Gender: Male Location: United States, anywhere I see fit,
Just to give you all my standing on the current... thread thing... I have no religion, I believe in what I've learned. I don't know if there is such a religion or not, but I don't intend to be one. I'm trying to be the unbiased opinion of this way of living. I understand very quickly, so I'm hoping that I will be able to read all religious books, and also listen to scientists and what they have proven, or are trying to prove.
I don't know if I will get far with this, but anyone with any info that they think would be useful please PM or E-mail me with it, (PM would be better). My posts are usually confusing, so I apologize because of the complexity of my mind at work while I try to keep up with it... @_@
__________________ Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even though it can be wrong.
No problem with arguing about St Anselmus. He died about 900 years ago and I think he doesnt care about that. And I dont agree with him too. It was just a note about a very religious philosopher. Wise and scholar at the XI century, but an absolute anachronism today.
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«...et tu seras pour moi unique au monde, et je serais pour toi unique au monde...»
Gender: Female Location: lazing around and drinking lemonade
Corlindel: ^_^ lol... I just wanted to let you know that I didn't think YOU said that, that I knew you quoted that... lol... ^^; Heheh... okay, me no make sense. I'll just stop talking now....
The omega > [quote] Why, btw, do I get the feeling that people, like Corlindel and DjmissPinkie, who make no contribution to this thread, would love it if someone COULD prove Creationism?
I do make contributions i just had my name changed (formerly the MCElite) and you guys all appear to have degrees in philosophy and only being 14 i kinda get lost ..... (and also ive been on holiday for a week and havent yet read all the new posts...)
Darkhorn-Hucast> "Belief": Accepting something as fact despite lack of evidence.
So saying that I do NOT believe in God is NOT a belief. Fact is based on evidence, belief is based on faith. So there!
You want a list of what I know? Or what has been scientificaly proven??? You might want to find a "Time-line of physics" to begin with and read through that. Then ask some specific questions.
__________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
Gender: Male Location: Welfare Kingdom of California
I understand your first part, but the last two sentences lost me. Let me say that when you are questioning my logic is fine. The prime duty of a Philosopher is to question a thing (which is why you are doing by asking me about the ultimate nature) until the answer is provided. I dunno who will be the person that discovers the "ultimate nature" in a thing. But I'm pretty sure that person won't be sastified with just mere scientific discoveries. Ask yourself, should a thinker (Philosopher) stop thinking just because someone has found some answers? I feel that we shouldn't.
Run that by me one more time?!?! So in your definition it is the same? I guess a skillful architech or an engineer are ignorant if you want to apply it to your definition. If a skillful Artisian or an Mechanical Engineer belives that SD and Evolution is the same just because he knows little about the two theories therefore that person is an ignorant? I don't see it that way.
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Last edited by WanderingDroid on Apr 19th, 2004 at 04:52 PM
Sorry i haven't been here in awhile, Finals are in a week and time is consumed by school. Anyway, I do not feign to have prrof of Creation. I do not lie saying i have proof against Evolution. Each is, like OMega said, a theory, neither can be proven to be a law, just as i have yet to see proof that either is disproven. I doubt that, even if there were proof of evolution, i would disbelieve in Creation. I believe the Bible; i am not afraid to state this. Whether it makes me stupid, ignorant, etc. in your eyes, well, i could care less. My friend once asked me, how i could like Science and yet just blatantly disregard the facts in lieu of what the Bible says, but he realized that he was a Christian and yet blatantly disregarding what the Bible says. I believe in a young-earth. I can not see why one would desire to be descended from Apes, but that is just me. I like knowing that i was created, that there was a purpose behind me. I feel it to be insulting to me to think that i am the descendant of an animal. That is how i feel. I doubt that you will be able to change my mind, just as i doubt i will be able to change yours. So why continue this debate? Why even start this debate in the first place?
anyway, sorry to rant or get up on my soapbox there...just wanted to share.
who said we descend from them, we evolved along with them
ok. Why would a loving, omnipotent, benevolent god cause people to believe falsehoods so that he can condemn them?
Why are women treated as chattel and inferior to men throughout the Bible?
Why doesnt prayer work when the Bible promises that it will?
What is the reason of prayers? If it changes God's mind then he is not sovereign, if it does not change God's mind then it is redundant
I do not wish to argue over this, but i will answer your questions, although you, and probably everyone else, will not like the answers.
what do you mean, bring them on? i said i do not say i have either.
God doesn't 'cause' people to believe anything. People choose to believe whatever they want to believe, whether it is contrary to God's ways or not. God doesn't want people to turn from him, but people choose to turn. It is not God's fault that people turn from him; it is their own fault. If we are created with the ability to choose, then what is the point making us follow him if we cannot exercise the choice? If i were the Creator, i would want my creation to follow me of their own volition, instead of having mindless zombies just following my commands. Wouldn't you?
Women, treated as chattel? What about Ruth, Rahab, or Mary? Women were very important in both the Old and New Testaments, for women did what men would not. However, (and yes, i believe that Adam and Eve existed) Eve was created to be a helper of Adam. I don't say they are to be inferior, but the Man is (supposed to be) the head of the Household, and of the Church.
It depends on what you mean by "Why doesn't prayer work". If you mean, why can't i ask for an XBox and have it arrive the next minute, then you are not understanding the meaning of prayer. Prayer is supplication, a way to speak to God and have him help you. Your prayer may not be 'answered' in the moment that you pray it, but God doesn't let you down. Patience is required in prayer, just like in everyday life.
Prayer allows God to work in your life. God is sovereign, but you must allow him the space to move in your life, otherwise it is fruitless. You cannot ask God for help, but then not allow him the room in your life to help you. Thats the point of choice; you must both choose to ask, and choose to allow God to fulfill. Doing one or the other is fruitless.
Again, i don't want a debate, but i answered your questions.
I wasnt aiming at material goods, but it is typical for a christian to mix that one in to avoid the real issue of the question.
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God. 1 Corinthians 11:3,9
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 1 Timothy 2:11-12
Words from the scripture does the bible contradict itself or........
How could Adam and Eve ever have sinned if God had actually created them perfect, even if they did have free will. If God created them imperfect, why and how could a perfect omnipotent being create anything imperfect?
actually you didnt, but if you dont wanna debate fine. Im used to christians backing away when questioned
If they are not to be inferior, how come it's so important that it's the man who needs to be the head of house and church? Why is this hierarchy so important?
JediHDM> No, wrong! Creationism is an unproven hypothesis. Evolution is a proven theory. There is NO proof of Creation, there is plenty of proof supporting evolution.
Let me ask you this for starters: Why is that 99,99999…9% of all biologists world-wide adhere to evolution, and the only ones who claim to have proof of Creationism (which they do not, as I spend three posts proving) are LOOKING for that exact thing?
Do you claim that the biologists who have evidence of evolution are ALL wrong?
You BELIEVE in the Bible. Fine. That is your right to do so. Do you really think the Bible should be taken literally after centuries of faulty translations and religious politics dictating what should or shouldn’t BE in said book?
“I can not see why one would desire to be descended from Apes,” It has NOTHING to do with desire or want. It has to do with facts. I don’t claim to descend from apes because it’s to my liking, but because science simply states that that’s what happened.
“I like knowing that i was created, that there was a purpose behind me.”
So you believe, because you feel a need for a purpose? Well then. That still proves nothing.
Nor does it explain how light from a galaxy 2 million light-years away reached us in 6000 years.
“I feel it to be insulting to me to think that i am the descendant of an animal.” Why? Why do you look down upon your fellow creatures on Earth?
As Finti says: You claim to have proof against evolution. I ask you to show me the same respect I’ve shown you. I read the page you provided and commented it. Please read my comments to those pages and reply to those – otherwise your behaviour is exactly like that of The Force who’s managed to loose all respect within the two months or so he’s promised to show me proof of Creation – and obviously lied.
“It is not God's fault that people turn from him.” If God is omnipotent why does he allow so much terror, sorrow, war, famine, death and disater to strike his hapless children. If we are truly God’s children, should he not look out for us, like we surely look out for our own children?
If he exists and allows all this evil to happen he is truly evil. If he has the power to prevent people from being maimed, killed, tortured, raped and so on, and chooses NOT to interfere, that is an act of pure evil.
IF – on the other hand – he does NOT have this omnipotent power, then he shouldn’t be subject to worship.
Why give us the power to choose, when we can never see all the options, being lesserm, inferior creatures?
“I don't say they are to be inferior, but the Man is (supposed to be) the head of the Household, and of the Church.”
Welcome to the 21st century, JediHDM.
__________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
Gender: Female Location: lazing around and drinking lemonade
1. If, say, some great philosopher does someday discover the "ultimate truth" behind everything, or one thing, or whatever-- how does he know it's the ultimate truth if it's his job as a philosopher to question everything? From what I understand, the ultimate truth is something that can't be questioned-- it is ultimate. But if you can question everything, then you can question the ultimate truth. But-- if you can question it, the ultimate truth can't be an "ultimate" anything, can it?
2. Well, "ignorant" isn't exactly like you said... but that's kind of it, yes. You could say that an artist who knows nothing about engineering is ignorant of that information-- because they don't know it, or are uninformed about it. Though that isn't an everyday use of the word, that is what it means. For example, I am ignorant of how a Mac computer works; so I can't say crap about whether or not Windows is better than Mac. (Well, I could, but it would be rather pointless as I don't know anything about Macs to back up my claims.) Like I said, this isn't exactly practical to say-- mostly we say "I don't know something-or-other" or "I never heard something-or-other." And to just say that someone is ignorant implies that they're ignorant of everything-- it's basically implying that they don't know *anything.* Which, if you have half a brain cell, is impossible... I mean, seriously-- it is impossible to know nothing; if you know how to pick up a glass, you can't be called ignorant. *bad example*
__________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
Whoa, Omega, your comments at the end there about God beinbg evil are effectively Christianity bashing- that is over the line and was not useful to the debate.
Actually, I think this thread as a whole has crossed the line now.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
If god does exsist he wouldnt stop the war and sin and maiming and stuff in the world because then he would have taken away peoples free will and become a dictator, but the rest of what TheOmega said is true.
KMC Community Forums
Apr 17th, 2004 11:22 PM
And I dont agree with him too. It was just a note about a very religious philosopher. Wise and scholar at the XI century, but an absolute anachronism today. 
