After the Buu Saga, he really didn't want much of ANYTHING to do with DB after that point. However, Toei, being the money grubbing idiots they are, were like, "Hey, let's make a DB WITHOUT AT's help! It'll be great, we'll make Goku kill everything!" -_-
The most AT did was do a few designs on SSJ4. And even those were thrown away for the stupid monkey form.
im just really mad at how they had such good/great characters playing good/evil characters. like piccolo and vegeta for instince. they had a badass attitude and noone took them lightly, now their a laughing stock.
its asshame at what that anime has come to (used to be one of my favs)
hey sonofsayin its my thread what do you think of it any ways its not gokus fault that him and vegeta are the only ones to be able to go ssj4 they are the strongest fighters in the universe and besides most of the villians were far to powerful for any body else but those two to handle any ways
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Vegeta couldn't handle anyone anyway. Watch that video I posted, that explains it all perfectly. It shows EXACTLY what kind of "sense" GT makes.
Also, Mystic Gohan, who for some idiotic reason, NEVER shows up, even though Gohan can't go SSJ, which he does in GT. Also, from what I could tell, SSJ4 Goku wouldn't be much stronger than Mystic Gohan anyway, if at all. They just made it LOOK like he's much stronger than everyone in SSJ4, even though he's stronger in Base *STATED*(<<< I'm actually serious).
Yea, Piccolo didn't deserve to be killed off and the series was far to focused solely on Goku. Goku is and will always be my favorite character, but not even the mightiest saiyan could raise GT to the acclaim and popularity of it's predecessor. I still love GT as much as Z because it provides what I think is a satisfying end to the greatest animated series ever.
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Last edited by sonofasaiyan on Jul 23rd, 2004 at 04:43 PM
Cizal...what kind of illegal stimulants have you gotten your paws on? SSJ4, next to the Golden Oozaru stage is the most powerful stage a saiyan can possibly achieve. Even if Gohan was at Mystic Level and had been training as much as Goku had, he would still be dwarfed by the awesome power that emanated from SSJ4 Goku. How can you say that his base form was more powerul? Bebi-Vegeta was kicking his chibi ass all over the place as a SSJ3 after his tail pulling on the sacred planet. When he first transformed into a SSJ4 he beat Bebi-Vegeta sensless. And when you say base level you're referring to a normal saiyan, not even an SSJ! So you're telling me Goku was more powerful at base level than as a Super Saiyan when he fought Freiza. Bullshit. What kind of crackhead site were you on???
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Last edited by sonofasaiyan on Jul 23rd, 2004 at 04:46 PM
It's STATED that Goku is his most powerful in Base. Did you see that video that I posted earlier about it? It shows, from the SUB, which, sadly enough, is going to be the most correct version, that A) SSJ4 Goku gets his ass beat by Ii Shenron, no problem. Then it shows that B) Ii Shenron using a blast on Goku, who is in BASE, and is also VULNERABLE because he's making a Genki Dama, doesn't even put a scratch on him from that attack, which had just previously taken out SSJ4 Goku with EASE. And then C) Pan STATES that, "Goku is all powered up", and this is while he's charging up the Genki Dama. Keep in mind, he's still in BASE. It's not my fault that you don't believe me, I'm using facts straight from GT. Of course, Goku isn't even the strongest person in GT. Kuririn kicks his ass at the end when Goku's in base with ease.
Yes, I'm COMPLETELY serious. And I hate that fact.
EDIT: Bleh. The video exploded. Oh well.
Last edited by Cizal on Jul 23rd, 2004 at 07:56 PM
well if you think about cizal he is not as powerful in base level just as you stated he was powering up a genki dama in which case he is absorbing power from other living thing planet included and when pan said he was all powered up she was talking about the genki dama
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No, she CLEARLY said HE'S, referring to GOKU, all powered up. The Genki Dama was already there. Any energy would go into that, NOT Goku, yet Pan clearly says that "He's all powered up now!", when he's in Base. Why wouldn't she say that in maybe SSJ4? Maybe because it's WEAKER than his Base form? Looks about right to me.
And besides, how do you explain him getting him by a blast, and NOT BEING AFFECTED while in Base, yet a blast that was smaller, and charged for a LESSER time demolished his SSJ4 form?
Ok...Krillin is more powerful than Goku... hahahahahaha!!!!!! I tried...I couldn't keep...a face. I'm sure the spirit bomb had defensive properties or perhaps it was out of sheer deseperation and determination. No offense, I just can't see SSJ4 Goku or any saiyan for that matter, at any level being beaten by Krillin considering Goku was more powerful than him for most of his natural life. And Pan WAS obviously talking about the Genki Dama aka Spirit Bomb. I mean it gathered energies from across the cosmos. I feel it may be an error in translation which you stupidly took out of context. He revertered back to his base form because his little body could not handle the immense power of his SSJ4 form while he was fused with Vegeta. So, he had more or less ran out of energy, which makes the Spirit Bomb responsible for his survival and defensive power. Your explanation is really illogical Cizal you need to post links that work and think again. You are right about one thing, Goku isn't the strongest...Gogeta is.
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It was a Sub. I got a Japanese-speaking friend of mine on another forum(can't post it, obviously) to do a little check on the line, and he confirmed it.
Also, the link worked for around 3 days, then it died. Dunno why. I've got the movie saved, but I haven't got a clue how to post it anywhere...
Now, I'm just posting things that came straight from the sub. It's not my fault you don't believe me. SSJ4 Goku got his ass WHOOPED by Ii Shenron, no problem WHATSOEVER. Then, when he was making the Genki Dama, in BASE, he got blasted by a LARGER, MORE POWERFUL BLAST, and didn't even have a scratch from it. And yet, from ALL the other times he's used the Genki Dama, he has been EXTREMELY vulnerable, since he has to put all his focus onto gathering energy for the Genki Dama. And the Genki Dama is an attack, pure and simple, it's NEVER stated ANYWHERE that it increases your defenses at all. That was GOKU withstanding the attack, anyway, NOT the Genki Dama. To think otherwise is to use speculation as fact. That doesn't work for DB/Z/GT.
Now, Pan CLEARLY said HE, not the Genki Dama, was all powered up. All the power goes into the GENKI DAMA that Goku's gathering, NOT into Goku. But Pan was CLEARLY referring to Goku, and how he is, at THAT POINT IN TIME, all powered up now. NOT when he was SSJ4, no, when he was BASE, when he was all vulnerable from making the Genki Dama. Don't give me any BS about, "Oh it increased his defenses," or "Oh, you're misinterpreting it," There was NO doubt that Goku was stronger in Base than he was in SSJ4. Even Gogeta couldn't take blasts from Ii Shenron willy nilly like Base Kid Goku did! Stop trying to deny it. You can try to speculate about such and such, but speculation has NOTHING on STATED/SHOWN FACTS.
GT isn't logical, this is the point I'm trying to make. It really does make Base KID Goku >>>> All. Except for Krillen. They fought at the very end of GT and Krillen kicked Goku's ass. Can't deny the facts, kid.
Last edited by Cizal on Jul 24th, 2004 at 02:52 AM
two things one goku let krillin kick his ass come on in db goku got the shit kicked out of him by tien while krilling only just beat chausto (or whatever that freaky mimes name is) also you know what gt needed more evil saiyans just one evil saiyan hven,t you ever noticed that the power of the super saiyan has neer been used aginst the good guy,s and dont any of you other guy,s give me some of that 'oh but cell had saiyan d.n.a in him and hsi aura was all yellow with dead osuls in it so he must be a super saiyan' crap ok
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Jul 22nd, 2004 08:23 PM
deserve to be killed off and the series was far to focused solely on Goku. Goku is and will always be my favorite character, but not even the mightiest saiyan could raise GT to the acclaim and popularity of it's predecessor. I still love GT as much as Z because it provides what I think is a satisfying end to the greatest animated series ever.
I tried...I couldn't keep...a 
face. I'm sure the spirit bomb had defensive properties or perhaps it was out of sheer deseperation and determination. No offense, I just can't see SSJ4 Goku or any saiyan for that matter, at any level being beaten by Krillin considering Goku was more powerful than him for most of his natural life. And Pan WAS obviously talking about the Genki Dama aka Spirit Bomb. I mean it gathered energies from across the cosmos. I feel it may be an error in translation which you stupidly took out of context. He revertered back to his base form because his little body could not handle the immense power of his SSJ4 form while he was fused with Vegeta. So, he had more or less ran out of energy, which makes the Spirit Bomb responsible for his survival and defensive power. Your explanation is really illogical Cizal you need to post links that work and think again. You are right about one thing, Goku isn't the strongest...Gogeta is. 
