In a word: Wow. Upon seeing your Maddie art, I had to go check out your website, and I must say you are truly talented. I certainly look forward to seeing more of your work in the future, especially of Nate. Words alone can't describe him.
Remember, AoA Mr. Sinister used Jean Grey's DNA to create Nate, unlike Cable who was Maddie's biological son. Granted that the two women share identical genetic templates, but the similiarities end there. Nate admitted to Jean Grey in X-Man #25 that he looked to her as a mother figure, or at least wanted to, while Madelyne was more a companion and friend. I can't see them ever having children or anything of that nature, but Nate really helped Madelyne recover from the pain she felt over Scott's betrayal and taught her that not every man saw her as just a cheap replacement for Jean Grey. In turn, Maddie helped Nate recover from his pain over Forge's death and the 'stranger in a strange land' syndrome he was suffering from, especially early on. Quote from X-Man #7:
Nate: Madelyne, I... I'm not real good with sayin' stuff... but ever since... I don't know... you make me... smile.
Madelyne: I know. There's something... special... between us, isn't there?
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"Oh, I don’t know about that… you just have to be born lucky, I guess." - Longshot, to Domino, X-Force #59
Thanks! Thank you very much Well, how did you manage to find your way with all these Hungarian stuff over there, on my website?
So I guess you found my X-Man picture, too. There are some Hungarian words in it, too - soon I will change them to English.
Yeah, I know all about these. But a person who has almost the same genetic make-up as you, well that person is generally called a relative, at least, even if not mother exactly.
I agree. They were a lovely couple for sure. It's a shame both of them died (those Marvel guys killed all my favorit characters...) That's why I don't want to read the X-Man's last couple of issues. This way I still feel like they're just fine
(Huh, my English sucks... I'd rather just make more pictures and stop talking )
Well, I'm no stranger to foreign-language websites. It's largely a matter of trial and error, and the fact that your art was conveniently linked as the top link to the left helped matters too.
Madelyne referred to Jean as her sister on occasion. Following that train of thought, that would make Maddie Nate's aunt, if I am not mistaken.
There are certain things that I refuse to acknowledge, and that's one of them. It's not that she died in and of itself. It was how she died. Perhaps the single worst piece of writing I've read in a Marvel comic, with the possible exception of the Mojoworld writeoff and the concept of Onslaught.
I can guarantee you your English is better than my Hungarian. Although truth be told, your English is superior to many Americans who grew up speaking English alone. Of course, I've learned this is something of a trend. Eh, don't mind me, just one of my tangents.
__________________
"Oh, I don’t know about that… you just have to be born lucky, I guess." - Longshot, to Domino, X-Force #59
It's an interesting query as to which character received worse treatment, Madelyne or Psylocke. On the one hand, Psylocke survived a duel with the likes of the Shadow King and being gutted by Sabertooth, only to be killed by Vargas, in what was a rather blatant attempt to make Vargas look more impressive by killing off a classic character, much like they tried to make Holocaust look like more than a blithering idiot by massacring Avalon.
Madelyne, on the other hand, was retconned right out of existence. After ripping continuity to shreds by writing her as dependent on Nate's energy after all, they add insult to injury with... Queen Jean. Compared to this witch of poor writing, even blunders such as ignoring Longshot's existence for a decade looks tame (another rant entirely).
It's really hard to hate the people who create the characters you love so, but when they take the good names, dignity, and lives of said characters in one bold stroke of poor judgment, something inside you wonders. Oh well, that's what alternate-reality fanfiction and the like is for.
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"Oh, I don’t know about that… you just have to be born lucky, I guess." - Longshot, to Domino, X-Force #59
Not even talking about that half of the links doesn't work yet
Yeah. It wasn't enough for them killing her once, they made her die once again, in a lot worse handled way...
About the INFERNO: quite a lame ending! They laid all the blame on Sinister for messing up with Maddie's life, and they let Cyclops live on neglectfully. Like it wasn't him who betrayed Madelyne - which drove her to the hands of S'ym and N'astirh. I hated that ending. Maybe it was made this way because the story was written by not only Claremont but other writers as well. I'm sure Claremont would came up with something ...umm.. more complex finishing. I wonder if Scott ever thought about Madelyne after she died.
(I haven't read the whole X-Factor series, but I heard there was an issue in which they cremated Madelyne, so he might have)
Was her second death even worse then this?
I'm picking up the X-Man backissues right now, so I don't really know what happened to her in the second half of the series. But it seems like I won't be happy reading them
so nate is gay and he like forge???????????they killed psylock,for good? i though was one of those i died but :Í´ll BE BACK! deaths..........
comon join me paola i already have 5 friends for a rampage on marvel office, someone discontent with spiderman future, gwens past, psilock death, avenger dissolution, let get to the guns and VIVE LA LIBERTEE!!!
Inferno was more or less a hastily-cobbled together attempt to get Maddie out of the way. The decision to resurrect Jean Grey has been a much-maligned one, and not without reason. Unfortunately, no matter how marketable the decision may have been, the writers had Madelyne in the way of Jean's return. Hence, Inferno. I totally agree that Sinister was used as the scapegoat of the story. Blame on the guy with the red diamond on his forehead. In fact, in X-Factor #39, Archangel even comes out and accuses Sinister of 'corrupting Scott'. Personally, I agreed with Alex's view on the matter - another reason why I was so disappointed when Havok never met up with Madelyne again during the X-Man era.
I can only speak from the issues I have read, and maybe I missed one where he pours his heart out in grief, but from what I have seen every indication would point to Scott more than happily burying Madelyne and forgetting she ever was after a few tears shed at the end of Inferno. In X-Man #25, Jean Grey even has the audacity to say of the matter: "Scott's finally put that... demon to rest." I don't care how they try to shift the blame to poor Sinister, Scott is and was the sole reason why Madelyne was driven nearly to madness during Inferno - and why when she returned in the pages of X-Man she was paranoid, hasty, and vengeful. It can all be traced back to one phone call in the pages of X-Factor #1. Hell, he didn't even show up for the birth of his own son!
You could say that. [SPOILER - highlight to read]: In X-Man #25 Madelyne clearly reveals that she is no longer dependent on Nate Grey for life. This could not be made any more clear through the actions of everyone in this issue. However, in X-Man #52, Nate was attacked by the Strikesquad Gauntlet, and during the battle Madelyne was buried alive by one of them. She managed to escape by teleporting but emerged withered and spent, ostenistibly because the battle had taken so much out of Nate, despite the earlier revelation. She decided her current state derailed any plans she might have had, and she left.
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Alas, if only it could have ended on such an ambiguous note. However, in X-Man #67, we are introduced to "Queen Jean." Anyone who has ready any of my posts knows of my fervent hatred for Queen Jean. She is quite simply the worst plotline device ever conceived in a long line of bad plotline devices. What's Queen Jean's deal? Well, supposedly she's an evil Jean Grey from an alternate universe, and she was stalking Nate to use his power for her own ends or something of that nature. Fine and dandy. However, for completely unknown reasons, the writers decided to undo everything in previous issues. In the words of "the Queen" herself: "I replaced your Maddie several moths ago." In other words, none of the former issues of Madelyne slowly recovering from her trauma and blossoming once more mattered, because it was just some crazy broad from an alternate dimension pretending to be Maddie. And it gets better. Writer Stephen Grant has been quoted on some message boards with Madelyne having been impersonated by "Queen" Jean ever since X-Man #5, meaning that Madelyne's entire X-Man appearance was just a lie.
Okay, I'm fine. Really. Sorry if I get a little long-winded, it's just intensely frustrating to see characters with such potential written off in such absurd ways while mainstay bores like Cyclops and Wolverine bask in the joys of being included in every game, movie, and toy package. Feh. I apologize if my revelations shattered any hopes, although I suppose it's possible that Marvel might do something brilliant like undo everything from X-Man #45 on up.
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"Oh, I don’t know about that… you just have to be born lucky, I guess." - Longshot, to Domino, X-Force #59
Last edited by Paptimus on Nov 9th, 2004 at 03:03 AM
Hey, yours is a fine way to hide spoilers in a reply. I've never ever seen the like
Altough I can't read them right now because I'll get the mentioned issues in a couple of weeks now
Are you joking? They are fun to read!
Yeah, but it was built up so precisely, with resolving all the mysteries step by step... and Madelyne was sooo cool all the way, I liked it much. Except the ending. That just sucks...
Hmmm... That's how I thought it was, too. It's so sad
Well, she will reappear in 'X-Men: The End' so I doubt there would be a chance to bring her back somewhere else permanently.
The cover to 'X-Men: The End' #5 is quite a fine work otherwise
But X-Man were killed off permanently, and never ever had reappeared since then, so they could bring him back somewhere in the future... (unfortunately I can't see any chance to it either)
That little Maddie-image you posted earlier, it's sooooo cute
Thanks for all the Madelyne images. I too am fond of Madelyne, especially of X-Man era Madelyne. While I am glad to see Madelyne (or a facsimile thereof) back in X-Men: The End, she's not the tragic, haunting figure from X-Man, but instead (from what I saw at the end of the issue) the big haired cackler from Inferno.
Also, you show great taste in mecha shows via your Icon. I desperately await my Zeta Gundam DVD boxed set, on Pre-order!
Hi! I’m another Madelyne-obsessive who’s just discovered KMC Forums and this thread. Indulge me while I do a long catching-up post.
That’s the retconned version. Here’s what Scott said at Jean Grey’s cenotaph in Uncanny #275 (quoted from memory):
“I loved you, Jean. I love Madelyne. I’m glad she’s not you.”
QUOTE=2674774]Originally posted by Paptimus Quote from X-Man #7:
Nate: Madelyne, I... I'm not real good with sayin' stuff... but ever since... I don't know... you make me... smile.
Madelyne: I know. There's something... special... between us, isn't there?[/QUOTE]
Yes. Friendship can be very special.
I wish they’d developed editor Glenn Greenberg’s concept of the Maddie-Nate relationship as part gadfly, part big sister, part demon on his shoulder.
At least Psylocke wasn't turned into an infanticidal madwoman.
Louise Simonson could easily have let the realization of her baby’s peril jolt Madelyne back to sanity. Then she could have died heroically saving him; or she could have survived, divorced Scott, and taken custody of Nathan Christopher, leaving Scott free to marry Jean. (That would also have solved the problem of aging a child without aging the parent.)
But I guess they felt they had to vilify Maddie to vindicate Scott. Had Inferno been written after the decanonization of “Saint Scott,” Maddie might have fared better.
You didn’t miss much, and Scott didn’t grieve much. X-Factor #40 showed the team walking away from Madelyne’s funeral. Scott (or was it Hank?) wondered how they’d explain to little Nathan Christopher that they saved the world but couldn’t save his mother.
Scott’s epitaph for his first wife was “Maddie was a lie!” spoken in Cable #6. He also said that the baby should have been his and Jean’s. At the end of Cable #8 Cable asked Scott to “tell me …about my mother.” We never did learn exactly what Scott told his son. However, in Uncanny #310 Cable berated Scott for having “dumped” him in the future, but said nothing about Scott’s having dumped him and his mother in Alaska.
At the end of Cable #44, Scott asked Nathan, "Is there any thing that can be done for her (Madelyne)?" Cable replied, "Only what we do for each other. A hand offered in friendship...or a strong set of shoulders to lean on." Of course, Scott never lifted a finger to offer Maddie that hand or that shoulder.
I’m glad “Madelyne’s” appearance in X-Men: The End doesn’t preclude her reappearance in 616 continuity. Heck, even some show of sincere remorse on Scott’s part for how he treated her would be a victory. So would having someone speak for Madelyne as Beast spoke for Jean in New X-Men #156: “You were married to her, Scott. Which implies certain commitments.” Whether Madelyne was Jean’s clone is irrelevant. What matters is that she was Scott’s wife, and a real person whatever her genesis.
__________________ The Bee--with honey and stinger.
"I am not just Jean Grey's clone. I'm Madelyne Pryor--the one and only."--X-Man #30
Last edited by Anodyne on Mar 8th, 2005 at 05:41 AM
hellO! ummm....ah k...i have close to no idea about madelyn pryor....so i WILL read all these posts eventually to get educated...BUT....i wanna know...where did she find the goblins?
They found her. S'ym approached Madelyne in what she *thought* was a dream. By playing on her anger towards the husband who'd left her for Jean Grey, he tricked her into binding herself to his version of reality.
N'Astirh contacted her via a computer, with an offer to recover her kidnapped baby for her. Madelyne accepted: she'd vowed to get her son back "no matter how long it takes or what it costs."
Most of the other demons/goblins came from a dimension called Limbo. S'ym and/or N'astirh tricked a mutant sorceress called Magick into opening a path from Limbo to Earth.
__________________ The Bee--with honey and stinger.
"I am not just Jean Grey's clone. I'm Madelyne Pryor--the one and only."--X-Man #30
Nice choice of name The X-Men & Alpha Flight (The Gift) story is one of my favorits Madelyne had some fun in that story at last.
She wanted to help people so much. She could do that when she turned into Anodyne, and later she joined that flying doctors-thing or what. It's sad there wasn't anyone who wanted to help HER Only Havok, maybe, that's why he is my second favorit character right next to Nate Grey
Thanks for the infos otherwise!
One question: do you know what happened to Madelyne in X-Men The End #6? I haven't got that issue yet and I can't wait to see it
(sorry for my bad English )
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Last edited by Emtrexx on Mar 10th, 2005 at 07:00 PM
KMC Community Forums
In a word: Wow. Upon seeing your Maddie art, I had to go check out your website, and I must say you are truly talented. 
I certainly look forward to seeing more of your work in the future, especially of Nate. Words alone can't describe him.
Nov 6th, 2004 11:25 PM
Attachment: 
Well, how did you manage to find your way with all these Hungarian stuff over there, on my website? 
) That's why I don't want to read the X-Man's last couple of issues. This way I still feel like they're just fine 
)
Compared to this witch of poor writing, even blunders such as ignoring Longshot's existence for a decade looks tame (another rant entirely).
