Prime Eternal only in name...he hasn't shown me anything that would indicate that he is quite at the level of Zuras. For crying out loud he got stabbed in the chest by Apocalypse...how pathetic is that?
As for the High Evolutionary, what makes you say he couldn't hold his own with Odin if he did with Galactus.
Because he DIDN'T hold his own with Galactus. Did you even read that issue...or are you just copying what you've read on here from others? FF 175...they started out with a casual conversation, which intensified to threats, then a few blasts were exchanged, but missed, then Galactus nailed him SQUARE with an eye blast...immobilizing him and sending him into the Negative Zone.
No 'holding his own' for the Evo...I call it a clear-cut victory for Galactus.
PE Ikaris is at least equal to Zuras, who was able to battle Zeus. Zeus is an equal of Odin in terms of power. Thus PE Ikaris could hold his own against Thanos.
And you base that grand assessment on what? On the title of 'Prime Eternal'?
Well I agree Thanos putting down Thing and Thor at the same time is impressive. However, what I'm having trouble understanding is that you assume Apocalypse can't do the same.
Don't assume that I assume anything...I was merely responding to your boasting about Apocalypse being able to get past the X-Men B-team...one against six. Do you really think Thanos would have any trouble against them??
Since Apocalypse Stronger than Hulk and highly versatile he could also manage beating Thor and Thing at the same time.
When has it ever been proven that Apocalypse is stronger than the Hulk? Perhaps you refer to when he recruited Hulk to become War. Apoc was immobilizing Hulk, (who was having power fluctuations and shrapnels inside his brain), for a few seconds, while trying to tell him he just wanted to talk. Then Hulk stopped, and Apoc talked him into becoming a horseman.
Hardly a display of brute strength on the part of Apoc.
It was one-sided. Apocalypse teleported to the High Evolutionary and proceeded to lecture him on evolution while still staying several steps ahead in the fight.
Again, that was not a fight...more like a philosophical conversation, with a little sparring. The Evo even considered forcing Apoc back to continue, after he teleported away, but considered it to be a waste of time.
I didn't say Thanos couldn't beat PE Ikaris, Thanos probaly could, but he couldn't easily dominate him.
Why not?
The Silver Surfer is powerful, but I doubt he could humiliate Apocalypse. Since Apocalypse is so versatile he could adapt to the way the Surfer fights.
Yet he can't adapt to the way Cyclops fights...you really think he stands any chance against the Silver Surfer?!? What the hell are you smoking?
I'm not so sure since Apocalypse when he is healthy is as versatile as you can get. Odin probably would have a hard time hitting Apocalypse since he can easily shift his body to maneuver around any attack.
Laughable statement, to say the least. Considering Cyclops was able to optic blast him into submission, Odin should have absolutely no trouble. Apocalypse had trouble fighting Loki, and was only able to contain him with the help of Caliban. You really think he's on par with Odin?
In 5,000 years Apocalypse has accomplished a lot such as periodically through history altering beings in order to become future henchmen. Apocalypse is responsible for Mr. Sinister, Exodus, Ozymandias, and Archangel each from a different part of human history. Apocalypse also takes over the world for over a thousand years in the future.
So he's a mad scientist...big deal. Who isn't? He isn't even half as accomplished as Dr. Doom...who has even toyed with Ultron...making him his thrall...a guy that could probably give old blue lips a run for his money.
As for Apocalypse having incalculable strength , his strength is definitely incalculable. However, Thanos, Morg, Angry Hulk, Gladiator, Hercules to name a few all have incalculable strength. But, since Apocalypse can change his size, density, and composition Apocalypse could raise his strength to an even higher degree than the ones mentioned.
Sheer speculation on your part.
Apocalypse does overcome virtually any and everything put in his way.
Except a well placed optic blast.
I'm not convinced since Thanos under his own power is impressive.
Then you obviously haven't read much Thanos over the years. Drop that silly X-book and read something more interesting. Read 'Thanos Quest'...which many people regard as his shining moment...where went on his mission to collect the Infinity Gems. Going toe-to-toe with Tyrant and Odin were also under his own power. It must really get under the skin of X-fanboys that Apocalypse has not been given the same attention and respect.
But, what you might be referring to is when he had the Infinity Gauntlet, the Heart of the Universe, etc. Which doesn't qualify as saying he's the stronger villain.
I made no mention of Infinity Gauntlet, or HoTU. Nice try.
I said I could see Apocalypse loosing to Darkseid's omega effect, which wipes people out of existence. But, if Darkseid doesn't use it than Apocalypse would dominate him.
O-k...whatever you say.
Once again you've proven that you don't know jack about the subject at hand.
Thanks for playing...call me when you're ready for another round.
Then how come he had no qualms about slapping him (and Drax) at the same time? What you conveniently neglect to mention is that he said infamous line during 'Thanos Quest'...before the 'Infinity Gauntlet'. Ask him today and I highly doubt he's afraid of anybody. Good try, come again.
Maybe. Who knows.
Dude, you're a tool.
Last edited by Lord S on Oct 7th, 2005 at 11:46 AM
i dont understand if apocalypse is everythin people SAY he is than why doiesnt he change himself into the ultimate nullifier or sumthin and destroy the abstracts, i mean its JUST A GADGET
i dont understand if apocalypse is everythin people SAY he is than why doiesnt he change himself into the ultimate nullifier or sumthin and destroy the abstracts, i mean its JUST A GADGET and apoc SHOULD be able to copy it right down to the molecule, why is THE GREAT APOCALYPSE FORCED TO TURN HIS HANDS INTO GIANT DRILL WHEN HE CAN JUST TURN HIS ENTIRE FREAKIN BODY INTO A PHOTON GUN?! give it up people apoc is never gonna beat thanos!
Prime Eternal only in name...he hasn't shown me anything that would indicate that he is quite at the level of Zuras. For crying out loud he got stabbed in the chest by Apocalypse...how pathetic is that?
I wouldn't say pathetic since Apocalypse did once get the better of the High Evolutionary. If Apocalypse can get the better of The Evolutionary then he could also manage the same with Ikaris.
Because he DIDN'T hold his own with Galactus. Did you even read that issue...or are you just copying what you've read on here from others? FF 175...they started out with a casual conversation, which intensified to threats, then a few blasts were exchanged, but missed, then Galactus nailed him SQUARE with an eye blast...immobilizing him and sending him into the Negative Zone.
No 'holding his own' for the Evo...I call it a clear-cut victory for Galactus.
Yes, I did read the issue. Continuing the High Evolutionary returned from the Negative Zone. Then the High Evolutionary Evolved Galactus beyond needing a body. Which kept Galactus from dying in that issue also. I never said the Evolutionary is equal to Galactus, but Galactus only sent the High Evolutionary to the Negative Zone. Sending the High Evolutionary to the Negative Zone doesn't mean a clear-cut victory.
Don't assume that I assume anything...I was merely responding to your boasting about Apocalypse being able to get past the X-Men B-team...one against six. Do you really think Thanos would have any trouble against them??
Apparently you do assume too much since you assume I'm ignorant of Thanos and his showings. Thanos could get past six X-men, however what made my statement about Apocalypse going through six X-men a feat was that Apocalypse was in severely weakened state.
When has it ever been proven that Apocalypse is stronger than the Hulk? Perhaps you refer to when he recruited Hulk to become War. Apoc was immobilizing Hulk, (who was having power fluctuations and shrapnels inside his brain), for a few seconds, while trying to tell him he just wanted to talk. Then Hulk stopped, and Apoc talked him into becoming a horseman.
Hardly a display of brute strength on the part of Apoc.
Yes, it was in Hulk #456 where the Hulk was easily manhandled by Apocalypse. I suggest you reread the issue, because the Hulk was being overwhelmed until Hulk asked Apocalypse to let him go. Apocalypse let him go, but told Hulk that he was now in the service of Apocalypse. So either through force or not Hulk was becoming Apocalypse's horseman.
Why not?
Thanos under his own power is the most powerful Eternal considering Zuras is dead. However, since Ikaris is now Prime Eternal his normal abilities have been increased. The level of Ikaris's control of cosmic energy has increased, and he could also increase his strength with his new levels. In addition Ikaris has the advantage in agility, and is a very well developed hand to hand fighter. So I think Ikaris could hold his own against Thanos.
So he's a mad scientist...big deal. Who isn't? He isn't even half as accomplished as Dr. Doom...who has even toyed with Ultron...making him his thrall...a guy that could probably give old blue lips a run for his money.
Apocalypse is far more accomplished than Dr. Doom as a mad scientist. Since Apocalypse doesn't just toy with his creations but personalizes them. Literally, like how he gave Archangel blue skin and metal wings. However, when it comes to mad scientist Mr. Sinister embodies the concept of mad scientist.
Ultron could give Apocalypse a run for his money?
Explain!
Yet he can't adapt to the way Cyclops fights...you really think he stands any chance against the Silver Surfer?!? What the hell are you smoking?
All you keep referring to is low showings of Apocalypse. In X-factor#68 Apocalypse was blasted with the combined power of Jean Grey, Cable, and Cyclops. Why else would his optic blast be so powerful. However, that being said Apocalypse was in a weakened state since he was stationary and could only fire blast at the Inhumans and X-factor. But, under normal conditions Apocalypse could handle cyclops easily as he did in the early issues of X-factor.
Laughable statement, to say the least. Considering Cyclops was able to optic blast him into submission, Odin should have absolutely no trouble. Apocalypse had trouble fighting Loki, and was only able to contain him with the help of Caliban. You really think he's on par with Odin?
Again! you have to resort to using Cyclops's optic blast, which wasn't only his power but a combined effort of Jean Grey, Cable, and Cyclops.
In addition Apocalypse was weakened, not at normal levels in which he could utilize his many abilities. The battle in X-factor#50 in which Apocalypse saw through Loki's disguise.
Loki may not be as powerful Odin and Thor. However, Loki is highly intelligent and sneaky, since he managed to manipulate the Surfer in Surfer#4. Loki's deceptiveness could make him a threat to lots of people. So despite Loki not having as much raw power as Thor and Odin, he manages through his trickery.
Sheer speculation on your part.
How is it sheer speculation since all the people mentioned have Incalculable strength one way or another. However, each have to use some kind of power as a means to reach the higher levels of strength. However, since Apocalypse has complete control of his atomic structure he could shift his strength to high levels as well as adjusting his body to compliment the strength increase. Which none of the others listed could do, thus they would reach their limit in strength before the Apocalypse.
Example Apocalypse easily overpowering a struggling Hulk in Hulk#456
Except a well placed optic blast.
Yet again referring to the same issue, which the Optic blast was powered by three people that resulted in a retreat by Apocalypse.
Then you obviously haven't read much Thanos over the years. Drop that silly X-book and read something more interesting. Read 'Thanos Quest'...which many people regard as his shining moment...where went on his mission to collect the Infinity Gems. Going toe-to-toe with Tyrant and Odin were also under his own power. It must really get under the skin of X-fanboys that Apocalypse has not been given the same attention and respect.
So you assume I'm and X-fanboy and not aware of Thanos story lines.
I own Thanos Quest, Cosmic Powers #6, and Warlock and the Infinity Watch #25, which were all excellent issues. That why I decided to own them in my collection. But, I agree Thanos Quest was impressive since Thanos humiliated Champion of the Universe and the Grandmaster.
O-k...whatever you say.
Once again you've proven that you don't know jack about the subject at hand.
Thanks for playing...call me when you're ready for another round.
.
Well, for one Darkseid's power let him erase people from existence so it could erase anyone short of Galactus. Since in the Crossover Galactus was completely unaffected by the Omega Effect. However, if Thanos is still banned from Death's Realm than even the Omega Effect may not work. However, normal Thanos under his own power would succumb to the the Omega Effect.
Lets get real here......Thanos is marvels most powerful cosmic villain, he is smarter than apoc, stronger,and far more the tactician, show me what Apoc has done to prove he is better than thanos....and that he is stronger, apoc isnt even the strongest mutant so how is he going to beat someone who is above herald level
__________________ Cap was my hero
Fanboys i PwNXoRZ!: A.W.,Riceroost,Rewmac,Mr HeavySilence,Rotiart....
Look we have to make some clear here. In X-Factor 68, Cyclops himself said he, other X-Factor plus Black Bolt scream, he said we shot with everything we got at Apocalypse, doing absolutely nothing, Apocalypse has unmacthable supremacy. So Cyclops first shot with everyhing he got doing nothiing and being a joke to Apocalypse, and with help of others, including Black Bolt, but then few minute later, suddenly he had enough power to defeat Apocalypse. No, they linked as one, Jean, Cable and Cyclops, they linked as full combined powers of those three, which Cyclops shot with blast, combined powers of those three. They defeated Apocalypse, Apocalypse wasnt moved and telepored away, he became weakened, he was defeated.
when he became god????, he was so smart asnd manipulative that he ruled a universe with an iron first, without any sort of backlash really.....and chose to give it up....
__________________ Cap was my hero
Fanboys i PwNXoRZ!: A.W.,Riceroost,Rewmac,Mr HeavySilence,Rotiart....
Give me God power and I will be able to rule it to. I wouldnt understand a power I would have or would be I being that could control it, but would still have the power to overpower anyone. Thanos also discovered he is a being that could never understand a power he had.
it didnt mattert that he couldnt understand it, he defeated eternity, thew only person who stopped thanos was trhanos, meaning that Apoc ius no match for him he is out of his league.
__________________ Cap was my hero
Fanboys i PwNXoRZ!: A.W.,Riceroost,Rewmac,Mr HeavySilence,Rotiart....
You are giving example when he was almighty. He also defeated Living Tribunal. He was way out of anyone league. Eternity is now way out of Thanos league.
in that particular series he did not defeat the tribunal, but.....he was almighty not because of some plot, but because he is a savage who took the universe over by tactical methods, all this shows is what thanos is capable of.....
__________________ Cap was my hero
Fanboys i PwNXoRZ!: A.W.,Riceroost,Rewmac,Mr HeavySilence,Rotiart....
Anyway in that storyline he defeated everyone including LT like they were ants. He was almighty not beacuse he was savage, but because he got almighty powers from Heart of the Universe. He didnt take over the universe by tactical methods, but by pure brute power who no one could oppose. He didnt need tactical methods with such power, actully there wasnt even 1% of tactcal methods when he took over the universe, only brute power. He didnt even take over the universe, but destroyed it.
__________________
Last edited by Xplosive on Oct 9th, 2005 at 10:44 AM
LT chose not to participate in thye battle read your shit again and then holla at a playa.2- Thanos had a master plan and he was tactical he is always tactical if you read him in the infinity abyss, it will show you how smart he is, he has plans for everything and is the most dangerous man in the universe. and LT works for TOAA meaning he is stronger than the Gauntlet.....get your shit together mutie.
__________________ Cap was my hero
Fanboys i PwNXoRZ!: A.W.,Riceroost,Rewmac,Mr HeavySilence,Rotiart....
WTF are you talking about. I am talking about Thanos: End, when he destroyed everyone, also Living Tribunal was ****ing destroyed, WTF and that he destroyed universe without breaking a sweat wihtou any tactical method but with brute force. LT is stronger than IG, but not than HOTU. You said God power, with IG he didnt have God pwoer, but with HOTU and he destroyed LT like it was nothihg.
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Oct 7th, 2005 11:42 AM
Cap was my hero
