" You may "hate" the person's life-style, but that doesn't doesn't mean you hate on the person. You still treat them with the same respect as you would want."
She was refering to homosexuality as a lifestyle. It isn't.
I really don't understand your logic. People who are born with disabilites are born this way because of their genectic make-up. (chromosomes, chemical in-balance, etc.) They have absolutly no control over that when they are born. This is not so with choosing to be gay. There is no type of genetci make-up that people are born with that automatically says that they are gay.
Everyone in this world has Free Will. You choose what jobs you want, you choose who you want to marry, you choose who you want to date. Being gay is no difference. It is the same with straight people. They choose who they want to go out with etc. I use these examples to demonstrate the concept of Free Will, which is also an element of life. No, being gay is not an occupation, but it is still a choice to be made. How exactly does being gay when you are born work? Does that mean that some people are born gay and some people are born straight? And can we apply this same concept to other things? Are some people born mass murderes, other's not? Are some people born thieves, and other's not?
Futhermore, as I said, just becuase someone is gay, does not mean you discriminate against them. You still "treat them as you want to be treated"
I really don't want to get on the topic of religion, but since you brought it up, yeah, God did create everyone. But he also gave everyone Free Will. I don't understand your logic of people being born gay. Are you saying that there bodies function a different way than straight people? And I completly disagree about God making some of us "gay" As I said before, He gave us Free Will, meaning He gave us choices.
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i havnt bothered to read any of that
but with basic understanding of genetics your saying that a homo gene is
inherited. How can a homo have a kid if hes gay?
no no. I'm asking what they mean about homosexuals being born gay? How exactly does that work? There's nothing in there genetic make-up that proves any of this.
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Everyone in this world has Free Will. You choose what jobs you want, you choose who you want to marry, you choose who you want to date. Being gay is no difference. It is the same with straight people. They choose who they want to go out with etc. I use these examples to demonstrate the concept of Free Will, which is also an element of life. No, being gay is not an occupation, but it is still a choice to be made. How exactly does being gay when you are born work? Does that mean that some people are born gay and some people are born straight? And can we apply this same concept to other things? Are some people born mass murderes, other's not? Are some people born thieves, and other's not?
Futhermore, as I said, just becuase someone is gay, does not mean you discriminate against them. You still "treat them as you want to be treated"
I really don't want to get on the topic of religion, but since you brought it up, yeah, God did create everyone. But he also gave everyone Free Will. I don't understand your logic of people being born gay. Are you saying that there bodies function a different way than straight people? And I completly disagree about God making some of us "gay" As I said before, He gave us Free Will, meaning He gave us choices. [/B][/QUOTE]
Free will has nothing to do with homosexuality. You are still correlating homosexuality with occupation and ideologies. You can choose your career. You can choose your job. You choose what to do and what to not do. However, homosexuality is biologically instilled. For example, in a recent study in Switzerland they discovered that male homosexuals reacted strongly in favor of male phermones and female homosexuals reacted strongly in favor of female pheromones. How can "free will" change one's neurosymatic system to react favorably to pheromones of their own gender. Is the choice so powerful that the entire nervous system completely rewrites itself? I'm sorry but your theory is wrong. You can choose to date a man or a woman. However you cannot choose who to be sexually attracted to. It's not possible. The body determines this aspect. A man cannot control which gender is going to give him an erection nor can a woman control which gender is going to make her breast nipples harden. It's biological. Choice has nothing to do with it. And nearly every reputable psychological organization in the world agrees.
A major flaw with your theory is that if people "choose" to be gay, why would they choose to be gay? You choose to be a doctor or a lawyer because of the benefits that appeal to you. What are the benefits of being a homosexual in modern day society? None. You're more likely to get a sexually transmitted disease, you're more likely to be a victim of rape or aggravated assault, you can't have children, you can't get married, you're socially outcast by the majority of society, and in most countries in the world the punishment for homosexuality is either death or casturation. There are no benefits to being a homosexual. What sane person would "choose" to be a homosexual with full bearing of this knowledge? If being gay was choice, the number of homosexuals in the world would be next to zero. Why would you want to make your life ten times harder than it already is?
Gay teenagers often go through denial that they are gay. Some people try to ignore it, others are diagnosed with depression. Gay teenagers are the most likely demographic group in America to commit or attempt suicide. Why? Because they hate being gay. Most homosexuals don't want to be gay. They want to be "normal" Hundreds of gay men and women have committed suicide because they can't handle the stigma of being a homosexual. They try desperately to change it or ignore it but you can't ignore your need for love and sex.
Actually there have been numerous studies that have determined that homosexuality is somewhat genetic. Brown University in conjunction with Univerity of Chicago Medical Division have discovered several components in the DNA strand that are completely exclusive to homosexuals. Un People automatically assume that in order for homosexuality to be genetic, it must be inherit by their parents. Anyone who has studied biology will tell you this is false. Inherited genetics from parents are "combined" together to make an entirely new human being. New genetic codes are created. When a certain order and mathematical division of chromosomes are created (i.e. ABBABA) then a new information code is created.
It's like chemistry or cooking. New things are created by several components despite no prior relation.
Free will has nothing to do with homosexuality. You are still correlating homosexuality with occupation and ideologies. You can choose your career. You can choose your job. You choose what to do and what to not do. However, homosexuality is biologically instilled. For example, in a recent study in Switzerland they discovered that male homosexuals reacted strongly in favor of male phermones and female homosexuals reacted strongly in favor of female pheromones. How can "free will" change one's neurosymatic system to react favorably to pheromones of their own gender. Is the choice so powerful that the entire nervous system completely rewrites itself? I'm sorry but your theory is wrong. You can choose to date a man or a woman. However you cannot choose who to be sexually attracted to. It's not possible. The body determines this aspect. A man cannot control which gender is going to give him an erection nor can a woman control which gender is going to make her breast nipples harden. It's biological. Choice has nothing to do with it. And nearly every reputable psychological organization in the world agrees.
A major flaw with your theory is that if people "choose" to be gay, why would they choose to be gay? You choose to be a doctor or a lawyer because of the benefits that appeal to you. What are the benefits of being a homosexual in modern day society? None. You're more likely to get a sexually transmitted disease, you're more likely to be a victim of rape or aggravated assault, you can't have children, you can't get married, you're socially outcast by the majority of society, and in most countries in the world the punishment for homosexuality is either death or casturation. There are no benefits to being a homosexual. What sane person would "choose" to be a homosexual with full bearing of this knowledge? If being gay was choice, the number of homosexuals in the world would be next to zero. Why would you want to make your life ten times harder than it already is?
Gay teenagers often go through denial that they are gay. Some people try to ignore it, others are diagnosed with depression. Gay teenagers are the most likely demographic group in America to commit or attempt suicide. Why? Because they hate being gay. Most homosexuals don't want to be gay. They want to be "normal" Hundreds of gay men and women have committed suicide because they can't handle the stigma of being a homosexual. They try desperately to change it or ignore it but you can't ignore your need for love and sex.
Homosexuality is not and never was a choice. [/B][/QUOTE]
Thank you very much, totally agree!!
Rogue -
Yes, you can choose all of these things, but again, you cant say that people choose to be gay, because thats your opinion, thats not a fact, just like mine is that they dont and i think Draco's is as well. you say its not an occupation, but you choose to do it. In a way its right, some people choose to act on their emotions, yes they do that, they act on their feelings ...... not a choice, but feelings, hormons, something inside their heart....not their head!!
How is having free will a major flaw? I don't get that. And saying that there are no benefits of being gay, well that's your opinion. But people still choose that life-style, just like they choose the person they want to marry.
But while we're on the string about benefits, I can say the same thing about killers, theives, or murderers. What are the benefits of being a a known murderer in modern day society? None. You get locked up in prision, sometimes life, you could get the death penalty, you're outcast by the community you live in, sometimes even your family and friends, it's really hard for you to get a job because you're a felon and have a record. . .There are no benefits to being a murderer. What sane person would "choose" to be a murderer with full bearing of this knowledge?
Choosing to take someone's life is a choose, and there are still many who still do it. Same goes for being gay. It's still a choice, yet so many people still choose to do it.
Also, you still didn't answer my question about how someone can be born gay? How exactly does that work? There's nothing in there genetic make-up that proves any of this.
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Yes you can choose who you want to marry, but you can also be ignoring your true feelings, if you knew that you weren't attractive to them.
There are no benefits of murdering someone, unless in some cercumstances....but anyway.....yes you go to prison for something like that, why, because you have ended someones life, you have put someones else in danger, being gay doesnt do that. its your life and the way you are, its not hurting anyone else, so people who have a problem with it should get over it.
and as i said, in some circumstances, i believe that everyone could be able to kill someone....even for logical readons...
for the last time, No One Chooses To Be Gay. if your going to say that rogue, at least say that "you think" that they choose, you dont know for a fact that people choose that. have you asked everyone in the world who is gay if they choosed to be gay? have you?! If they choose anything, its to act on their feelings and hormons.
How is acting on your emotions and acting on your feelings different? I don't get that. Neither has anything to do with how you are born, so how can you apply this to being gay?
When you "feel" happy, how do you act on it? You might go to the movies, or do something fun. You're choosing to act on how you feel. Same with your emotions. You've just found out your girlfriend cheated on you. You're upset and angry, so you might act on these emotions and try and get revenge. You still CHOOSE to act on both these thing. It goes the same for being gay. If you have feelings towards someone in the same sex, you don't HAVE to act on those feelings, but you do. There is nothing in your genetic make-up that is forcinging you to act on those feelings.
Here goes that FREE WILL concept I was talking about.
I believe the poster said that I had a flaw in the choosing concept. He pointed out that there are no benefits for people being gay. I simply applied that same concept to murderers. There are no benefits with murdering people .. . .. .YET people still do this. I'm not sure, but I think he was saying that if people had a choice to be gay, than why do they make that choice? But I'm not sure if that's what he meant or not.
I never stated that I'd ask everyone in the world this question. But anyways .. . . thanks for proving my point! That's exactly what I mean. Homosexuals choose to act on their feelings. Again, there' the Free Will concept. Thanks.
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The merfact that you said that if they have the feelings and they get to decide to act on them or not is even there, then that means that they are gay. If someone has feelings for someone of the same sex then they are gay, we know that. But you said that if people have feelings, they can choose to act on them, that means in the first place they didnt choose to have these feelings..... i just proved my point!! thanks
You misunderstand again. The flaw of your theory is that homosexuality is something to be chosen. A profession, a lifestyle. People make choices in accordance of benefits and cons. However, there no real benefits to homosexuality as I have mentioned. You can choose to date who ever you want however you CANNOT choose who you are sexually attracted to. I can choose to marry Anna Nicole Smith. However I am not sexually attracted to Anna Nicole Smith. There is a difference. You choose who to date. But not who you are sexually attracted to. That's the key term. Homosexuality as the name implies is the sexual attraction to that of your own gender. You cannot alter nor choose how and when your body responds to a sexual attraction (i.e an erection).
You are referring to conscious behavior. However homosexuality is completely unconscious. The body reacts to an attractive member of their own gender. We don't consciously choose to react this way. The body reacts this way. Homosexuality to you is behavior that you choose to do. It's not. It's the base sexual attraction that we feel for the same gender. (i.e. lust)
Several genetic studies have been performed to prove that homosexuality is biologically based. In one such study, performed by Bailey and Pillard, the subjects were gay men, seperated at birth; never met each other, who had either a twin brother or an adopted brother. They found that 72% of the subject's identical twins were gay and only 6% of their adoptive brothers were gay. A companion study yielded by Bailey of lesbians yielded a similar pattern of results. Given that identical twins share tremendous genetic overlap, these results suggest that there is a genetic predisposition to homosexuality. More recent twin studies, with larger and more representative samples, have provided further support for the conclusion that heredity influences sexual orientation.
Most homosexuals trace back their homosexual feelings back to their early childhood, even before they understood what sex was. Another major research point was the reported anatomical differences between gay and straight men in a region of the brain thought to influence sexual behavior. LeVay focused on a tiny cluster of neurons in the anterior hypothalmus that is known to be larger in men than women. Because the structure is too small to be measured effectively in the living brain, it was studied posthumously (after death). LeVay compared the autopsied brains of 19 homosexual and 16 heterosexual men and found that the targeted structure was half the size it would be in heterosexual men. This was conclusive for all the subjects.
Homosexuality is biological. A wealth of information supports this. Unfortunately for you, you only possess your opinions and bias to back the theory that homosexuality is a choice.
Sexual Orientation is an enduring emotional, romantic, sexual or affectional attraction to another person. It is easily distinguished from other components of sexuality including biological sex, gender identity (the psychological sense of being male or female) and the social gender role (adherence to cultural norms for feminine and masculine behavior).
Sexual orientation exists along a continuum that ranges from exclusive homosexuality to exclusive heterosexuality and includes various forms of bisexuality. Bisexual persons can experience sexual, emotional and affectional attraction to both their own sex and the opposite sex. Persons with a homosexual orientation are sometimes referred to as gay (both men and women) or as lesbian (women only).
Sexual orientation is different from sexual behavior because it refers to feelings and self-concept. Persons may or may not express their sexual orientation in their behaviors.
Is sexual orientation a choice? No, human beings can not choose to be either gay or straight. Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed.
i thik its niether it is the role a person plays thro out his or her life.it is an infection that makes a person who they r and i think it is a good thing that people wish 2 be diferent.
To make a long story short: chromosomal neighborhood in common, a region designated Xq28 is found homosexuals but not heterosexuals. The mothers make male gays. The fathers make lesbians.
In men, the X chromosome pairs with the Y chromosome to form the so-called sex chromosomes, the final set of the 23 pairs of chromosomes found in all cells of the human body. A man's X chromosome is always inherited from the mother, who bestows on her son a reshuffled version of one of her two copies of the X chromosome. The latest results indicate that the newly reported genetic factor is passed through the maternal line. In the latest experiments, the researchers began by taking the family histories of 114 men who identified themselves as homosexual. Much to their surprise, the researchers discovered a higher than expected number of gay men among the men's maternal uncles and male cousins who were the sons of their mothers' sisters. The ratio was far higher than for men in the general population, suggesting a gene or genes that is passed through the maternal line and thus through the X chromosome.
The scientists then focused on gay brothers, on the assumption that if two boys in a family are homosexual, they were more likely to be so for genetic reasons than were those homosexual men without gay brothers. Using a well-known genetic technique called linkage mapping, they scrutinized the X chromosome in the brothers and other relatives by the application of DNA markers, tiny bits of genetic material that can distinguish between chromosomes from different people. The researchers found that more than three-quarters of the brothers had inherited identical DNA markers on the Xq28 region of the chromosome.
The lesbian studies are still being done. The DNA strand is four billion chromosomes long after all.
I have no idea what you are saying, sorry. I was saying that people choose to act on their feelings, whatever those feelings may be. I'm not sure what you mean by saying, "that means in the first place they didnt choose to have these feelings" Could you explain this a bit more? Any human being as feelings .. .we know this.
From what I read, you stated that there were no benefits of being gay becuase of the cons you described. SO why would anyone choose to be gay,you asked? I pointed out, that this goes for being a murderer. I described the cons as well, and asked the same question. Despite knowing these cons, people still choose to murder others.
As for sexual orientation? Yeah, I understand about that. But what I don't understand is how you are born this way. How are certain people born gay? What is it about there genetic make-up that is so different from straight people?
This is my point. Just as the murderer chose to kill people, fully knowing the cons of it, people still choose to be gay.
If sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience, how are they born gay?
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I read it, but honestly, it's a little confusing for me. I'm not a science major, so it kind of went over my head. But questions: this Xq28 region of the chromosome. What is that? Is that some type of gene that says who people have attractions to?
Also, I don't get the chromosomes and genes stuff. If there is like something in our genetic make-up that automatically predicts if a person is gay or not, does this apply to other things as well? Is there something in our genetic make-up when we are born, that can predict if we are a murderer, or theif?
That's the trouble I have with this. It's the being born with it and such. If people are born gay, than they must also be borned murderers, abusers, liers, etc....where do you draw the line? All of these in my opinon are about the choices that we make in life. We practice our free will every single day of our lives. I feel that the same goes for being gay. Regardless of the cons as you said, people still choose this.
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For the love of god. You choose to kill. You choose to be a liar. You do not choose to get an erection when Brad Pitt wears leather pants. It's biological. Homosexuality is not behavior. It is a biological predispostion for same-sex attraction. You still classify homosexuality as behavior. It's not. Lying and violence are a result of environmental factors. We LEARN to lie. We LEARN violence. We don't learn to get an erection when a male pheromone is in the air. Which is odorless.
Sorry dude. But ya lost. The evidence above far outweighs your own bias and assumptions which is all it is. Food for thought. (I'm assuming you are a heterosexual male). Did you choose to be straight? Did you wake up one day and say I'm gonna be sexually attracted to women because I say so? When you see an attractive/erotic image of a woman, do you choose your penis to become erect, your hormones to race, and your central nervous system to prepare for human sexual response? HomoSEXUALITY. The key word is sexual attraction. Not behavior. You can choose to date the ugliest and skanest woman in the planet. However you cannot make your body and your subconscious not react to a erotic image of a woman. It's not a choice. All logical reasoning points in the other direction. Look below. If you're straight, your pupils will dilate, your breathing will become labored and your crotch may begin to harden. It's a sexual response. That's what homosexuality is. Sexual attraction. NOT behavior. Odds are you looked at the picture before reading this.
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Mar 24th, 2005 05:42 AM
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