Yea, well i guess most of them will be takign quotes from the funi dub, which is even worse than the anime, which STILL isn't right, damn toei.
Goku said he could PROBABLY beat Fat Buu, and beat Kid Buu is he got to full power but, he said he CAN'T beat Super Buu 1, what makes you think he could beat Super Buu 2, let alone 3? Now if he can't beat any of the Super Buu's but thinks he could beat Kid Buu how is there any chance whatsoever that Kid Buu is stronger than Super Buu?
Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu? Wanna know why? Well I'm telling you anyway.
Well firstly, it's pretty much stated. Super Buu with Piccolo and Gotenks absorbed stated that he was "The Mightyest Majin". He knew about his original Kid Buu form.
Now for a step by step guide...
Okay, from facts in the Manga it's shown that Kid Buu first absorbed South Supreme Kai (Note I'm using the Funimation names for you). He's stated to be the strongest of all the Kaioshin's (Including Dai Kaio). This created the form "Buff Buu". He was much stronger than Kid Buu, and even a bit stronger than Super Buu.
Now, a while after that Buff Buu met up with Dai Kaio, he absorbed him but because Dai Kaio was pure good it weakened him heavily and changed his personality. This was Fat Buu. His power fluctuates with his emotions so he can go from being weaker than Kid Buu to being stronger than him (When he's Angry he is stronger).
Then came the moment Puppy Bee died. This angered Fat Buu to the point his power could not rise anymore. His anger and hate were so strong it created a physical manifestation of itself. So what we have now is "Grey Buu" (Who is stated to gain most of Fat Buu's power) and "Mr. Buu" (Who is less than half the power of Fat Buu).
Now Grey Buu beats up Mr. Buu really bad (There's evidence that he's as strong as, or stronger than Kid Buu) and eats him. The two parts of Buu recombined and formed "Super Buu". He is almost entirely Evil, and has only a tiny restriction on his power (Note that he still has South Supreme Kai's power in him).
Now Super Buu goes on his way, fighting SSj3 Gotenks (Who is stronger than Goku) and Chou Gohan (Also stronger than Goku, ask me after if you want evidence). Knowing that Gohan is stronger than him, he ends up absorbing SSj3 Gotenks and Piccolo. His "Mightyiest Majin" line fits in here somwhere. After absorbing Gotenks he is MUCH stronger than Gohan, he just toys with him. This where Goku comes in. In the Anime you may see Goku fighting pretty evenly with Super Buu 2, but in the Manga (The original source for all things Dragonball) there is no fight, Goku just powers up to SSj3 and Super Buu 2 punches him. Goku just puts up his arms and tries to survive. Gotenks then defuses (Inside Buu) and Goku states that Gohan can beat Buu now (He makes no mention of himself being able to beat Buu).
Super Buu then absorbs Gohan, scaring the **** out of Goku, he is pure fear. He even considers permanently with Mr. Satan just to try and stand a chance against Buu. But luckily Goku senses Vegeta's Ki and Instant Transmissions there. Unluckly Buu is so fast he gets there moments after Goku. Goku talks Vegeta into fusing (There is no fight between Vegeta, Goku and Super Buu 3, they fuse straight away).
Then Vegitto is born, he goes SSj2 instantly (The fight between Base Vegitto and Super Buu 3 is filler). He beats the crap out of Buu until he gets absrobed on purpose. Now inside Buu, there's a very important line.
After pulling out all of the people pods, Super Buu reverts to his normal form. Vegeta suggest going out and fighting him but Goku says: "Dont! Even though he's back to normal, he's still far too strong for us! If we leave, he'll be sure to win!".
Then all the crap with Kid Buu happens. remember when Goku and Vegeta were laughing at Kid Buu due to his size and power? They even fought him without fusion. Goku was beating him and he couldn't even reach the FPSSj3 (What he was using to fight Fat Buu).
Lol, The Manga is so different to the TV...............
Ok.......
SSj3 Gotenks IS weaker that SSJ3 Goku. You can see this because when SSJ3 Gotenks was fighting SuperBuu he was finding it hard. And he lost againts him. SSJ3 Goku was putting up a very good fight againts Kid Buu whats much Stronger than SUper Buu.
And Chou Gohan (Mystic Gohan) Is not Stronger that Goku because Hes not as powerful and a SSJ3 Goku is he? It didnt really put up a good fight againts SuperBuu. I dont know how u can say a SSJ3 and loose to Gohan...
And Vegetto doesnt even go SSJ2, He only goes SSJ againts Buu, If he did go SSJ2, he could of beating him. And the Portia Earing didnt get distroyed, The just dissapeared after Buu absorbed them both.
Please can you tell us why you think Gohan Is Stronger than SSJ3Goku?
Not by using the old Manga stuff, on here its the TV stuff
Lol, The Manga is so different to the TV...............
The Manga is the original. It was created by Akira Toriyama. While the show is very close to the Manga, things are added to "fill" up the space and make every episode last as long as it should. Unfortunately sometimes they add things that don't make sense. I.e. SSj3 Goku fighting Super Buu or the Humans on King Kai's planet beating the Ginyu force.
And you must understand that the Anime you watch is even worse. When it was translated to English, some of the lines were changed, sometimes making characters seem stronger than they are (People like Kid Buu and SSj3 Goku).
SSj3 Gotenks IS weaker that SSJ3 Goku. You can see this because when SSJ3 Gotenks was fighting SuperBuu he was finding it hard. And he lost againts him. SSJ3 Goku was putting up a very good fight againts Kid Buu whats much Stronger than SUper Buu.
Well firstly, lets go back to Goku's fight with Fat Buu, he was winning, was he not? At that point Goku was dead so he could use his full power SSj3, but Fat Buu was just playing about at the time. Goku states to Piccolo that he was unsure if he could beat Fat Buu. But Goku has 100% faith that a fusion of Goten and Trunks could beat Fat Buu, and this was before they could go SSj3. They fight Fat Buu in base, and although they are defeated they are strong enough to hold out for almost 30 minutes, something Majin SSj2 Vegeta couldn't do. They are also fast enough to escape from Buu, something not even SSj2 Gohan could do.
Then the boys train in the RoSaT and become SSj3. They then toy around with Super Buu (A form Goku admitted he couldn't beat even with Vegeta's help). Gotenks was about to finish Super Buu, but the fusion wore off before he could use his final attack.
So...
SSj3 Gotenks>>Super Buu. (Shown in Manga and Anime)
Super Buu>> FPSSj3 Goku and SSj2 Vegeta (Stated by Goku in Manga and Anime)
And...
SSj Gotenks>>Fat Buu
FPSSj3 Goku>>Fat Buu
And Chou Gohan (Mystic Gohan) Is not Stronger that Goku because Hes not as powerful and a SSJ3 Goku is he? It didnt really put up a good fight againts SuperBuu. I dont know how u can say a SSJ3 and loose to Gohan...
I could simply state that Gohan is stronger than Gotenks, and since I've already proven Gotenks> Goku i could leave it at that. But I'll explain.
Chou Gohan kicked the snot out of Super Buu, Super Buu couldn't even land a hit. Chou Gohan is Gohan at his max potential. It's explained many times that Gohan's potential is the highest in the series. Chou Gohan is the strongest unfused fighter in the Show/Manga.
You seem to think that SSj3 is unbeatable yet we know SSj2 Vegitto>SSj3 Goku. And Goku is amazed at the power Gohan has, why would he be amazed if he was still weaker than SSj3 Goku?
And Vegetto doesnt even go SSJ2, He only goes SSJ againts Buu, If he did go SSJ2, he could of beating him. And the Portia Earing didnt get distroyed, The just dissapeared after Buu absorbed them both.
Vegitto does go SSj2. When he transforms in the Manga he has electricity in his aura. In the Manga electricity always means SSj2/3. And he was beating Super Buu 3. He got absorbed on purpose. And the Potara didn't dissapear. Vegeta crushed them. Thats in the Manga and Show. You must not have watched that bit in a long time or something.
Not by using the old Manga stuff, on here its the TV stuff
Most of what I've explained is found in the Tv series, especially the Japanese version.
Well, he's right, regardless of what you can attempt to prove. The manga is the original, with no lines messed up in translation, and no dumb filler that doesn't make sense *refers to above comment on how Pikkon>Perfect Cell>SSJ Goku>Pikkon>Perfect Cell>SSJ Goku, etc etc...*
Ah, the good-old fashioned "Super Buu 3 vs Kid Buu" thread. Tragically, people seem to think that Kid Buu is stronger than Super Buu 3; this is much like claiming that Nappa could beat Perfect Cell.
In the manga it's made very clear that Super Buu - without any absorptions - is much stronger than FPSSJ3 Goku. While inside Buu's body, after removing the pods, Vegeta says: "Now, let's blow a hole and escape from here", only to have Goku reply: "Even though his power has gone down, he's too strong for both of us. This is your fault for destroying the Potara!" (Potara = fusion earrings, for the dubbites in the audience.)
Goku is stated to be able to kill Kid Buu with ease at his full power SSJ3. Vegeta tells him "With the full power of SSJ3, you'll beat him certainly!", and both Goku and Vegeta relax and even smile when Kid Buu emerges from Buff Buu, who they were terrified of.
With this in place, it's obvious enough that Super Buu 3 is leagues beyond Kid Buu. However, let's not stop there with the proof. Super Buu 2 says "I am the mightiest Majin!", and as Super Buu later proves inside himself as Vegeta reaches for Mr. Buu's pod, he is well aware of the existence of Kid Buu. Why didn't Super Buu say he was the mightiest Majin? Because Buff Buu is stronger than Super Buu, as he has none of Dai Kaioshin's influence.
When Goku arrives on Earth to help Gohan fight Super Buu 2, he's not doing it by going SSJ3 and beating him, as you mostly seem to think he can. No, he's there to fuse with Gohan. Why? Because Super Buu 2 is far, far, far beyond Goku, and as shown, is stronger than Gohan as well. Super Buu 2 is already shown without doubt to be stronger than Kid Buu.
Later on, when Super Buu 3 is born, Goku is considering fusing with Mr. Satan/Hercule. And you think Kid Buu is stronger than Super Buu 3? When Goku refused to fuse with Vegeta to fight Kid Buu, but was a second away from fusing with Mr. Satan PERMANENTLY to fight Super Buu 3? There's no way you can deny that Super Buu 3 and Super Buu 2 are stronger than Kid Buu. To do so is to ignore the obvious.
When fighting Fat Buu, Goku admits to Piccolo that "Majin Buu's power is incredible. I'm not sure I could have beaten him." Compare this to his later reaction against Kid Buu, where he's confident he can beat the stuffing out of him. However, he then tries to power up to the level he used previously, and SSJ3 fails. He realises he can't go FPSSJ3 while dead, and now the level that he wasn't sure could beat Fat Buu is unavailable to him - yet his weakened SSJ3 goes dead even with Kid Buu. Kid Buu looks less powerful by the minute, doesn't he?
Kid Buu faces off against Mr. Buu, the pure-good fat Buu who lost most of his power went splitting from Fat Buu. In the manga, it's said "Most of the power went to the Evil Buu", and given the beating Mr. Buu got from his grey counterpart, I'd say it's pretty clear Evil Buu got the vast majority. Yet Mr. Buu is able to fight Kid Buu long enough to give Goku time to form the Genki Dama. Evil Buu took down Mr. Buu in a few minutes. Evil Buu and Mr. Buu are both parts of Fat Buu. These two combined are Fat Buu. Kid Buu can't be stronger than Fat Buu.
Now on to another fact that people get wrong. So many people say "When Super Buu 2 (Buu w/Gotenks+Piccolo) defused to Super Buu 1.5 (Buu w/Goten+Trunks+Piccolo), Goku said that he could beat him!" This is both the dub and misunderstanding at work. The original line is: "Gohan can beat you now himself, without the Fusion." Goku says nothing about fighting Super Buu. Seeing as he says he can't beat Super Buu without any absorptions whatosever, I highly doubt he can beat Super Buu with Piccolo, Goten and Trunks. And he never claims that he can.
The correct power of Majin Buu:
Super Buu 3 (Buu w/Gohan/Goten/Trunks/Piccolo)
Super Buu 2 (Buu w/Gotenks/Piccolo)
Buff Buu (South Kaioshin dominant)
Super Buu 1.5 (Buu w/Piccolo/Goten/Trunks)
Super Buu (Buu w/Dai Kaioshin influence reduced)
Fat Buu (Buu influenced by Dai Kaioshin)
Evil Buu (Pure evil from Fat Buu)
Kid Buu (Kid Buu's original form, created by Bibidi)
Mr. Buu (Pure good from Fat Buu)
Okay, now to handle the inevitable people who think the anime or the dub are somehow better than the manga.
The manga is to Dragonball like the Lord of the Rings novels are to the movies. You can go watch the movies and enjoy them, but don't think that the additions and removals became fact. Legolas never did take down an elephant acrobatics-style in the Lord of the Rings, it was just in the movie for added kicks. And that's where Toei comes in.
Akira Toriyama's manga was adapted by Toei as an anime. Toei, needing to give Akira Toriyama space to draw, added "filler" from their animators to close up the gaps. Much of the filler is simply the extended staring and twitching that happens when two fighters are battling near a bunch of weaker ones. Some of it is various things the animators slapped together. This filler is what confuses you all in regards to Majin Buu.
Some scenes added by the animators include:
* Goku fighting any form of Super Buu
* Goku saying "You're much stronger than all the other Majin Buus" to Kid Buu
* Tenshinhan, Yamcha and Chaotsu beating the Ginyu Force, each one far stronger than Vegeta on Earth, after only having trained on Kaio's Planet for several days
* Vegeta fighting Gotenks and Piccolo inside Buu's mind
* Goku fighting Gohan inside Buu's mind
* Vegeta destroying Arlia with his finger
* The Heavens Tournament, featuring Pikkon and his incredible ability to beat Super Perfect Cell in one hit
* The Garlic Jr Saga
Basically, if it doesn't make sense, like the above, it's because Akira didn't add it. A bunch of Toei workers did. Toei don't know Dragonball, they're just there to make it into an anime. When they don't have enough manga material they make their own. This makes for entertaining viewing but NOT for facts.
Finally, the dub. Ah, Funimation. It should be obvious that the dub is no source at all. Here's just a select few mistakes the dub made, and there are a lot:
* Vegeta claims that Bardock was a scientist
* Goku decides that Vegeta was the one who stepped on his grandfather
* Frieza was using 1% power against Goku (it's said to be 33%)
* Recoome being an android
* Goku realises that Vegeta was only "bad because Frieza made him be bad" - in actual fact, he said that he'd hated Vegeta but respected his Saiyajin Pride, but that's too hardcore for Funi
* In response to "Does that mean Gotenks is stronger than you?", Goku saying "No, I can do that too", when the original lines were "Is that Fusion?", "No, that's SSJ3! The boys have completedly mastered it! I'm impressed!"
* Goten saying that Super Buu was equal to Gotenks, even though they'd just beat the crap out of aforesaid Super Buu
* Kaioshin saying "This is the strongest Buu of all!" in regards to Kid Buu
Do I have to go on? You get the picture. Toei and Funimation know just as much about Dragonball as the next person you meet on the street. Akira Toriyama invented Dragonball. He IS Dragonball. If his manga says it, it's fact. If Toei's animators and a guy at Funimation who translates from Japanese and then changes things around say it, it's not fact. And the manga says this:
Kid Buu is nowhere, not even CLOSE, to Super Buu 3.
This is the end of my long message.
Last edited by Kujila on Jun 8th, 2004 at 04:14 AM
Haha, thats basically all there is to it kids, but even in the anime Super Buu 2 says he is more powerful than ever before, how can he be weaker that Kid Buu but the strongest Buu yet? He is well aware of Kid Buu in the anime also, and Kid Bu came before Super Buu 2, flaw in logic much?
And yea cheesus i meant me, my bad, funny how i tried to call myself educated at the same time, sorry got my law exam coming up and thats kinda occupyign mroe of my mind at the mo... wow im gonna stop making excuses...
KMC Community Forums
Jun 7th, 2004 09:19 AM
Attachment: 
