i tihnk batman would kill punisher prep time or no prep time....he's too smart if he can outsmart the whole justice league he can outsmart the punisher, and batman is no slouch in hand to hand combat neither
ok, i just showed you that Punisher can take out the Marvel Universe, and you still think Batman can kill him easily, just by outsmarting him? it takes some brains and research to find out how to kill all those heroes and villains.
The "Punisher Kills The Marvel Universe" was written by Garth Ennis, correct? He HATES heroes. Get my drift...? I would not interpret that as The Punisher being ABLE to take out the Marvel Universe. More like IF he could, this is how it could be done...
Punisher also tangled with Wolverine a few times (two that I recall). Call it a draw the first time. Second time? Wolverine gave it to him.
If drawing a comparison between Hitman, Lobo and Batman...yes, Lobo broke Batman's back, but that is not really fair considering Batman had spent most of his energy chasing down the inhabitants of Arkham Asylum.
With or without prep time, I would vote for Batman.
I pretty much 100% go along with that. Im never to thorough in my post's but thats exactly how "what if" PKTMU should be interpreted.
If punisher was inteding on killing the marvel universe thats how it could be done. but Im sure if he tried by the time he killed two genuine hero's every body would be out for his head
and by Lobo I ment you have this insanely powerfull psycho who gave superman a run for his money "how I dont know, I was never really impressed by Lobo" and Hitman makes him look like a complete fool.
put it this way it has somthing to do with Lobo a guy in a dress and a video tape.
pretty much I was trying to get across a well laid battle plan can go a long way. of course Bat's is THEE strategist with prep time, I think with out prep-time Punisher can think lighter on his feet strategy wise. but thats just my theory
and have you read the new Punisher Never? number 16 I think.....
Punisher evens the score with Wolvie. I thought It was a decent read conisdering Marvels "new mature readers" thing.
of course, i know that. that's why i stated that it was out of continuity blah blah blah...it was still a great comic.
Lobo broke Batman's back? i thought that was Bane...? actually, im pretty sure it was Bane, i saw the cover to the comic recently, but havent read it yet.
I agree with most of Austinzillas list too, but I think Plasticman takes Reed Richards (I know, probably the least important matchup). I just think Plastic Man has abilitys that far surpass Mr.Fantastic. Richards can stretch, but Plastic Man can contort into some mind bending manners. I've read a few times that there was a JLA book in which Batman whispered to Superman something to the affect of "You know he could kill us all, dont you?". I will look for the issue number and exact quote later. Definatly not a favorite character of mine and i've never read much with him in it, but the possibilities could be endless.
I also agree with Never that Batman takes the Punisher regardless of prep time. Better fighter, better preperation, better gadgets, better everything in my opinion. Castle could get lucky though.
UGGGGH...I fugged up the names. BANE broke Batman's back, not Lobo - and yes, Lobo was SICK. Hitman did that to him? I am not familiar with Hitman, but in the JLA vs. Avengers crossover Lobo was taken down by the Shi'ar (sp) legion, I think? It was after a LONG fight and he killed quite a few. Then there was an Authority crossover when he simply laughed at their God and slaughtered The Authority (that's my squad), if I recall correctly...yeah yeah, in his old incarnation (I think they downgraded him?) he would multiply if one drop of blood was shed. This the guy we are using?
And I am starting to wonder if Batman is peerless with prep time. I am no longer certain. Dr. Doom defeated Silver Surfer with prep. Black Panther devised a battle plan to defeat Galactus (which is why I kept saying "don't sleep on Black Panther" a few months ago). Even Iron Man has a pretty deep pool of resources from which to draw. Maybe he is almost peerless in the DCU (save Darkseid), but Marvel has some pretty damn good strategists themselves.
Will have to check out that Punisher. In the issue where Wolverine laid him out...well, I cheated a little bit The author was a tad annoyed that ANOTHER writer let Punisher stalemate Wolverine, so his story arc had Wolverine touch him up pretty nicely.
Do people realize how OFTEN this happens in comics? I hate when it does considering it can totally skew our perspectives of a character's fighting ability.
We can now agree to disagree on battles without 10 page flamefests, yes Venomfan?
Arachnoid (I got the name right THIS time...finally), agreed that Mr. Fantastic is one of the most brilliant men in the Marvel Universe, but most often that is away from the battlefield, right? I'd have to do some heavy research on his strategic ability in the heat of the moment WHILE fighting (we know he can come up with plans when allowed to sit and think - for example, creating a way to channel energy (Human Torch, Photon (Captain Marvel then) to Iron Man to blast out in Secret Wars #4), but is he good at thinking on his feet while fighting, a la Captain America?
Richards thinking on his feet...well i assume he can do it, because i've read that he is constantly observing and analyzing his surroundings, its just the way he thinks. he doesnt stop thinking about science and analyzing things for a moment, whether he is in battle or not...but as always, i have to go digging through my crates to find the comic.
Granted, and I dont want to get into a great debate about it, but Reed usually needs a bit of that old prep time to use his brain. He has his moments, but for the most part, from all of the FF comics i've read over the years, he seems to be the whipping boy when they go into battle. Again, I dont claim to be a great Plastic Man fan or authority, but I do find him interesting. I just recently read that he's not even human anymore (dont know the extent of that) and that he actually laid in pieces on the ocean floor for a extended period of time. Pretty wild powers. Reed has limits and i'm wondering if Plastic Man does not. Whatever, no big deal.
I suppose. I wasnt really going full throttle for Frank anyhow. I just think he had a signifacant chance of winning
and about Lobo, yeah it's that crazy guy who cant be killed and is uber strong. and Hitman is thee diet coke*I love that term* of Punisher.
but he literally made Lobo look Handicapped. basically he LET Lobo kill the mafia guys who were chasing Hitman and after he finished them off Hitman lured Lobo into a junkyard and dropped a giant magnet on him, while he was dazed some events took place that when Lobo tried to get even Hitman threatend to show the tape to the JLA and Lobo nearly wet himself and left.
i get the feeling that Garth Ennis portrayed Lobo wrongly, just because he is more of a fan of the assasin/gunner type heros. what confuses me, is that Lobo IS an assasin/gunner. why exaggerate his arrogance? Lobo does not walk into bars and let the whole building know he is there. he is arrogant to people who are talking to him, but he doesnt start shit for no reason. Lobo is the bully when people are keeping him from what he wants, i.e. he was an a$$hole in heaven(Lobo's Back mini series) simply because he wanted to get home. Lobo is the type of character who just doesn't care enough about other people to start fights for nothing. Now, if someone where to start a fight with him(which is what usually happens) he will be arrogant and go into the whole "Lobo is th' Main Man! You can't kill me! I'm a fraggin' bastich!" speech.
Ennis is a great Punisher writer, but i hate the way is is biased.
Just my personal opinion and a little bit of a thread breaker, but that Punisher #16 book kind of sucked. I realize that it got its point across with the Punisher having Wolverine on the ropes, but theres a few things that didnt sit right with me.
1st- The shotgun blast to the face. Funny how Wolverines entire face is gone, but yet his eyes are still intact. Does Wolverine have admantium eyelids too? Small pick, but a little realism would be nice.
2nd- Wolverine just got his face blown off and yet he takes a baseball bat smack to the nads and is down for the count. I've seen the character take alot worse than that and shrug it off. Writers choice I suppose.
3rd- The story itself was interesting, but the ending blew it. A bunch of sawed off gangsters gathering to take the Punisher and Wolverine? It just turned into a Lobo comic at that point.
batman will lose to the punisher!!! the punisher is faster, and can kill anyone, besides, batman wouldn't have the bat-computer with him in a fight, he would run away and use the computer, he would never reach the cave, punisher has perfect aim, batman would die!!!!!
Plus, batman has been around for about 80 years (or something like that). He is only a human, with no special powers, so he would be way too old to fight now.
80 years?? Batman was created in the 40s. besides that, in every comic he is basically the same age, characters dont get older. havent you noticed? Punisher and Batman are about the same age.