There is no problem or confusion on this end, however, I don't think you understood what Galan and I stated:
Also, to the bit you're getting hung up on about the regional control of the Tarkins (pretend Galan meant regional control, if you get hung up on that). Wasn't The Emperor in control of everything?
Do you have a clip or a time stamp for where this regional thing is stated? If you do, could that not be arrogant boasting that was clearly false?
Were not there more Grand Moffs than just Tarkin?
Also, there were plenty to promote up if the virtual "Joint Chiefs" were dead. Were not there Imperial Admirals by VI? I believe there were at the Battle of Endor.
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Last edited by dadudemon on May 7th, 2013 at 09:59 PM
"The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I have just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the old Republic have been swept away."
"That's impossible! How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?"
"The regional Governors now have direct control over their territories [Tarkin is referring to the newly appointed rank of Grand Moff]. Fear will keep the local systems in line... Fear of this battle station." - ANH
There were, but many of them were on the Death Star when it blew, iirc.
Regardless, Vader's only superior during ESB/RotJ was Palpatine, Grand Moffs/Admirals be damned... That said, I think Vader was merely giving Tarkin his due respect while aboard the Death Star. /shrug
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"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on May 7th, 2013 at 10:13 PM
Ah. The context makes that much more clear. The direct control part is a reference to the elimination of the senate and not a statement about no control from the Emperor. Meaning, the Grand Moff's no longer had to go through the bureaucracy.
__________________ "Your Lord knows very well what is in your heart. Your soul suffices this day as a reckoner against you. I need no witnesses. You do not listen to your soul, but listen instead to your anger and your rage."
maybe i should quote myself ad infinitum. isnt that how all your winning is done?
__________________ "Your Lord knows very well what is in your heart. Your soul suffices this day as a reckoner against you. I need no witnesses. You do not listen to your soul, but listen instead to your anger and your rage."
Registered: Aug 2004
Location: McClane's Right one
"Vader release him immediately" was one.
And he did release the officer he was force choking..with an totally complient "as you wish".
Trakin then followed this up his "This bickering is pointless" bollocking of Vader and the officer...
Other references to the hierarchy like Leia's appraisal of the relationship as Tarkin "Holding Vader's leash" clearly support the Tarkin highest position on this.
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"Van Zan is the Pinocchio of feces." - Lestov16
Last edited by Sadako of Girth on May 8th, 2013 at 12:02 AM
I covered this perspective, already, and so did Galan:
"I think the "Captain of the boat" analogy is the best fit/description for this situation. Tarkin was captain of the boat so Vader, despite his rank, respected the orders/wishes of Tarkin in situations where commands were given."
But Vader exercised some autonomy even while on the Death Star. This indicates that he wasn't quite under Tarkin...
If you read up just a little bit, you'll see I addressed this, already, too:
I am okay with discussing a topic and exploring the various aspects of it but talking in circles is not really what I prefer to do.
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Last edited by dadudemon on May 8th, 2013 at 12:40 AM
finding someone who accepts your completely and factually wrong assessment does not mean you "covered" it.
__________________ "Your Lord knows very well what is in your heart. Your soul suffices this day as a reckoner against you. I need no witnesses. You do not listen to your soul, but listen instead to your anger and your rage."
Registered: Aug 2004
Location: McClane's Right one
"The awesome, seven-foot-tall Dark Lord of the Sith makes his way into the blinding light of the main passageway. This is
Darth Vader, right hand of the Emperor. His face is obscured
by his flowing black robes and grotesque breath mask, which
stands out next to the fascist white armored suits of the
Imperial stormtroopers. Everyone instinctively backs away from
the imposing warrior and a deathly quiet sweeps through the
Rebel troops. Several of the Rebel troops break and run in a
frenzied panic."
__________________ "Your Lord knows very well what is in your heart. Your soul suffices this day as a reckoner against you. I need no witnesses. You do not listen to your soul, but listen instead to your anger and your rage."
Isn't that a bit of an extreme statement on your part? How much clearer did I have to make it that I wasn't too sure about it with multiple references to my dubiousness and requests for mod clarification on this topic? Additionally, what about the direct statement that I had not seen the movie in over a decade?
I am above this so I can say my belief about "Dark Lord of the Sith" was wrong. But you've only helped my point by bringing that up. Was that your intention? Just to remind you, my original point was about why he was called "Lord Vader" and that was leading credence to my overreaching point that he is not a definitive military leader in ANH.
Edit - I saw your post before the edit. Was it a bit to vitriolic upon a second reading? No worries: I won't report you for anything like that. Have at it.
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Last edited by dadudemon on May 8th, 2013 at 01:24 AM
__________________ "Your Lord knows very well what is in your heart. Your soul suffices this day as a reckoner against you. I need no witnesses. You do not listen to your soul, but listen instead to your anger and your rage."
Registered: Aug 2004
Location: McClane's Right one
I would say the edited one was better and more descriptive with the added "easily dismissable" and "false air of authority" as you seem very adamant. (especially before your edit) Problem?
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"Van Zan is the Pinocchio of feces." - Lestov16
Last edited by Sadako of Girth on May 8th, 2013 at 01:29 AM
3 edits on that last statement to get it just right? lol
Edit - Let me know how this: "..wasn't too sure about it with multiple references to my dubiousness and requests for mod clarification on this topic? Additionally, what about the direct statement that I had not seen the movie in over a decade?"
Equals this:
"pontification with an....air of authority"
But this is derailing the thread to be off topic just to have petty arguments. If you wish to have a pissing match or something, take it to PMs.
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Last edited by dadudemon on May 8th, 2013 at 01:27 AM
"Grand Moffs received drastically increased authority, military forces, and funding as fitting their enhanced position. The position of Oversector governor was the sixth highest in the Empire after the Emperor, Lord Darth Vader, Grand Vizier, Imperial Ruling Council, and Grand Admirals."
The above fact was confirmed in no less than 3 separate guides/bios. Even IF you want to call official guides/bios "non-usable EU material", it is still nigh-ludicrous to disregard that much evidence in favor of a few [ambiguous] statements made during ANH. Imo.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on May 8th, 2013 at 01:57 AM
Registered: Aug 2004
Location: McClane's Right one
Screenfeats>>Pamphlets and packaging third party guides no matter how "official". Xizor and Grand admirals like Thrawn weren't shown. Sounds like EU to me. The movie wins.
__________________
"Van Zan is the Pinocchio of feces." - Lestov16
Last edited by Sadako of Girth on May 8th, 2013 at 01:59 AM
May 7th, 2013 09:45 PM
