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The US Electoral College
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Ushgarak
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My point, SS, is that the proportional vote size of the EC seems badly related to the number of people eligible to vote in it, and that is poor quality franchise.


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2004 09:50 PM
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Mr. Sandman
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quote:
Originally posted by Silver Stardust
The electoral college, to be perfectly blunt, sucks ass. It really does make it so that if you don't live in a swing state, it doesn't matter if you vote or not. I live in Illinois, which is a given state -- it always goes Democratic. I voted for Kerry, but really it didn't matter if I did or not, he still would have won my state. And good luck if you want to vote Republican here...

"As for the apparent unfairness of how many votes each State gets in the College... that certainly is an issue and I have never been able to work it out."

The EC is set up so each state has the same number of votes as they have seats in the House and Senate. There's 435 people in Congress, and 438 in the EC. Since each state has 2 Senators and at least 1 Rep, they have at least 3 votes in the EC, and DC also has three votes in the EC. But this is really kinda unfair to the larger states; as has been demonstrated in the 2000 election, a candidate can lose the popular vote and still win the election, because of the EC, by sweeping the smaller states. It's an old and outdated system that I think needs to be done away with.


Way to smack the shit out of that. 100% correct.

The EC blows chunks of ass and paper. It shouldn't exist anymore.


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2004 10:21 PM
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Peach
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Ush -- exactly, that's the main reason why I don't like it.

Arachnoidfreak -- I had government class during the last half the school year last year, so this is all still fresh in my mind. Good thing, too.


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2004 10:46 PM
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Ushgarak
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... and so my question was about me not understanding WHY that is. Understanding the theory you posted, why has it worked out that the proportions of people to votes are so at odds?


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2004 10:48 PM
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Peach
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Something about equal representaion, they want it to be fair for everyone *shrugs* though how it's fair is beyond me, honestly...and I live in this country...


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2004 10:50 PM
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Ushgarak
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Err... can you explain the theory of how making the votes DISproportionatee to the population creates equal representation?

I am sure that cannot be right; that's just saying red is blue, and that cannot have been intentional for that reason.


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2004 10:54 PM
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Peach
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I've got no idea how they came to this conclusion. I think it was something along the lines that if they didn't do it this way, and it WAS purely proportional to population, the states with larger populations would completely dominate the states with smaller populations. But since the EC is set up the way it is, the exact opposite is true; states with smaller populations can totally dominate the states with larger populations.


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2004 10:57 PM
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Ushgarak
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The more alarming bit is that states with near EQUAL populations seem to have significantly differing EC votes.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2004 10:59 PM
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Creechuur
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"You know you don't live in a democracy?"

Youre absolutely right, for once. America is not a democracy. Its a Democratic Republic. Basically, we all get a say, but then our chosen representatives are supposed to act for our interests based on what we say.

The real problem is that most politicians (of ANY party) worry more about money and political correctness than serving the peoples interests like theyre supposed to.

I may be wrong Ush, but I don't think Electoral numbers are based solely on population but also how dense that population is and what the states economy and imports/exports are and all that.

For instance, Oregon and Washington might have similar populations, but Washington has Microsoft and Starbucks, so they get more Electorla votes because theyre providing more for the economy. Again, I could be completely wrong...


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2004 11:07 PM
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Peach
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ARG my reply just got wiped out, so let's try this again.

I actually just looked up state populations and EC votes to compare, and I found very few instances of that. The biggest difference I spotted was between Illinois and Michigan -- Illinois has about 2.5 million more people and 4 more electoral votes. We actually used to have 22 votes instead of 21, but California stole on of them.

The funny thing about Illinois, is that the state nearly always goes Democratic; like I said, good luck voting here if you're a Republican. But in actuality, it's Chicago that makes the state Democratic. The further you get from Chicago, the more Republicans there are. So I live in a Democratic state that's really not. It's kinda weird.


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2004 11:13 PM
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Peach
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quote:
Originally posted by Creechuur
For instance, Oregon and Washington might have similar populations, but Washington has Microsoft and Starbucks, so they get more Electorla votes because theyre providing more for the economy. Again, I could be completely wrong...


Actually, Washington has nearly twice the population of Oregon.


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2004 11:15 PM
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GABRIEL05
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quote:
Originally posted by Silver Stardust
ARG my reply just got wiped out, so let's try this again.

I actually just looked up state populations and EC votes to compare, and I found very few instances of that. The biggest difference I spotted was between Illinois and Michigan -- Illinois has about 2.5 million more people and 4 more electoral votes. We actually used to have 22 votes instead of 21, but California stole on of them.

The funny thing about Illinois, is that the state nearly always goes Democratic; like I said, good luck voting here if you're a Republican. But in actuality, it's Chicago that makes the state Democratic. The further you get from Chicago, the more Republicans there are. So I live in a Democratic state that's really not. It's kinda weird.


Oregon and Washington are like that.


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2004 11:15 PM
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Peach
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quote:
Originally posted by GABRIEL05
Oregon and Washington are like that.


No, not really. Oregon has 3.something million people and 7 votes, while Washington has 6 million people and 11 votes.

(though I don't know what I posted that you're saying they're like that about...I'm assuming it's about population and EC votes)


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2004 11:19 PM
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Mr. Sandman
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quote:
Originally posted by Silver Stardust
Ush -- exactly, that's the main reason why I don't like it.

Arachnoidfreak -- I had government class during the last half the school year last year, so this is all still fresh in my mind. Good thing, too.


I have government right now. Coincidence...? I think so.


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2004 11:27 PM
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GABRIEL05
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quote:
Originally posted by Silver Stardust
No, not really. Oregon has 3.something million people and 7 votes, while Washington has 6 million people and 11 votes.

(though I don't know what I posted that you're saying they're like that about...I'm assuming it's about population and EC votes)


No I meant as soon as you leave the seattle metro. area, it's all republicans


that was confusing though right?


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2004 11:27 PM
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Peach
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Gotcha.


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2004 11:28 PM
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Peach
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quote:
Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
I have government right now. Coincidence...? I think so.


Heh...

I LOVED gov't class. It was really a very cool class. I was interested in politics before I took it, but after being in that class politics just became huge and a really big deal for me.


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2004 11:30 PM
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Mr. Sandman
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I hated politics before Government class. I don't like much more now, but at least I understand it and it's importance.


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2004 11:31 PM
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Peach
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It kinda scares me, though...how so few people in the US know anything about the government and how it works and politics...I mean, I don't know about other states, but in Illinois you can't graduate high school unless you take and pass government. They try to make sure that people are educated about this, and yet there's still so many people who are completely clueless.


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2004 11:34 PM
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Mr. Sandman
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So does New York. Maybe that's why we're democrats? Education rocks.


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Old Post Nov 3rd, 2004 11:52 PM
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