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Lord of the Rings vs. Star Wars.
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Cory Chaos
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Uh..George Lucas took ideas from "The Hidden Fortress", "Metropolis", religion in general, war movies, and god knows what else. He's like the Sci Fi equvalent of Quentin Tarantino, and to say he had "nothing to work with" is garbage.

He threw a bunch of stuff on a wall, hoped it would stick, it did, and out came "Star Wars". big grin

Old Post Sep 26th, 2004 09:44 PM
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cal31
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Soth
In terms of success, Lord of the Rings wins by virtue of all the awards, box office gross, and critcal praise it got. In terms of impact, they tie. Both have revolutionized the way Sci-Fi/Fantasy movies are made, and they both introduced breakthrough SFX techniques. So overall, LotR wins



Wrong, ANH still has grossed more money than any LOTR film and without Star Wars, LOTR wouldn't have been made. You have to understand that up until ANH, nothing like that had ever been tried in a film before, so there is no way you can say LOTR impacted the film industry as much as Star Wars, it just isn't true. You can argue that LOTR is much better, but there is no way that it revolutionized the film industry as much as Star Wars. You look at most directors of the past 20 years, and look what they say was probably the biggest inspiration to make movies, Star Wars. Peter Jackson even said this himself. I just don't understand how people can argue that LOTR introduced ground breaking effects or anything like that, almost every special effect in that movie had been done before to a certain extent. The same can't not be said for Star Wars.


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2004 09:48 PM
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cal31
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quote:
Originally posted by Cinemaddiction
Uh..George Lucas took ideas from "The Hidden Fortress", "Metropolis", religion in general, war movies, and god knows what else. He's like the Sci Fi equvalent of Quentin Tarantino, and to say he had "nothing to work with" is garbage.

He threw a bunch of stuff on a wall, hoped it would stick, it did, and out came "Star Wars". big grin



He didn't have three books to copy from though as Peter Jackson did, there is a huge difference there. Instead of thinking how to end the 2nd act or draw the movie to a conclusion like Lucas did, all Peter Jackson had to do is look at the book, read the last chapter.


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2004 09:51 PM
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when it comes down to it, lord of the rings, in this day and age, was a breathtaking achievement in movie-making, no question, but star wars is star wars, it has that magical quality, the feeling u get in the pit of your stomach when the words "a long time ago in a galaxy far far away..." appear on the screen. also...

quote:
Uh..George Lucas took ideas from "The Hidden Fortress", "Metropolis", religion in general, war movies, and god knows what else. He's like the Sci Fi equvalent of Quentin Tarantino, and to say he had "nothing to work with" is garbage.

He threw a bunch of stuff on a wall, hoped it would stick, it did, and out came "Star Wars".


what a load of bullshit, as was mentioned earlier jackson (who is a brilliant director nonetheless) had books to copy, lucas had an idea, yes he had staff, but the fact is every design, every word, every single minute detail created had to be approved by lucas, if he had done wrong we wouldnt be comparing these two great movie series' now would we? lucas had an idea, a brilliant idea which was crafted into some briliant movies, maybe lotr was better than the new sw movies, but a new hope and empire strikes back are better than their counterparts.


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2004 11:36 PM
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BackFire
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quote:
Originally posted by cal31
Wrong, ANH still has grossed more money than any LOTR film and without Star Wars, LOTR wouldn't have been made.




In the US maybe, world wide is another story

http://www.imdb.com/boxoffice/allti...gion=world-wide


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Old Post Sep 26th, 2004 11:55 PM
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first of all your right about the money side of things, but you have to take into account lots of things, firstly that the volume of people going to the cinema had dramatically increased in the past ten-fifteen years, especially in europe, while the money part is right, i wonder how big the audiences were considering how cheap it was to go to the movies back then compared to now.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2004 12:10 AM
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rohanspear543
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LOTR woooooooooo! I don't care what the stars wars geeks say The Lord of the rings was a great book way b4 lukas made the movie which was pretty dumb I think the Leggionarre was better than that. Happy Dance rolling on floor laughing smokin' (starwars guy getting hit by smileys) rolling on floor laughing rolling on floor laughing


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2004 02:50 AM
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eh...were talkin bout the movies.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2004 02:51 AM
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Cory Chaos
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quote:
Originally posted by cal31
there is a huge difference there.


Not really. All Lucas did wash mesh a bunch of existing ideas, stories, and characters, and make an ending. Star Wars was never planned to be a trilogy.

quote:
Originally posted by pr1983
what a load of bullshit, as was mentioned earlier jackson (who is a brilliant director nonetheless) had books to copy, lucas had an idea, yes he had staff, but the fact is every design, every word, every single minute detail created had to be approved by lucas, if he had done wrong we wouldnt be comparing these two great movie series' now would we? lucas had an idea, a brilliant idea which was crafted into some briliant movies, maybe lotr was better than the new sw movies, but a new hope and empire strikes back are better than their counterparts.


..and that has what to do with Lucas "not having anything to work with", when all he did was throw a bunch of inspirations in a blender and make a big story out of it?

They both had material to base their works on. Lucas' vision was just more grand and original.

Old Post Sep 27th, 2004 03:09 AM
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quote:
all he did was throw a bunch of inspirations in a blender and make a big story out of it?


its harder than u think

quote:
Lucas' vision was just more grand and original.


i totally agree


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2004 03:13 AM
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Cory Chaos
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Alls I was saying is that these guys had AMPLE outside influence for the basis of their movies. The overall influence and ingenuity of "Star Wars" is untouchable.

"Lord of the Rings" is just the epic movie that Hollywood was way overdue for. It's not going to influence any other fantasy movies to come, really, other than just inspiring any predecessors to reach higher, quality wise. But given the costuming, direction, script, etc..LOTR is equally as hard to top, and these two movies honestly cannot be compared fairly.

Old Post Sep 27th, 2004 03:24 AM
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i agree with u completely, well said


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2004 03:27 AM
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Zanthor
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First off. The All-Time Box Office that is listed on IMDb is not acurate. They have not adjusted by Inflation. This is a list I found that had IMDb's list but then listed movies adjusted at...
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/To...d_for_inflation

It lists the top movies adjusted as...
1. Gone with the Wind
2. Star Wars ANH
3. Titanic
4. Jaws
5. E.T.
. . .
14. The Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring

Since Titanic was listed as being #1 but is only #3 when adjusted for inflation you can say that Star Wars a New Hope actually made more money then LORT - Return. The IMDb list had Titanic above LOTR Return of the King but now it is below Star Wars ANH.

Granted this list was compiled in 2002 so it is missing Return of the King and 2 Towers but it still shows that the first list misses important data.

As for my opinion. Much of what they did in LOTR was made possible from technology that came from Lucas and Star Wars. LOTR is a great story but it just can't compare to the Star Wars series.


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Last edited by Zanthor on Sep 27th, 2004 at 03:40 AM

Old Post Sep 27th, 2004 03:37 AM
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El Toro
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quote:
Originally posted by forumcrew
same to you el toro.. with the story being more thougth out.. he copied a book he didnt have to think about the story just how hed shoot it... plus LOTR is more like 1 movie anyway than it is a trillogy where as each SW can stand alone


im not talking about originality (cos SW is OG Lucas) im just sayin the way they delievered it onto screen is better. Jackson & his writing team changed a few things in order to transfer it from pages on a book to film. some where scruitinised (elves at healms deep) and some were understandable (Faramir wanted the ring so that he could get his father's approval of him. plus it took away from its mystic if Faramir bluntly refuses the ring that could enslave the whole world)

and tell me this, if u watch ESB, ROTJ or AOTC for the first time and didnt know nuthin about SW you would think it'll work as a stand alone movie? ofcourse not. you need the whole trilogy to understand the full story.

another thing: The SW is meant to be viewed all at once to get full understanding of the characters and story thus making it seem like 1 movie. however you view the SW movies now and there's no flow. LOTR is one story cut into 3 parts, but the key was it was made all in one go making it seem like a continuation of the previous movie.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2004 03:49 AM
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El Toro
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quote:
Originally posted by Cinemaddiction
Alls I was saying is that these guys had AMPLE outside influence for the basis of their movies. The overall influence and ingenuity of "Star Wars" is untouchable.

"Lord of the Rings" is just the epic movie that Hollywood was way overdue for. It's not going to influence any other fantasy movies to come, really, other than just inspiring any predecessors to reach higher, quality wise. But given the costuming, direction, script, etc..LOTR is equally as hard to top, and these two movies honestly cannot be compared fairly.


couldnt agree with you more. Good job.

Compare Troy (cost approx. $200 million to make) and LOTR ($300 million to make) and you'll find there's a big difference. The illiad has the greatest war story but they f**ked it up when they made a movie IMO that would appeal directly to young girls/ladies.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2004 03:59 AM
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Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by MF D00m
laughing out loud
The same could have been said if it was Frodo who was the toughest out of the two.
No.....not really. I haven't lost all respect for hobbits....just people who think Simmons could beat Frodo. Shame, young man, shame


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2004 07:00 AM
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daronisgod
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If you guys are going to ignore my posts then I'm going to keep shouting louder, Lucas could do whatever he wanted to because he was starting with nothing. PJ on the other hand had the much more difficult task of making a book that people had been saying was impossible to film into something anyone could enjoy.

SO STOP SAYING "ALL JACKSON HAD TO DO..." because its bull.

quote:
Originally posted by MC Mike
Star Wars has had a lasting effect on culture.


I see you have the crystal ball now, I did ask to borrow it first.

quote:
Originally posted by cal31
I just don't understand how people can argue that LOTR introduced ground breaking effects or anything like that, almost every special effect in that movie had been done before to a certain extent. The same can't not be said for Star Wars.


Afraid not. They developed there own special effects as they were going along. If that was true why was Jar Jar Binks so fake. Gollum is possibly the first CGI character that fully interacts with real actors thats actually believable, if you think that isn't groundbreaking then your a moron.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2004 09:05 AM
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D-Double
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Star Wars takes the taco.

LOTR is great but Lucas' movies are pure magic. He might have used LOTR as inspiration but my man took it to another level. Wizards, spaceships, laser swords, giant monsters, and...and...TWINS! eek!

Attachment: star wars episode4 2.jpg
This has been downloaded 84 time(s).


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2004 10:04 AM
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Prozak
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This is becoming quite a heated argument so i'm going to stick my oar in at this point.

It's all very well to say Lucas created Star Wars out of nothing but the fact is Star Wars was, at one point, so close to the Hidden Fortress that Lucas had to look into acquiring the rights to it. In the end he didn't need to because; see next point.

Lucas, while he wrote the first draft employed a number of writers to to produce his screenplay and his novelisation not only for ANH but for ESB and ROTJ. It was these writers that solved alot of the issues that meant he almost had to licence Kurasowas film.

Lastly, Star Wars ANH is basically your average fairy tale set in space. I'm not knocking the movie, infact the Original Trilogy is magical but don't ask me for an opinion on the new stuff, you might not like my answer.

Anyone wanting a little more info on the creative process behind the Star Wars legend should check this book http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0...01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

It's really good and it gives alot of juicy information that you'll never get out of Lucas or his company.

As for Peter Jackson, while its agreed he's had source material to work from, the task was just as daunting as if he was making a movie from scratch. Not only did it require substantial editing so it could actually fit it into 3 movies, there was also the design work and as someone said before the special effects were created on the fly. While Yoda in AOTC is impressive, he's nowhere near as complex as Gollum.

Also, I don't know where some people are getting the idea that the world of LOTR is small in comparison to Star Wars. Tolkien spent most his LIFE creating that world and his son has continued to add to it. Anyone who's read the books would know that not only is there plenty of history pre LOTR but there's also quite a bit of information to tell you what happened AFTER. Add to that feat the creation of a Language and it becomes an even bigger accomplishment; to say that the 25 or so books of the EUSW is bigger in scope and concept is lunacy.

And one final point, Lucas doesn't consider any of the EU stuff canon. So in that sense, it might as well not exist.

Old Post Sep 27th, 2004 10:10 AM
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cal31
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The LOTR world is small compared to Star Wars, if you think Middle Earth is bigger than a galaxy, that's your own problem.


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Old Post Sep 27th, 2004 12:32 PM
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