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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Episode IV, V & VI » Darth Vader vs. Yoda


Darth Vader vs. Yoda
Started by: Maikahyandowen

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quanchi112
"Strongest Avenger"

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
We'll never know.
Yoda told Obi he was not powerful enough to take on Darth Sidious. Yoda clearly was in his league. Obi was formidable enough to defeat Vader though.


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Old Post May 13th, 2015 02:10 AM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
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Yup, and Yoda couldn't defeat Sidious. Makes you wonder how clever these Jedi-in-their-prime really were... Another point where Lucas ruined the OT: Yoda turns out to be a loud mouth who can't make things work that he claims he can...


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Old Post May 13th, 2015 06:47 AM
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quanchi112
"Strongest Avenger"

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Yup, and Yoda couldn't defeat Sidious. Makes you wonder how clever these Jedi-in-their-prime really were... Another point where Lucas ruined the OT: Yoda turns out to be a loud mouth who can't make things work that he claims he can...
He did lose but he was definitely a peer to Sidious. He was unable to kill him in the limited time he had before reinforcements arrived. When Palpatine got the higher ground he essentially got the advantage he didn't relinquish.

His keys words were, "Darth Vader WILL become more powerful than either of us."

He didn't DIDN'T say HAD become because he wasn't at their level at that point nor did he ever achieve that potential due to his maiming at the hands of Obi.


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Old Post May 13th, 2015 04:20 PM
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queeq
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Obviously Palpy was always more powerful than Vader. Vader was still his slave in ROTJ. And Yoda lost from Sidious and admitted that he had 'failed'. So... there we are...


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Old Post May 13th, 2015 06:39 PM
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quanchi112
"Strongest Avenger"

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Obviously Palpy was always more powerful than Vader. Vader was still his slave in ROTJ. And Yoda lost from Sidious and admitted that he had 'failed'. So... there we are...
And he was less powerful than Yoda. Sidious didn't kill him. Yoda also matched his force lightning. What happened to Vader when force lightning hit him ?

Yoda and Palpatine are peers. Vader wasn't. Vader was a peer to a Obi who severed his limbs. Much worse than falling down from a pod because of poor positioning while redirecting the force lightning.


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Old Post May 15th, 2015 02:16 AM
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EmperorSidious2
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I say if the two fought on even ground I say vader because yoda is to straight forward in his style and he is older and lacks the leverage or stamina to keep up a lightsaber marathon fight. Vader can definitely match yoda in sabers as he has enough experience of dueling fast opponents, and strong opponents. Also in terms of combative use of the force I'd say vader also takes this as yoda needs time and concentration if he's going to pull off a powerful force push (MOST OF THE TIME) while vader would have little trouble being in the field 20 years straight.


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Old Post May 23rd, 2015 09:00 PM
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quanchi112
"Strongest Avenger"

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I say if the two fought on even ground I say vader because yoda is to straight forward in his style and he is older and lacks the leverage or stamina to keep up a lightsaber marathon fight. Vader can definitely match yoda in sabers as he has enough experience of dueling fast opponents, and strong opponents. Also in terms of combative use of the force I'd say vader also takes this as yoda needs time and concentration if he's going to pull off a powerful force push (MOST OF THE TIME) while vader would have little trouble being in the field 20 years straight.
I completely disagree. Yoda in the midst of battle reacts to the pods being tossed his way by Palpatine and handles it fine. He is about as quick with his force powers if not quicker than Vader. For all Vaders potential he failed to live up to it. Yoda is far more agile in combat than Vader is. Yoda wins.


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Old Post May 24th, 2015 03:34 AM
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queeq
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Well, we'll never know.


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Old Post May 27th, 2015 06:46 AM
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Kosmos Supreme
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Yoda handily


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Old Post Jun 11th, 2015 02:58 AM
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quanchi112
"Strongest Avenger"

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Well, we'll never know.
What won't we know ?


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Old Post Jun 11th, 2015 04:59 AM
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queeq
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Who would win in a fight between Yoda and Vader...


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Old Post Jun 14th, 2015 11:12 AM
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Stigma
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Yoda.


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Old Post Jun 15th, 2015 09:33 AM
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quanchi112
"Strongest Avenger"

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Who would win in a fight between Yoda and Vader...
We won't ever definitively know but the evidence strongly leans in Yoda's favor.


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Old Post Jun 15th, 2015 05:44 PM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yoda told Obi he was not powerful enough to take on Darth Sidious. Yoda clearly was in his league. Obi was formidable enough to defeat Vader though.



Not saying Vader could have taken on Sidious, but your logic here doesn't work.

Simply because Kenobi was clearly incapable of competing against Count Dooku also. But Anakin beat Dooku. Yet Kenobi was still able to beat Vader. So... There you go


SW doesn't have a simple A>B>C Power scale, and leaves huge question marks everywhere. Like how the 2nd most powerful Jedi was able to defeat the Emperor, when the Most powerful Jedi failed to do so.

Old Post Jun 16th, 2015 12:35 PM
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quanchi112
"Strongest Avenger"

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Not saying Vader could have taken on Sidious, but your logic here doesn't work.

Simply because Kenobi was clearly incapable of competing against Count Dooku also. But Anakin beat Dooku. Yet Kenobi was still able to beat Vader. So... There you go


SW doesn't have a simple A>B>C Power scale, and leaves huge question marks everywhere. Like how the 2nd most powerful Jedi was able to defeat the Emperor, when the Most powerful Jedi failed to do so.
Yoda, Sidious, and Windu were the best. Obi and Anakin were in the same peer group clearly looking up to the best. Obi was familiar with Anakin but more importantly like I said in the same tier. The circumstances were also different for Windu and Yoda against Sidious. It's like any great NFL team and match ups. Just because a team is the best doesn't mean they can't lose to peers here and there. They aren't unbeatable.


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Old Post Jun 17th, 2015 03:06 AM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yoda, Sidious, and Windu were the best. Obi and Anakin were in the same peer group clearly looking up to the best. Obi was familiar with Anakin but more importantly like I said in the same tier. The circumstances were also different for Windu and Yoda against Sidious. It's like any great NFL team and match ups. Just because a team is the best doesn't mean they can't lose to peers here and there. They aren't unbeatable.



None of that explains why Obi-Wan was incapable of competing with Count Dooku, yet Anakin could compete with him (even defeat him).

So what league would you place Dooku in? Anakin's or Windu's? Or somewhere in between? I personally think either Dooku or Anakin can compete against Windu. But that doesn't mean they can compete with Sidious just because Windu did.

ROTS was simply not consistent in it's power scales. Which is fine. Everyone fights differently, and Star Wars tends to leave a lot of blanks and question marks.

Old Post Jun 17th, 2015 10:31 AM
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quanchi112
"Strongest Avenger"

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Thor
None of that explains why Obi-Wan was incapable of competing with Count Dooku, yet Anakin could compete with him (even defeat him).

So what league would you place Dooku in? Anakin's or Windu's? Or somewhere in between? I personally think either Dooku or Anakin can compete against Windu. But that doesn't mean they can compete with Sidious just because Windu did.

ROTS was simply not consistent in it's power scales. Which is fine. Everyone fights differently, and Star Wars tends to leave a lot of blanks and question marks.
Anakin matched up better against Dooku then Obi did. It's a matchup problem.

Dooku is in Anakin's league. He isn't up there with the big boys. Obi was unable to take out jango. Windu cut his head off. Windu is at the top of the mountain. Fiction is rarely consistent.


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Old Post Jun 17th, 2015 02:38 PM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
Anakin matched up better against Dooku then Obi did. It's a matchup problem.



Matched up better? Obi-Wan was hilariously outmatched by Count Dooku.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
Dooku is in Anakin's league.


Then clearly Kenobi isn't in Anakin's league. Because he wasn't even close to Dooku's level.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
He isn't up there with the big boys.


Which big boys? He did fight off Yoda, who is the top dog of the Jedi. He was also capable of matching Kenobi and Skywalker together at times. So there's really no reason to think Dooku can't be a match for Windu, who even Maul is capable of engaging in the new canon.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
Obi was unable to take out jango. Windu cut his head off.


Now you're just being silly.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
Windu is at the top of the mountain. Fiction is rarely consistent.



No not at all. Yoda and Sidious are the top dogs of the prequel era.

If I was to rank the rest (knowing much more about Star Wars canon than you) then I'd say Windu, Anakin and Dooku are the next level down. And then the level below them comes Kenobi and Maul.

But Star Wars generally leaves much to the imagination. Which is why we have things which don't fit my above rankings like Windu disarming Sidious, and Kenobi defeating Anakin.

Nevertheless the majority of people in the Star Wars forum, who all know SW much better than you, would pretty much agree with my rankings.

Old Post Jun 18th, 2015 11:57 AM
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quanchi112
"Strongest Avenger"

Registered: May 2007
Location: Ohio


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Matched up better? Obi-Wan was hilariously outmatched by Count Dooku.




Then clearly Kenobi isn't in Anakin's league. Because he wasn't even close to Dooku's level.




Which big boys? He did fight off Yoda, who is the top dog of the Jedi. He was also capable of matching Kenobi and Skywalker together at times. So there's really no reason to think Dooku can't be a match for Windu, who even Maul is capable of engaging in the new canon.




Now you're just being silly.





No not at all. Yoda and Sidious are the top dogs of the prequel era.

If I was to rank the rest (knowing much more about Star Wars canon than you) then I'd say Windu, Anakin and Dooku are the next level down. And then the level below them comes Kenobi and Maul.

But Star Wars generally leaves much to the imagination. Which is why we have things which don't fit my above rankings like Windu disarming Sidious, and Kenobi defeating Anakin.

Nevertheless the majority of people in the Star Wars forum, who all know SW much better than you, would pretty much agree with my rankings.
What aren't you getting ? Anakin waxed Dooku but Dooku waxed Obi. Obi still bested Anakin but knew him inside and out. Some guys match up better against others. This isn't brain science.

Dooku IMO would have lost but he did hold his own long enough to threaten yoda's friends lives to escape. Context matters. Do you think Dooku can disarm and beat Palpatine like Windu did ?

laughing out loud


It shows Windu is clearly superior than Obi. It's rather obvious.

Nah. Windu actually beat Palaptine whereas Yoda didn't even best Dooku or Palpatine. Facts match my opinions while hyperbole matches yours.


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Old Post Jun 18th, 2015 05:58 PM
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Darth Thor
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2008
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
What aren't you getting ? Anakin waxed Dooku but Dooku waxed Obi. Obi still bested Anakin but knew him inside and out. Some guys match up better against others. This isn't brain science.


Which is why what you wrote here makes no sense:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yoda told Obi he was not powerful enough to take on Darth Sidious. Yoda clearly was in his league. Obi was formidable enough to defeat Vader though.



You admit above that Obi bested Anakin but couldn't compete with Dooku because he knows Anakin inside out. And yet here you use Yoda saying Kenobi can't compete with someone as some sort of proof that Anakin can't erm





quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
Dooku IMO would have lost but he did hold his own long enough to threaten yoda's friends lives to escape. Context matters. Do you think Dooku can disarm and beat Palpatine like Windu did ?



Well not that we've ever seen a Saber match up between Dooku and Sidious, but no I don't believe Dooku would win that. Doesn't mean Dooku can't match Windu.

I've proven, and you've admitted A>B>C means A>C doesn't work that smoothly in SW.

If it did, Windu would have stomped Maul without blinking when he engaged him in the Disney Canon (based on TCW unfinished S6 episodes) Son of Dathmir comic.

Windu also would have baterred Mother Talzin when he fought her in a finished S6 episode.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
It shows Windu is clearly superior than Obi. It's rather obvious.



No one's disputing that Windu is clearly > Kenobi. But your example of why Mace is better is a terrible one.



quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
Nah. Windu actually beat Palaptine whereas Yoda didn't even best Dooku or Palpatine. Facts match my opinions while hyperbole matches yours.



Not really. Yoda fought Palpatine out in the open where Palpatine could use his environment and Force Powers to their full effect. Yoda also didn't begin the fight with help from 3 other Jedi.

Context/Environments/Circumstances is everything in Jedi/Sith fights.

Yoda is simply more Powerful than Mace. Yoda can casually freeze Ventress, and matches Palpatine's force powers. Palpatine chucks Maul and Opress around with ease.

Yet Windu has to be serious effort in to defeat Maul erm

You do the math.

Old Post Jun 19th, 2015 11:22 AM
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