[They developed there own special effects as they were going along. If that was true why was Jar Jar Binks so fake. Gollum is possibly the first CGI character that fully interacts with real actors thats actually believable, if you think that isn't groundbreaking then your a moron.]
we were talking about the original trilogy, which was groundbreaking in effects, yes lotr came up with massive, but gollum being real was more to do with the actor than anything else.
thats what most people that dont like that one seem to hate it for,with me its because of two main reasons. 1.Except for Lando,the acting was not believeable like it was in the first two films from the main characters,2.that whole thing of Leia and Luke becoming brothers and sisters at the end was so corny and stupid.That pretty much ruined the whole thing for me right there.
Last edited by Mr Parker on Sep 27th, 2004 at 06:25 PM
Yeah, I didn't like either of the things you mentioned and, but having the best space battle out of all the Star Wars movies, and having that final battle between Father and son still saved it for me and really liked it. Having Ewoks was another example of being limited by the technology back then. It was not possible to have Wookies instead, because they could not have gotten that many seven ft. guys to wear the Wookie costumes, just wasn't possible. But now, in Ep III, since they have the technology, they can just make the wookies digital and it won't be a problem. I think Lucas is probably having Wookies in Ep. III since he wasn't able to in ROTJ.
He had Wookiee senators in Episode 1 in the Galactic Senate, and there are plenty of archives photos of multiple wookies.Technology has absolutely nothing to do with it, and if he could find 100 small people to fill the roles of Ewoks in ROTJ, he could find men for the Wookiee roles, and he has for Episode 3, for the Kashyyk scenes.
It has everything to do with it. He only has about 10 guys in Wookie suits, the rest are all CGI, which they couldn't do for ROTJ. Yes they had wookie senators in EP 1, but they didn't have 100 like they would've needed for ROTJ. Lucas even said this in the commentary, that he had to design the story around the technology that was available, so that he didn't get to go everywhere or see everything he had wanted in the story.
If you could find 100 7 ft. tall guys who were agile enough to perform the scene, then yes it would be possible, but seeing as that would be very hard, it's not really possible. There aren't even 100 7 ft. tall players in the NBA, which has some of the most athletic tall people in the world, so I think it would be very hard to find a 100 just to do a small part in a movie.
Actually Massive is what lets them have armies of thousands on the screen, acting independantly.
I don't think Massive had anything to do with Gollum.
My point was that Gollum is the most realistic and believable CGI character.
Of course Star Wars was groundbreaking it was made when I was a kid, when my brothers had to programme their own games, and the games they did programme were neolithic compared to the games they have now.
But that doesn't mean LOTR didn't do anything groundbreaking either, I'm sorry but if you believe there have been CGI characters as believable and realistic as Gollum, then I'd like proof. Watch the scene in ROTK where Gollum is talking in his sleep... they do a close up of Gollum, his skin is so detailed and realistic its unbelievable.
A world as in history, which any real world has to have, you can go as far back in LOTR history as you like, right back to creation, this isn't about the actual size of the world, its about the world itself and the characters and events in that world.
We're talking believability here, we're talking about how realistic the character is, Gollum had to be believable because you have to react to him the way you would a real actor, but what we're looking at on screen is computer generated and CGI characters have never been believable enough to take seriously, until Gollum.
I am basing this on the Lord of the Rings Films as I have not read the books. I love all three of Star Wars films and I cant say the same for LOTR. I loved the first LOTR and TTT was good too but ROTK was like watching the end half of TTT twice but with little differences on how the huge battle(s) took place. If I had to choose between LOTR and SW it will definitely be SW by a long shot but my favorite films of all time are The Matrix Films.
i didn't say it did, i said that the graphics for gollum had been done before. U can have life like graphics as much as you want, without serkis' performance gollum would'nt have seemed real. Gollum's looks were not groundbreaking, spirits within was gollums precursor, the graphical quality was not created by lotr, it was expanded upon, thats not groundbreaking.
Much of Gollum's realism, believability is in the detail.
People forget Gollum is CGI for a reason, the same reason they forget that the trolls on Pelennor Fields are CGI, its odd but it hadn't even occured to me that those trolls are CGI until someone mentioned it, that is the true measure of CGI success that you don't notice it isn't real, that it doesn't even occur to you, you don't even think about it, I know I didn't.
really? Ive never EVER heard of them. And have they been going strong over 20 years now? Internationally and on the same size and scope as the SW ones? Somehow I doubt that.
I never said my experience spoke for everyone. What I said was "many of us have read it and forgotten about it". Many does not = everyone. If you are going to respond to a quote I make please dont twist the quote. And whether you choose to accept it or not EVERYONE has a point. So saying someones opinion is pointless is well.......rude and speaks volumes to me about your maturity level.
Whether a person likes SW or LOTR is based on their personal likes and dislikes, but I'd be willing to bet that in the US anyway if you lined people up the SW fanbase would overwhelm the LOTR fan base.
peter jackson said if george lucas did'nt event the digital tech stuff that he would'nt have been able to make lotr.But I have to say I love both trilogys they are amazing to watch and we should be glad that their are movies like this to watch for now may ring be withyou.