Gender: Male Location: Right below you tossing gernades;
ur right. imma try to break it down as best as i can
speed: goku is really fast especially w/ his teletransportation. but even w/ this he cannot reach light speed. on the other hand, superman prime can go past light speed practically traveling through dimensions.
winner: superman
strength: we do not know how strong goku really is, but in dbz he did not struggle much putting 40 tons on both his legs and his arms (but i remember goku might have struggled A BIT). however, superman prime can lift a minimum of 40 BILLION tons (i read this somewhere, but i might be wrong). if that is not enough proof to speculate who is stronger, superman can practically juggle planets.
winner: superman
durability: goku is able to take devistating direct hits and still come back for more. but just like any human, you can puncture his flesh and is vulnerable to heat such as lava and a massive ki blast. superman can fly through the cores of stars and can survive nove sized explosions and coming out harmless. if goku were to throw his greatest kamehameha it would pretty much be useless.
winner: superman
fighting skills: goku has A LOT of martial arts training by various trainers (kami-sama, kai-o-sama, etc). but what are fighting skills against someone who is stronger, faster, and much more durable? superman also has his share of training. if someone can remember when superman had his training, post, because i know he did at one point i just forgot =[ because i remember him training over a thousand year period or something
winner: undetermine (but martial arts on superman is pretty much out of the picture so i'll give it to superman anyway)
overall winner: Superman Prime
Last edited by StaT1c on Mar 1st, 2005 at 12:49 AM
Gender: Male Location: Right below you tossing gernades;
what are you talking about? if you still think you're right, i feel very sorry for you. please come up w/ something more descriptive and evitable next time to try to prove your points. thank you =]
peace
Last edited by StaT1c on Mar 1st, 2005 at 12:59 AM
Are we forgetting that at the end of GT a Super Saiyan 4 Goku merged with the black star Dragon Balls and ascended beyond that level. He'd murder Supes once he found out Supes was playing for keeps.
The only reason Goku really got beat down in the cartoon was because:
A) His character is written to be naive and always try to see the good in people (even the blood thirstiest villain bent on destroying the universe).
B) He ALLOWS fights to drag out to see the full potential in his opponents because he's actually a blood hungry warrior that was dropped on his head as a kid. He's sadistic if you really think about it.
C) Goku has beaten characters that destroy planets with beams from their pinkies and entire galaxies with blasts from their butt cracks. Kid Buu or SS4 Baby Vegeta would have killed Supes.
Goku has instant transmissioned to alternate dimensions (the Otherworld Tournaments and Death Dimensions) and fights at high level martial practitioner mastery at light speeds, plus he has undeniable will. If an ascended Goku (past SS4 with the absorbed dragon balls) hits Supes with a kamehameha increased by his keoken attack level 10 or up, at that power level, Supes is dead. All the sunbathing he's done over the centuries is not going to matter.
And there is always the fact that Vegeta wouldn't allow anyone to kill Kakarot besides himself, so they'd fuse and become ascended Gogeta.
First how can you use Gokou w/dragonballs when there is no canon evidence of his power? Same with Superman Prime. Those two are out.
And Superman don't fight people that can destroy planets? Darkseid's Omega Beams can blow up planets, and Supes has held them back with his laser vision.
Not one person besides Freeza in Z that Gokou has beaten alone. Even during Baby saga...which I don't even consider GT canon anyways cause its so full of holes, and not made by Akira....Gokou needed help to defeat Vegeta as Golden Monkey.
Gokou does not move light speed. If he could he wouldn't need IT which is 99% light speed. He cannot punch that fast whereas Supes can punch light speed.
Superman was trained by Wonder Woman plus knows more martial arts then even Batman, and has 100,000 years of fighting experience.
Gokou would never use the Dragonballs or Kryptonite in a fight, and if you bring Vegeta in this I can bring Martian Manhunter who is argueably stronger then Supes plus alot better powers like telepathy, and able to wipe minds. Even without MM Supes could kick Gogeta's butt for the same reasons he can kick Gokou's.
At most Gokou can lift at least a million tons....Supes can lift 40 billion at least.
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
I thought Prime was the old, experienced, golden Superman.
Regular Supes would get served by SS4 Goku going all out.
Prime would get served by the ascended Goku that merged with the black star dragon balls. Akira derived or not, it happenned in GT continuity. Goku absorbed Shenron (the Eternal Dragon)'s powers to "alter reality". The dragons can alter time and space as well, plus Goku is beyond death, all he does is gain a halo when he 'dies' and he'd keep fighting.
People mistake being 'stronger' with being a better fighter. Goku is a far better fighter than Supes, and can use all of his ablilities in conjunction for maximum effect. He lives to fight. That's all he does, and what he was bred for.
Superman going all out would not beat Goku going all out.
Superman is faster, stronger, more durable, smarter, more powers, better fighter, and nicer then Gokou is.
(((Goku cant beat Superman, and Im sick of hearing people who know nothing about Superman say he can.
People always call in fusion, or SSJ4 Goku at his strongest, so why not use Superman at his strongest? Superman Prime has been living in the SUN for 15,000 years, and he has the Green Lantern ring, the Universe's Most Powerful weapon. By that time, Supes is no longer hurt by Kryptonite, he has absorbed so much solar energy that he cannot be hurt by anything other than a psychic attack (psychic attacks only give him headaches), and the Green Lantern ring is limited only by willpower in what it can do.
Or how about Pre-Crisis Superman? Who is this? The early version of Superman, who had his powers cut back during the Crisis on Infinite Earths. Heres some samples of his powers:
Goku can blow up a planet? Superman once juggled planets.
Goku has instant transmission? The Flash can run over 8 times the speed of light, and Superman barely lost to him in a footrace. That means that Superman can move at around 7.7 times the speed of light. Goku's instant transmission is only 99% speed of light.
Superman once nearly outflew the barrier of creation.
He is so fast, and his senses are so sharp, that while talking to Lois Lane, he heard aliens in another galaxy needing help, went there, helped them, and came back, and Lois didnt even notice he had left.
His voice alone can shatter mountains.
His heat vision can repel Darkseid's Omega Effect, which can destroy planets.
Should I go on? Yep.
Superman closed a black hole with his bare hands.
He once used his superbreath to extinguish a star about to go nova.
He sneezed in outer space, and his super breath obliterated an uninhabited solar-system. The whole thing.
In February 1954, Superman withstands the explosion of a hydrogen bomb, (Superman #87)
In June 1958, while relaxing at his Fortress of Solitude, Superman defeats a great robot he has built in a game of super-chess, despite the fact that the robot - which possesses a super-electronic brain - can think and play with the speed of lightning and plans a million moves at once.
By 1957, Superman is able to hurl an uninhabited Planet through space (Superman #110) Both Pre-Crisis Superman and Superboy have been known to move planets without external assistance. For reference, consider the earth an average sized planet. The earth weighs in at 5.972 sextillion (5,972,000,000,000,000,000,000) metric tons.
Superman is impervious to ki attacks. There are ki users in the DCU, and they do not affect Superman.
Goku trying to use Kryptonite on Superman. Goku wont. Just for comparison, he gave Cell a senzu bean before sending his own son in against Cell. He wont figure out Superman's weakness anyway. Of note: Green K is not an instant kill on the Man of Steel. Superman was recently injected with liquid K (I know, I know, Kryptonite is a mineral, I dont write this stuff) and was still able to use his powers.
Goku blowing up the sun. Goku wont, he's too good to intentionally kill everyone on Earth, just to win a fight. He would rather sacrifice himself than risk destroying the earth. Plus, Superman has enough solar energy stored up, and can exist in space long enough, that the destruction of the sun would be more of a problem for Goku than Superman.
Goku trying to gather the Dragonballs. He doesnt have time, because Superman is so much faster, Goku doesnt have time to gather all the balls, and doesnt have time to make a wish. Also, everybody knows how much he loves a fight, and how its often his downfall.
Goku using the Genki Dama. No. Goku doesnt have time to summon one up because of Superman's speed. Besides, the Spirit Bomb doesnt work on those pure of heart.
Superman doesnt know martial arts. Wrong. Superman knows many forms of martial arts, and how to neutralize them, and he has thousands of years of combat experience. ))
Taken from another forum...but it's just easier then typing it out..
In Superman Man of Steel #66, he once again acted as an effective shield, protecting cities around the world by blocking numerous "atom-smashing" force beams with his body. At one point he had 6 such beams trained on him simultaneously.
In Adventures of Superman #581, Superman allowed Adversary, a powerful magical foe, to hit him as hard as he could, without retaliation. Superman was literally punched halfway across the planet- from Metropolis, he literally landed in China- without any injury or loss of consciousness
But forget about being punched across the planet to China, how about through the planet to China? In Superman #181, Superman and Bizarro (his magically-created, brain damaged, "imperfect" duplicate) switched bodies. Superman (in Bizarro's body) punched Bizarro (in Superman's body) completely through the Earth and out the other end. Bizarro (in Superman's body) was slammed in through the ground in Metropolis and came out two panels later in China. He was shown ripping straight through the Earth?s crust, mantle, and core, and coming out on the other side of the planet. Superman's body was fully conscious and completely unharmed by the blow (Bizarro was smiling as usual).
In Man of Tomorrow #13, Superman harmlessly shrugged off a blast from Orion's Astro-Harness that blasted him across the planet from the North Pole to India.
Action Comics # 762: Superman harmlessly shrugged off a blow from the magical demon Etrigan. The blow actually knocked Superman from Earth's surface all the way to the moon (239,000 miles), a distance that is about 10 times the diameter of the Earth. Superman was virtually unfazed. In this issue he also shrugged off magical demon-fire (which he did previously in Action #589), and his super-lungs harmlessly inhaled the demon's magical gases.
In Superman/Doomsday: Hunter/Prey, Superman survived, at ground zero, a blast equal to "a million nuclear bombs" (according to the energy being Waverider). The explosion was caused by the destruction of the power generator for the entire planet of Calaton; the energy was drawn from the planetary core. Superman did not suffer any physical damage, but was momentarily rendered inert, and stated that he felt concussed. He then got up and boxed a little more with Doomsday, who also survived the blast.
In Adventures of Superman #478, as part of the Time and Time Again storyline, Superman survived- without so much as batting an eye- the nuclear destruction of the entire moon in the year 2995. The moon had been lined with sufficient nuclear devices to disintegrate it in one shot. When the moon was obliterated, Superman was actually within the moon (structures had been built beneath the surface of the moon). He did not suffer any harm and did not lose consciousness.
Superman's ability to survive immersion in the sun is well documented by now. In Adventures of Superman #480, Superman survived immersion in the sun for the first time, but with great difficulty. This was actually a RED sun at the time, due to the Eradicator's interference. In both the Superman: Last God of Krypton one shot and Superman Man of Steel #50, Superman survived immersion in the outer layers of the Earth's yellow sun enjoyably, received extra power from the sun, and effortlessly escaped the sun?s gravitational pull. Furthermore, in both Action Comics # 782 and Superman Man of Steel #64, Superman survived the core of the sun without any problems. The pressure at the core of the sun is equal to 250 billion Earth atmospheres.
In JLA #41, Superman absorbed the energy of the Mageddon Warhead, a device capable, at the minimum, of vaporizing half a galaxy. Writer Grant Morrison intended Mageddon to be "the primordial annihilator" capable of literally destroying everything. Visibly distressed by the absorption, Superman still suffered no harm whatsoever, and even smiled afterwards.
Man of Steel #30: Standing on Earth's surface, Superman punched Lobo into orbit and beyond with one uppercut.
Adventure of Superman #473: From Earth, Superman threw an alien space craft clear of Earth?s gravity and into outer space. This craft was larger than an aircraft carrier and over a mile long (a typical aircraft carrier is about a 1/4 of a mile long and weighs about 100,000 tons, so this ship was about 4x that size)
Several events show Superman as a moon-mover. In JLA # 7, as Electro-Superman, he halted the fall of the Moon towards Earth (caused by Neron's magical machinations), then moved the Moon back its proper position in orbit. He later commented that he's more powerful as "regular" Superman. Writer Grant Morrison and artist Howard Porter had originally intended the moon-moving event in JLA #7 be done by "regular" Superman , but DC forced them to use Electro-Supes. This event is butressed by several more. In JLA: The Century War, ancient "alchemical engines" were causing the moon to fall towards the Earth. Superman and Green Lantern took turns holding the moon back against the "geometrically increasing force" that was causing it to fall. Superman got the last "moon-bracing" shift. In Superman Man of Steel #30, Superman grabbed, easily broke the forward movement of, and easily threw in the opposite direction, a space ship the size of a small moon. In JLA # 58, Superman , Wonder Woman and Green Lantern collaborated to tow Earth's moon a distance of 238,900 miles in mere seconds, indicating a fantastic acceleration, and then pulled the moon out of Earth's gravity (which increases its weight tremendously). As he is universally regarded as the JLA's most powerful member, I'm inclined to give Superman more than one-third, and - conservatively - about one-half, the work effort. In the Lex 2000 special, with a single strike, Superman split one of Saturn's moons in half. Saturn's moons are small moons.
Action Comics #782: After emerging from the sun energized, Superman physically pushed WarWorld, (a small, Pluto-sized planet) across the solar system and into a boom tube. WarWorld did engage a "full throttle countermeasure" in resistance Superman?s push. We can see WarWorld's engines (which encompass nearly an entire hemisphere of WarWorld's surface) firing in resistance, to no avail. WarWorld's engines allow WarWorld to travel at faster than light speeds through space, so they generate the power to accelerate a planet beyond light speed. "How is he moving my planet! The Kryptonian does not have that power!" Braniac's disbelief is reasonable since WarWorld's engines had no shortage of power ; WarWorld had just pirated the energy of Imperiex - energy gleaned from the devouring of many galaxies. (Hence Imperiex's reputation as the "Devourer of Galaxies.") Please note that Superman was energized beyond his usual power levels at this time.
Action Comics Annual #7: Fighting in space, Superman successfully resisted the pull from a black hole that had opened up directly below (inches from) his feet. The miniature black hole had been induced by advanced alien (Ht'ros) war technology.
Superman #13: Flew around the equator in a matter of seconds, indicating a speed of well over 1,000,000 mph, or roughly 1350 times the speed of sound.
War of the Gods #4: Superman actually out-raced an energy beam to its target. In JLA: Heavens Ladder, it is stated that Superman can race a photon to its target.
Lex 2000 special: Superman made the trip from Earth to Saturn in well under 4 minutes. By comparison, light takes about 19 minutes to make this trip. He was pissed at the time.
Alone against the Daxamite Lar Gand, (Daxamites are the genetic cousins to, but reputed to be more powerful than, Kryptonians), Superman soundly KO'd Lar
Action Comics Annual #7: Alone, Superman twice defeated alien armadas, each capable of destroying a planet.
Superman #153: Superman took a blast from Imperiex, the beam aforementioned as being able to vaporize a solar system.
Adventures of Superman #477: survives being at ground zero of an imploding sun-eater, followed by a plummet to Earth. KO'd; otherwise OK afterwards.
Adventures of Superman #478: survives the nuclear obliteration of the Earth's moon without batting an eye.
Man of Steel #64, Action Comics #782: goes into the core of a yellow sun.
Hunter/Prey #3: weathers ground zero of the supposed "million nukes" blast on Calaton.
Superman #9: weathers ground zero of a 40 megaton nuke followed by a fall to Earth from outer space. KO'd for a half hour, OK afterwards.
Superman for All Seasons #1 and Trinity #1: impressively endures ground zero nukes without loss of consciousness or injury.
Superman #181: Takes a punch from the magically created Bizarro creature which slams him clear through the Earth, in the ground through Metropolis, through the curst mantle and core and out through China. No injury or loss of consciousness.
Man of Steel #127: takes an island-destroying nuke while sitting in Kryptonite-laced sand. No injury or loss of consciousness.
War of the Gods #4: blocks a magical beam capable of destroying an island (Paradise Island). Fails to completely mitigate the blast's effect - one person dies. Apparently briefly KO'd or at least in great pain as a result; otherwise OK at issue's end.
Adventures #581: takes a punch from a magical being that knocks him clear from Metropolis to China. No injury or loss of consciousness.
Action #762: takes a punch from Etrigan the Demon that sends him from Metropolis to the Moon. No injury or loss of consciousness.
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
KMC Community Forums
Mar 1st, 2005 12:30 AM
MvC2 > You
Oh okay then I'll take it as a compliment, and say thanx
