I own the Wizard that interview was originally published in...
I agree that the thought of a woman losing her baby and joining with the Symbiote would've been sort of... weird... no matter the artist... readers would've never really been able to think of her as "sexy" in the costume having to keep in mind she aborted a kid at some point prior to joining with it...at least I wouldn't be so quick to think about her visually that way.
Which of course asks whether Marvel would've made her a non-sexy villain and instead focused on her just being a "creepy" villain... which might've worked considering the costumes ability to act like a chameleon and to offer it's host any kind of disguise they could imagine. She could've played mind-games with Spidey in his personal life a lot easier then a big-muscle head like Brock could in any event.
McFarlane also had a buncha complaints about the costume... he was only going to draw Spidey if he was in his red and blue suit; I guess he really hated the black costume's (initial non-Venom) design.
The one overall (good) thing I automatically think about is that if they HAD gone with that original idea, Carnage WOULD'VE been different when/if they introduced the character; chances are it would've been a WOMAN host and that she wouldn't have been some cliche' sadistic killer...
It's certainly a good "Sliders alternate reality" discussion... (right alongside: What if the Beatles stuck together? What if America stayed out of WW2? What if America was discovered by the Chinese? etc. etc.)
First off, do my eyes deceive me?! Badsymbiote, your back?! Nice! Welcome back!!
I guess it was good I decided to check back here after like 2-3 weeks.
But anyways, following up Orange…
Well, in all honesty, I happen to like the sound of the whole “original Venom being a woman” dealy. While it is drastically different from the route the creators decided to take, I think that it would allow for some very interesting stories. From the sounds of it. I ‘spose it’s still possible to work that story into current continuity, even. Maybe have the successor to Gargan be a woman, using the aforementioned story proposition? I think it would fit rather nicely in Spidey’s current stories, what with him going kind of crazy with the whole Aunt May thing.
The world Peter lives in now is a much darker place than when Eddie Brock was introduced into the story. And the original Venom concept that was shot down is a much darker story, fitting of current 616 stories. I also think with how the writers throughout Marvel have been writing the Symbiote as of late, it would work very well. As of late, the Symbiote has been shown to have taken on a much more violent streak. It’s much more uncaring in the ways of morals and whatnot. This would just work so well with the original concept.
Maybe its time to write a fanfic, lol.
__________________
"If you desire one thing for so long, it's a given that you'll
miss other things along the way. That's how it is... that's
life" - Godo (Berserk)
True indeed. Hows it been hangin' Arachnid? Have you been following the current Sym stories, or have you dropped 'em like so many of our comrads from long ago? Lol.
__________________
"If you desire one thing for so long, it's a given that you'll
miss other things along the way. That's how it is... that's
life" - Godo (Berserk)
Of course, it goes without saying that I'm glad they went with Brock. REALLY glad.
But orange is right about the woman's miscarriage altering her peceived sensuality. A pregnant woman's body really seems to functional to be conventionally sexy; and a woman who had just lost both her husband AND his unborn child would be a wreck psychologically--in the end people would really just see her as very damaged goods.
But my God, when she got her head together, she would be a frightful adversary. She wouldn't even BOTHER with the sort of "amicable" hostility we typically see between Parker and Brock. She would be wholly, completely and ceaselessly focused on Spidey's destruction.
"OH KIEKAN, THANK YOU!--BUT WE'RE NOT REALLY BACK PER SE, WE'RE JUST DROPPING IN TO CHECK ON THE SPAWN."
Well they later Incorporated that concept into She-venom for a bit she was actually meant to be a full character often sharing the symbiote but the editor (always the Editor) at the time did not like it especially since Spider-man had Hit MJ accidentally an Issue before but that original concept was old if I had known many of you did not know of that original plan I would have told you long ago.
In my opinion yeah she would've been a MUCH more dangerous villain then Brock: he lost a job and contemplated suicide... wow... SHE lost a Husband and an unborn child which is easily like 20x as bad on the life-shattering front. That unborn child thing IS dangerous water to tread for a comic book villain, though... readers wouldn't know whether they should feel bad for her or what... probably one of the reasons the editors didn't like her for Spidey's 300th issue.
One thing she'd have working for her would be whether or not she lets her desire to kill Spiderman consume her or not like it did Brock.
Y'see, once Brock got defeated at the end of Amazing 300 he was destined to always be known to the police as Venom... and therefore had no CHANCE at having a "real life" alongside his activities as Venom... (which imo sort of "ruins" the chance for different stories rather then him just breaking out and attacking Spiderman). Once his identity was publicly known, he could never get another "legit" job, never go out on a date with a girl in his off-time in public, etc etc. He sort of got himself pidgeon-holed into being Venom by getting beaten and captured. Eddie Brock didn't really "exist" in the sense he was actually leading any kind of life.
With that woman host, if she had been more smart about it then Brock, she would've had a much more "longer" life-span as a nasty villain... and added more to the villain idea...
A storyline that would've been an interesting one is if she showed up at the Parkers residence and slyly let MJ know Peter and her were having an affair or something; cause some kind of drama between the couple... something like that would only work if her identity wasn't known.
Another thing I was thinking was since she lost her human child, chances are the fact that the Symbiote could spawn off-spring would become an interesting story dynamic: "You... we're... pregnant?! How wonderful!"
I'm willing to bet she'd have hand-picked a host for the Carnage symbiote when it spawned, unlike what went on with Venom in the books.
Well Venom was not know as Venom in many of the first issues except for the Vault and Spider-Man and the FF, but physiologically it would have been more intense, but Like I said in one of my posts the Editor did not Like a Woman beating up Spidy but She-Herself would have been Like Brock and lost the same and be known to people, also what would happen to the LF symbiotes and yes she could have been a truly nasty villain but would the readers have picked up on that, but she may have been more interesting, but to be fair we don't want Villains to have "Real lives" we want them to be there and the only personal thing we want from them is Children that follow the mantle.
I dunno... to have lasting power with a character they need to be able to show different facets of him/her asides the mindless-killing machines.
To truly make the Venom costumes' host a "foil" for Spiderman the wearer needs to have the ability to lead a "normal" life imo; Marvel even tried to do that later on with the Venom mini-series by having him meet those people who lived underground in San Francisco.
They ran out of stories involving Venom fighting Spidey, (why he agreed to not fight him)... and there's only so many stories they could come up with involving Brock running from government agencies/life foundation/the Jury/etc. As such they tried to give him a more "human" appeal along with the monstrous one and it never really panned out, (though I suppose in large part because he didn't have a dedicated monthly book and had 20 different artists/writers handling his storylines in the mini-series didn't help either to improve his character).
With that woman host there would've been a much more pronounced Psychological aspect to the character to build off of; would Spiderman have REALLY gotten angry at her once he learned of her history and how he was indirectly responsible for her pain and suffering? I doubt it... he'd probably feel ultra-guilty about doing anything to her, (unlike with Brock who's only real "grievance" was he lost a job).
I think MJ would've played a HUGE part and been a target to the female Venom, too. Think about it: "You took my Husband and child, Spiderman... now I'm taking your wife and any future children you might have away from you!"
The REAL fun would've been when it came time to use the costumes powers as instant wardrobe on a woman is the win (mind games with spidey: she shows up in a corset and garter belt)... and of course when Spidey got around to blasting the female host with a sonic gun...
Registered: Oct 2006
Location: On killer forums reading posts.
That is so damn IRONIC, because I was writing a Fanfic that had a woman lose here husband and her child and bond with a symbiote. Too lazy to finish though.
Both of orange's last two posts are incredibly insightful and thought-provoking. I'm glad to see someone else realizes the power a woman could have as a long-term villainess--someone who would continue to use her focus beyond the rage and grief she would feel initially after losing the two people in the world she couldn't live without. She wouldn't just seek to kill Spidey in haste, but make him endure a rash of heartbreaking losses.
That's what makes orange's mention of MJ as an object of manipulation so great. The possibility of messing with such a weak, easily negotiable character would be an integral part of Parker's degradation and destruction.
As the saying goes, Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.
Lol, I don't think the ability for a woman to be a long term villainess has ever been the issue, Bad. I think its more the stories that go along with the given characters that drive them. Many characters (male or female) throughout comic history (and this goes for just about any medium, really) have died off due to lacking stories.
The characters have always had the potential to become more, but due to poor writing, fans don't have a very good chance to connect with the characters and they die off.
I was actually thinking today, of a slightly different way to write a fanfic on the whole original-Venom-being-a-woman thing. If everyone, or even a small group of people were up for it, we could all collaborate on one story by throwing in feedback and ideas on how to drive the story. Then designate (or have someone volunteer, I 'spose [I don't think having each person write a section themself would work very well, as I've seen this done numerous times and the story never seems to flow properly]) to write the given material. I could host it on Orange and my Symbiosis site, too.
Thoughts, anyone?
__________________
"If you desire one thing for so long, it's a given that you'll
miss other things along the way. That's how it is... that's
life" - Godo (Berserk)
Oct 22nd, 2007 09:33 PM
Too lazy to finish though.
