I know, but you know how it goes, whenever you say something that threatens Batman - even when you are 100 % correct - certain members jump in and call you fanboy...
__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
Same here. In a random fight, Batman can NOT take Spider-Man, because Spider-Man outclasses Batman in every physical way.
But to "counter" that argument, some members give Batman huge upgrades and at the same time they concentrate on the not so great fights of Spider-Man (and ignore of course the truly great fights of Spider-Man).
Now, with preptime, well I think Batman has a good chance of beating Spider-Man, but nothing more. Just a good chance.
__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
Gender: Male Location: Kicking pigs out of the screen.
Well lets give spidey some upgrades, that he's had.
Symbiote spidey
Organic webbing
Captain Universe
Invisibility
P.S please come reason with Cresh, he's ranting and becoming a troubled youth. I'm trying to get him to make a detailed scenario, by using his own logic, posts that lead to nowere, he's yet to get started.
We are talking about batrangs, Smoke bombs, Sleeping Gas, and who knows what else is in that belt. I think if the Punsiher could give Spridy a bet of a run, Than BAtman could win too.
__________________
Have a laugh evey now and than.
Gender: Male Location: Kicking pigs out of the screen.
will saved?
yeah an bats would never go with the likes of carnage, firelord and others
His web can hold the thing for life given a sufficient amount, nothing wrong with your opinion but its a battle of brains one with super physicality, and pre cog.
No holds barred match batman wins. No holds barred match means that batman is going to cheat up the yin yang. No holds barred match means that they are both going at each other with everything that they have got. This means you are including batman's boats, planes, batmobils and who knows what he has on hand. No holds barred match means that batman already knows who spiderman is, knows what he had for break fast, launch, and even what he is going to have for launch. Before spiderman even gets it. why there is a scar on spiderman's pinky toe. No hold barred match means you are giving everything what spiderman is to batman, you are giveing him a biography of spidermans life. Simply because batman does not go into any SITUATION UNPREPARED.
But correct me if I am wrong, Isn't this how debates are fought. Have you ever seen a debate where the other team gives props to the opposition? I haven't because in debates you try to break what you opponent is saying.
No huge upgrades have been given to batman, there are just stuff you did not know existed.
Will you please stop ignoring what I've said! It doesn't matter how Spidey got his powers, a hero's origin is his origin regardless of what one may think about it.
To just dismiss the possibility of applying real world physics to a character's abilities just because the way in which the character got them is illogical just eeks desperation.
We have claims of Batman being able to hit harder than Spidey because of his channeling the chi and his training (a real world factor here), yet when Spidey supporters go on to prove this wrong such as indicating Spidey's strength upgrade that basically puts him on a level well higher than that of Batman (he's around a class 15-20 tonner), it's crap just because the Batman supporters can pull up something out of their comic book collection that shows Spidey's fighting abilties being suppresed in a fight against people well weaker and less competent than he. Are you starting to see the pattern here? The Batman supporters can mix both logic and nonsense into their arguments but the Spidey supporters are scolded for using real world physics and strategy WITHOUT the use of nonsensical rants like "Spidey could slap Superman around with his superior speed and then string him up by his legs with his webbing."
When Batman supporters say Batman can channel the chi to kick through living trees and dent steel and the Spidey supporters retaliate with the argument of Spidey being shown to punch through steel three inches thick, kick through concrete repeatedly resulting in a demolished building without feeling it, and wrench thick steel supports out of concrete with nothing but his two arms all for just relieving stress, it's dismissed as though it means nothing.
Spidey's being sold short here just because he's been shown to job to a bunch of characters well below him physically for sheer fear of blemishing his good boy image, and running his morality into the ground......all for a few characters that play major roles for the company to fall dead at the more than capable and dangerous hands of Spidey.
__________________
Thanks for the sig TWelling4ever, go on, take a bow!
I know exactly what you mean. That is why i rarely argue comcis intellectualy anymore, because few people acknowledge what you have to say. It is a lost cause arguing with a fan boy.
I'm sure batman would have a greater chance of winning than i am giving him credit for. I look at it like this though. We are talking about batman and spiderman. Both have fought and conquered some of the world biggest baddies. These cats BOTH have enough experience to beat each other. Batman is one of DC's greatest Hand to hand fighters. I dont see martial arts playing that large of a role against spidey especially when it is backed by peak human strength. Spidey rarely stays in closed quarters with his foes. Spidey is not a martial artist but his fighting style is matched by none because it is so unique. Both of these cats are excellent strategist's with intelligence to spare. I actually think there strategies are very similar. Batman has gadgets, spidey has webbing and spidey sense. PArker has also been known to add concetrates to his webbing to create alternate types of weebing. So in the end, i truly believe it comes down to spideys strength and endurance. Seeing how they pretty much cancel each other out in nearly every other aspect. The only thing i see batman using to combat spideys strength is because he is so damn resourceful.
__________________ "If you tell the truth, you never have to remember anything" -Twain
(sig by Scythe)
Then he would have never lost & will never lose again. Batman comics would be real boring if it was like this. No holds barred and what you posted are 2 different things.
Yeah, if they were both going at each other with everything they had. Spidey has displayed the most bad ass-ness at no holds barred. when batman gets mad, he punches the bad guys a few times more, when spidey gets mad, explosions are always involved.
__________________ "If you tell the truth, you never have to remember anything" -Twain
(sig by Scythe)
So it's alright for you to pick and chose what real world information you'll listen to and what you'll ignore?
Why can't I do the same?
Well you won't accept dismissing the real world physics since it goes against what happened in the comic books, I'm trying to show you how incompatible real world logic is when Comic book logic has some definites.
Not entirly real world. Actualization of "chi" into a physical usable form is a fictional output.
Real world breaking boards and bricks is a combination of increased strength and deadened nerves. You punch through wood enough times you don't feel it as much. . . there really isn't any such thing as "chi" in the sense we see it in fiction.
hitting HARDER than spiderman? Wow. . that is . . . a bit over the top.
like mount everest is a bit of a hill.
I only made the comment that with training spiderman could hit harder and better since he is untrained. Not as a way of saying that batman hits harder than him.
I'm not one of the people that's claiming batman hits harder than spiderman. That's just . . . weird.
I could see the batman supporters bringing up batman's feats here to show that he hits harder than regular humans. . . but not that he hits harder than spiderman. . .
Uh. . . could you rephrase that I didn't quite catch your meaning.
i thought that when comic fans debate characters it was understood that there is no logic in comics, but is introduced in a friendly argument for fun. I gaurentee you that when a writer is contemplating wheather or not a superhero can live througha nuclear explosion, he is not weighing logic in his mind.
__________________ "If you tell the truth, you never have to remember anything" -Twain
(sig by Scythe)
Look man, I'm not even going to bother getting redundant here.
I can see that you can be reasonable when you want to be (i.e. agreeing that Batman can't hit harder than Spidey), so I'm going to let you take in what I have posted over the course of the entire time I've spent on this thread and see where you go with it from there.
As for my last point, I meant that Spidey was written to job to characters physically lower than he, he's sold short when it comes to dealing with guys like DD in hth combat just because he's not a martial artist. His potential is supressed in those battles and always because of some stupid technicality.
__________________
Thanks for the sig TWelling4ever, go on, take a bow!
So very true, and it doesnt apply for just spidey. A well calculated punch isnt going to effect spiderman anymore than a random sparatic strike. Unless the person is above human strength
__________________ "If you tell the truth, you never have to remember anything" -Twain
(sig by Scythe)
Gender: Male Location: SF Bay, What is it Beezies?
"Hmm . . . IT's still easier to hit a stationary object than one in motion. Dome room he might miss the initial shot not knowing how fast bat man moves, get's closer with the third shot (second shot probably grabbed a thrown item)
and the fourth or the fifth shot would probably land on batman. . .Not sure what happens after that."
(scenario)
"This means you are including batman's boats, planes, batmobils and who knows what he has on hand."
Batman just carries all those around? lol
So anyway, here's me being redundant again.
The fact of the matter is, anyone could write in a way for Batman to beat Spiderman. However, if you were sitting around looking at a list of the two and comparing powers Batman is a HUGE underdog in this fight.
Batman fans have to create "scenarios" in order to make their case (e.g. Batman actually lands a batarang. Batman hides behind a wall and stabs Spidey with the Batboat) ; and if you've read any of my posts on this board you know what I think of scenarios. (They are made up by the poster and have infinite possibilites or outcomes. So in short, they don't count as any sort of credible evidence..)
Spiderman fans on the other hand, base their arguments on sheer ability and powers. Spiderman outclasses, by a very large margin, Batman in every physical way. Spiderman's strength, speed, and durability alone is enough to win a random street fight with Batman. Then we have to think about things like his spider sense or webbing and it's practically in the bag for him. On paper, Spiderman "should" win this fight. You can make up a million reasons for Batman winning this fight; but he'll always be an underdog.
I don't care if you have a comic scan where Spiderman squeezes a balloon with intent to kill and can't do it.
"It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first picosecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels."
And where is says using all powers at their disposal i'm assuming they don't mean Batman carrying around every single gadget, batboat/copter/tank or whatever he's ever created. Just the things he would normally lug around.
That is from the forum rules. It is a proven fact that Spiderman can lift 20,000+ pounds and a punch from Spiderman would make Batman's melon explode. However, it is not in Spiderman's character to kill; so he will be holding back in his fight against Batman. And even when holding back, he "should" still hand Batman his ass.
Typical Batman fan counter-argument, "No seriously, man Batman could do three backflips bounce of a wall simotaneously throwing a batarang and three gas grenades while creating a device that will nullify Spiderman's wall crawling abilities and storing his chi for a punch that could make God cry."
See? That's a scenario. You can't prove that any of the things Batman does will land. But you can make up a scenario where they do. Based on sheer power and ability alone, I give this one easily to Spiderman. If I were to be writing a comic, i'd make it a close fight that gets interrupted by some super baddie who Spiderman and Batman have to team up against. If I were trying to be realistic knowing eachother's power levels? I'd draw one panel of Spiderman caving Batman's face in with one punch.
KMC Community Forums
May 28th, 2005 09:31 PM
