post Jan 19th, 2004 05:18 PM
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Eidolon
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Sweet I'll have to get those some time

Old Post Jan 19th, 2004 06:25 PM
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Never
Grammaton Cleric

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Location: United States

quote:
Originally posted by Eidolon
If Juggy's force sheild is so strong why could Onslaught go right through it and rip out the Gem from Juggernaught?


Just who do you think ONSLAUGHT is? The combined might of the earth's super heroes could not put a dent in Onslaught's armor. Onslaught is clearly no fluff boy.

quote:
Why has Juggy been beat up or defeated so many times if he's "invincible"? Why was his helment removed when fighting the X-man which allowed for telepathic attacks on him if his sheild is so invincible? I'll tell you, cause he's stupid and despite what he says he's not unstopable.


Same reason GALACTUS has been snuffed several times when clearly he is supposed to be one of the fundamental forces of the Marvel Universe. Depends on the writer and story arc. Juggernaut has been cast as INCREDIBLY powerful, and he has also been cast as a sniveling bully. Read more.

quote:
I don't know on what level his sheild works (how powerful it is or how it's made) but neither do you, all you say is it's unbreakable but with no real proof.


I know that it is MORE than powerful enough to thwart anything Venom could toss at him. Duh, it depends on the writer. A writer could have Juggernaut suffer from a HEADACHE, thus breaking his concentration and his forcefield THEN Venom could get inside. Again, all things being REGULAR, Juggernaut would utterly DESTROY Venom.

quote:
As for Comic game shops and their employees, they don't have any more say as to what would happen hypothetically than any other person not in Marvel.


I guarantee you that MOST comic shop owners know a hell of a lot more about characters than YOU do. I am willing to bet my house that I know a hell of a lot more than you do as well. Have been reading/collecting comics for some 22 years, and have thousands. And thousands. And THOUSANDS of comic books.

quote:
Both Venom and Ghost are fast enough and smart enought to stay out of Juggy's why till they can come up with a plan to defeat Juggy, which usually is all that is needed to end up defeating Juggy time to think and execute a plan.


Venom is STUPID. Ex-felon. DUMB. He is no tactician. If this were BATMAN or BLACK Panther, then they could come up with the means to defeat Juggernaut. Venom? Not on your life. And um, what would Hulk be doing while Venom and Ghostrider sit and draw diagrams in the sand?

quote:
Like I said before I don't know how Juggys sheild opperates, it's limitations ect..., but Venom can and has controlled his Symbiote on the molecualar level to travel through data streams. (he's put his computer through a computer screen, used the network connection to go to another computer screen in a different building and come out (his Symbiote not all of him)) all I'm asking is it may be possible to go through Juggy's sheild the same way, after all light can get through what else can?


And light is the ONLY thing that does. Juggernaut does not need to breathe. Venom cannot penetrate it. Simple.

quote:
As for Hulk I was thinking of the Smart Hulk as Venom and Ghost's opponent. You know the Hulk with a mind, the one who fought Onslaught. But if you want to make it Dumb hulk go right a head cause Dumb Hulk is easier to defeat by lesser strength opponets as been proven in the past. Given Venom's speed and camo abilities he and Ghost could have plenty of time to figure out how to defeat Hulk.


Again, you do not read your comic books. "Venom's speed?" LMAO, he is Barry Allen? Wally West? Pietro? Give me a break. GREY HULK could stomp a hole in Venom. "Smart Hulk?" Sir, that would be The Professor with the genius level intellect AND Class 100 strength. He'd scatter Venom AND his symbiote all over Lake Michigan with a particle cannon. Better choose the weakest - GREY Hulk, who would STILL own Venom. And EASILY.

"Dumb Hulk?" Do you read comics? Go reread Hulk #299 and Hulk #300 and show me how the entire AVENGERS could not defeat this "Dumb Hulk" and how on earth Venom would stand a chance. Do you know how they "defeated" Hulk? Dr. Strange had to teleport him to another DIMENSION because Thor, Starfox, Vision, Scarlett Witch, The Human Torch, and Captain Marvel could not do DIDDLY SQUAT with "Dumb Hulk." Hulk could literally backhand Venom AND Ghostrider into the upper atmosphere. "Dumb Hulk" lifted 150 BILLION TONS in Secret Wars #4. "Dumb Hulk" clapped his hands together and snuffed Johhny's flame, knocking him unconscious. "Dumb Hulk" knocked Vision on the top of his head (and Vision would DESTROY Venom) like a nail into wood. Get it into your head, Venom could nevereverevereverever defeat Hulk.

Why you and Fan swear that Venom is "badass" is beyond me. A whole host of characters would STOMP him. The entire Uncanny X-Men have been called upon to deal with Juggernaut - CYCLOPS, GAMBIT, BISHOP, ROGUE, COLLOSUS, and STORM could take out Venom ALONE.

Last edited by Never on Jan 20th, 2004 at 01:50 AM

Old Post Jan 20th, 2004 01:31 AM
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Marcellus
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dude your arguments are lame, Eidilon agrees with me becuase it happend, do i really care what a couple of comic book shop owners think? NO! i care about what MARVEL COMICS RELEASSED! you have no basis for a argument, why? becuase juggernuat never beat venom, in fact nowadays he is a friggin clown who loses all the time. and please Cyclops and bishop are goons, Storm and wolverine are the only X-men who gave venom any trouble. you even said gambit proves how little you know. VENOM BONDED TO GAMBIT LOL your are clueless

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Old Post Jan 20th, 2004 02:03 AM
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Marcellus
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venoms symbiot can break down to a molecular level, thus it can easily get threw his shield, next yousless fact please


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Old Post Jan 20th, 2004 02:04 AM
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Never
Grammaton Cleric

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Location: United States

quote:
Originally posted by venomfan
venoms symbiot can break down to a molecular level, thus it can easily get threw his shield, next yousless fact please


What is Juggernaut's shield made of, dork? Exactly, you don't KNOW - so you were saying?

Ever heard of Full Potential Gambit? I didn't think so, so again - you were saying?

Marvel released a comic book where Wolverine's claws slashed open Silver Surfer's armor - does that mean that it is LIKELY? Yeah, I thought not - you were saying?

DC Comics released a comic book when Wolverine defeated Lobo - does that mean it is LIKELY? You were saying?

DC Comics released a crossover wherein Silver Surfer damn near killed Orion - does that mean it is LIKELY? Orion is a NEW GOD, Silver Surfer is a HERALD - you were SAYING? I thought not.

LoL @ Cyclops and Bishop being goons, how old are you? 12?

Happy Dance

Old Post Jan 20th, 2004 02:29 AM
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