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[SPOILER - highlight to read]: There's a lot of similarities, but it's not exactly the same. I kinda view it as a soft reboot, basically exposing a new generation to the overall theme and feeling of the OT. Obviously with some nostalgia fan bait thrown in.
And Ush, have you seen the Force Awakens? I am curious about your opinion.
I find it very funny how they just removed over 20 years of books, games etc. from canon.
__________________ Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days.
"… his name is Melkor, Lord of All, Giver of Freedeom, and he shall make you stronger than they."
Sauron to Ar-Pharazôn
Done, seen, liked it- re-posting my thoughts here:
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Ok, FINALLY seen it- trying to organise my friends these days is tricky.
Liked it a lot. Bit too much OT-styled Abrams fan-service (and yes, another planet-killing weapon is not the way I would like to have seen it) but I can live with all that- a reasonable enough plot, a well-realised villain, some good emotional moments, the sabre fights were pretty good (Abrams' comments had worried me there but he found a good middle ground between OT and PT, and Ren losing was reasonable in context) and, overall, it didn't cock anything up in the ways I was fearing it might.
In the first four lines, it mentioned Jedi needed for the balance of the Force, which means- whatever else may happen or wherever it goes- they've kept that central part of what Lucas wanted in the PT.
Han Solo dying was great emotion- set up well, executed well, meaningful for the story. The only thing that annoys me about it structurally is Han never meeting Luke. That said- no body. We'll see.
Now they have a lot to live up to, because we need a more character-focussed second part to go into the many mysteries left (who is Snoke, what happened with Ren, who is Rey and why was she abandoned, what's the full deal with Luke, and so on and so forth)- and presumably we have to have the bad guys come out on top, ESB style. Difficult to get right.
All in all, happy.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
Agree on all points, there. They did a good job but could've been a little more adventurous beyond the OT-styling. I'm all for nostalgia and homage but some things were too much.
I think that depends on if you're secretly a Skywalker or not.
I only really had one or two complaints, but they're out weighted by all the things I really enjoyed in it so I let it slide. Was such a good experience. I was on the edge of my seat for most of it.
Top five moments for me in no particular order after one viewing:
1. [SPOILER - highlight to read]: The Millennium Falcon reveal. Honestly I'd blocked out the trailer and forgot the scenes with the Falcon flying around Jakku so it being there came as a massive surprise to me, plus "That ship? It's junk." Love it.
2. [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Han and Kylo Ren on the bridge. "I need you to help me with something." It just felt awful knowing what he was referring to, while Han just genuinely wanted to help his son. Also Adam Driver must have had some balls to play the guy who murdered Han freaking Solo.
3. [SPOILER - highlight to read]: The duel between Kylo and Rey. I'd need to watch it again to get the full feel of it but I agree with Ush's statement about it being a good middle ground between PT and OT. Also I felt the fact that one was injured and the other was inexperienced really raised the stakes for me, like, it could've gone either way. I can't wait to see round two with them both at their best.
4. [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Anything Poe Dameron. Honestly that guy was great anytime he was on screen.
5. [SPOILER - highlight to read]: The chase scene in the Millennium Falcon. Loved the shots of it flying through the desert and the ruins and I really enjoyed the interaction between Rey and Finn both during and after this bit.
__________________ We shall serve the Old Ones until our dying breath. Warriors of Lustria shall not fail!
Gender: Male Location: Dreaming...Or am I living...
Since this has become a spoiler thread now. Beware all thee who have yet to watch (although with us it must be a very small, if existent, minority indeed.)
Ush:
Agreed. Although I hope that Solo is really and truly dead. (Would be worse than the retconning of Boba Fett... Also from a realistic, real world standpoint, I think the only reason they got Harrison Ford to come back was if they killed Han. I don't think he has a contract for more movies.) I don't know what you mean about Han never meeting Luke though.
I also really hope that Rey is just some random person "chosen" by the force. The prequels were far too "Small Universe." One of the strong points of the OT was that the universe felt big and vibrant. JJ seems to have embraced this idea too, which I like.
I also liked how Ren's character just attempted to embody Vader in every way including stopping blasters. (And with the risk of making the darkies TOO excited, its happened twice in the movies now. Needs to be a force power...) The saber fights seemed to be character driven as well. Finn wasn't magically good at saber fighting, Rey used it like she would use her staff-thing (she tried to poke-stab Ren a million times) and Ren was Vader-esq.
Other minor quibbles (minor...)
The force use seemed inconsistent, since when is force-interrogation a thing?
Also, how did everyone magically forget there were Jedi in a generation? People were ALIVE when the Jedi existed... But I blame that on the Prequels. JJ seems to want to be extending the timeframe between PT and OT by a bunch. I have no problem with thinking that Luke is a myth, I made my case for that earlier in this thread.
The interrogation thing I related to Vader and Luke reading each other in ROTJ. "Your thoughts betray you, father." "So, you have a sister! Your thoughts have betrayed her too." But then again, they were family.
I enjoyed the duel and that they accounted for Kylo being injured to balance things.
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Last edited by General Zink on Dec 21st, 2015 at 06:22 AM
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(TP, Rey was literally the only character in the movie to see Luke.)
I loved almost every second of this movie, and I can't wait to see it again. The only thing I hated was Han's death. It made perfect sense for the story and for real world practicality; I have no qualms there. But seeing Han Solo die HURT. I love all the main characters to some degree and Luke is a close second, but Han Solo is why I love Star Wars. I wanted to BE him as a kid. Whenever my brother and I played Star Wars, as long as I was Han Solo, I didn't care what other figures he played with.
Chewie's immediate reaction was heart-wrenching and I am SO glad that he got a shot in on Ren. I also like that Leia felt it through the Force, almost an identical reaction to Obi-Wan's in ANH to the destruction of Alderaan, but maybe only slightly more subdued. It was a nice little acknowledgement that she's carrying the Family Legacy, even though she apparently (at least for as fas as has been revealed yet) chose not to go down that path.
Also, Rey is Luke's daughter, or JJ and LK went WAY out of their way to mislead us to think she is. I'm just concerned as to the justification. Still a big universe, small world. In any other film I'd think it cheesy, but for Star Wars it works. I read a review somewhere that stated something along the lines that Star Wars exists outside of the normally accepted film conventions and storytelling rules and I agree for the most part.
Oh, and I was THIS close to being right about Finn. He was not the Force user and was just trying to be the here and even though he didn't die, he had not regained consciousness by the end of the move that we saw. He took the most vicious lightsaber hit that we've ever seen anyone survive, I think.
PS... I've not seen it anywhere else yet, but can I coin this trilogy the NT (New Trilogy).
__________________
'Jedi are at their best when things don't go as planned.' - Anakin Skywalker, whom we now know never met Andro Fenris.
Gender: Male Location: Dreaming...Or am I living...
(I got that Jazz, but I was wondering what Ush meant about "structurally")
I like NT. Lets use that.
But why would Luke abandon Rey to be a slave-orphan? At least when Obi did it he left them with a family and watched over Luke and let Leia be a princess. I doesn't seem like Obi-wan to just toss her overboard onto a desert planet and be like "Enjoy your slave existence!"
That's reasonably straight forward- they structured the plot in such a way that Luke and Han never met (they did in early versions where Luke was in from near the start).
This is because they needed to move Luke out- which was fine- but then they also wanted to kill Han, and that's still the controversial bit. It's a good scene, but I do think it's a tremendous shame for Han and Luke not to meet- such a shame that I think it might have been worth not killing Solo for.
But we'll see where the films go.
I was also happy Ewan McGregor got a line. It would be nice to expand on that a tad because they brought the rest of the main line-up back (Lando needed for the next film, of course)
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Meanwhile, we have a lot unanswered with Luke. Why has he buggered off out of it? 'He blames himself' doesn't really seem to cover why he'd sit back and let the bad guys start blowing up planets again- not to mention that "We just need to find Luke" doesn't quite work if he doesn't want to be found- what can they say that was not already said?
But then Luke left behind clues to help find him at the right time, so there's a story there. Maybe Rey is part of it.
Random theory: Luke thinks/knows his bloodline is cursed and any attempt by him to restart the Jedi will end in disaster. He needs to wait for the right person to come along to take that responsibility and finally get this Balance thing sorted.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
Last edited by Ushgarak on Dec 21st, 2015 at 06:21 PM
Gender: Male Location: Dreaming...Or am I living...
I like it. Fits into my Rey is really nobody theory/wishful thinking.
Maybe in attempting to deal with Ren, Luke fell/was about to fall, so sequestered himself so that he wouldn't do even more damage?
Because now Luke is the only one in his bloodline who hasn't fully embraced the Dark Side.
The plot was very similar to New Hope but the actors were very good. Han Solo was awesome and Rey and Finn were very good as leads.
As interesting tie-in to our games, it showed that there are more Force traditions that Jedi and Sith, such the Snoke's Order of Ren. That old alien women who was keeping Luke's saber seemed to be Force Sensitive as well, but not a Jedi.
I am not sure about antagonists - Kylo Ren was basically a Vader wannabe.
__________________ Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days.
"… his name is Melkor, Lord of All, Giver of Freedeom, and he shall make you stronger than they."
Sauron to Ar-Pharazôn
I liked Kylo Ren. I'm intrigued about what the Knights of Ren might be. We got a glimpse of them in Rey's vision, I'm assuming, with he slaughtering of the Jedi. Not that they did much. A friend and I discussed this but we felt Kylo Ren's tantrums and general angry but conflicted demeanor came across better than Anakin in the PT.
Ewan McGregor's line was cool, I hope they use him again in one of the future movies. Would like to see Yoda make an apprentice too, maybe a small one.
I feel that Rey is a Skywalker, I'd rather her be Luke's daughter as opposed to Leia's though. I like the idea of the lightsaber being passed down from father, to son, to granddaughter and it moves away from the "Evil Sibling/Good Sibling" cliche. Her innate gift with the Force screams Skywalker to me, unless there's some kind of Force related shenanigans going on we just don't know about yet.
__________________ We shall serve the Old Ones until our dying breath. Warriors of Lustria shall not fail!
Gender: Male Location: St. Marys, Ohio
United States
I missed picking up most of the dialog of Rey's vision, I was too absorbed with the visuals. An EW article Posted a few days ago reveals that Not only did we hear Ewan, we heard Mark Hamil, Frank Oz, and Alec Guiness! They snipped a sound bite of Alec saying 'afraid' to create it. That' shuts cool and I'm sorry I missed it, but I will be listening very carefully on the next viewing.
Also, I guess I heard it wrong or misremember the line, but I thought Snoke called Kylo the last of the Knights of Ren. Enough people are saying differently that I'm sure I have it wrong, but I'm curious what the actual line was. I' looking forwRd to viewing this movie over and over until it' says familiar as A New Hope.
__________________
'Jedi are at their best when things don't go as planned.' - Anakin Skywalker, whom we now know never met Andro Fenris.
I caught Frank Oz, but I thought it was just a Yoda quote from a previous film.
I'm pretty sure Snoke called him the "Master" of the Knights of Ren, but I could've misheard it. I liked the sentiment of that, handing his angsty, tantrum-throwing kid lofty titles like Anakin wanted to be put on the Council as a Master.
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Dec 19th, 2015 03:23 PM
Oh, and I was THIS close to being right about Finn. He was not the Force user and was just trying to be the here and even though he didn't die, he had not regained consciousness by the end of the move that we saw. He took the most vicious lightsaber hit that we've ever seen anyone survive, I think.
